Alien: Covenant | 5/19/2017 | Who needs mystery?

[a2k]

prometheus sucked giant alien balls.

[Goffe]

prometheus sucked giant alien balls.

it didn't.

[Gazz]

The proto-alien is the result of the black goo that the space jockeys know can produce such creatures hence the sculpture and replicate them as bio-weapons so yes they're experimenting and creating them as well.

 

Sure Prometheus shows the Engineers being capable of creating a form of Alien creature through experimentation (I have no argument there and have said as much more than once), however the results are nothing like we've seen previously or what we would recognise as being traditionally alien. From what we're shown it does not need an Egg to reproduce, instead treating humans as a form of egg to grow facehuggers. It a confused life-cycle, far less natural than the one we're used to.  

 

By the end of Prometheus we do not know that the creature as seen in Alien is a result of experimentation. It's both visually different and the life-cycle is far removed but to go further, the derelict craft in Alien also predates any outbreak that would have occurred on the outpost. The events of Prometheus cannot lead into Alien as they're separated by thousands of years.

 

I would argue from the information we're provided that the alien creatures are certainly focus of Engineer experimentation (much like WY's bio-weapons division would have done if ever they had successfully captured the beast) but Prometheus provides no answers as to the source of the creature itself, it just illustrates once more that it can't be contained or controlled. We're left with the same questions we had when Alien first drew to a close. One of which being whether the alien beast we know an artificially created bio-weapon or a naturally occurring one? We know that the Jockeys use them in some capacity, but we still do not know to what end (terraforming, war, worship or simply just because?). That the figure is seemingly a point of worship leaves me asking more about the Engineers relationship with the xenomorph than any of the Alien films do. 

 

 

That means that the proto-alien is certainly a queen that will lay eggs as a result.

 

Prometheus poses no certainties in that regard, but I too would very loosely argue the Ultramorph is a form of egg-layer (just because). Though again, this does not dispute anything I've mentioned previously and impacts Alien not at all. You seem to think the Ultramorph is a direct lead into Alien, when in fact it is not.

 

Looking beyond the time-issues present (like the derelict craft crash long predating the outbreak on this Engineer outpost), the room in which the urns are kept is surrounded by imagery that suggests the Alien pre-exists long before human contact. It includes murals of an alien looking being (the Deacon/ Ultramoprh/ Whatever) and pictures of the alien eggs we know being presented like gifts by hands that are also completely alien. 

 

 

An offering? Who the fuck knows? It seems important enough to the Engineers they would paint it on their ceiling. 

[Ozymandias]

Sure Prometheus shows the Engineers being capable of creating a form of Alien creature through experimentation (I have no argument there and have said as much more than once), however the results are nothing like we've seen previously or what we would recognise as being traditionally alien. From what we're shown it does not need an Egg to reproduce, instead treating humans as a form of egg to grow facehuggers. It a confused life-cycle, far less natural than the one we're used to.  

 

By the end of Prometheus we do not know that the creature as seen in Alien is a result of experimentation. It's both visually different and the life-cycle is far removed but to go further, the derelict craft in Alien also predates any outbreak that would have occurred on the outpost. The events of Prometheus cannot lead into Alien as they're separated by thousands of years.

 

I would argue from the information we're provided that the alien creatures are certainly focus of Engineer experimentation (much like WY's bio-weapons division would have done if ever they had successfully captured the beast) but Prometheus provides no answers as to the source of the creature itself, it just illustrates once more that it can't be contained or controlled. We're left with the same questions we had when Alien first drew to a close. One of which being whether the alien beast we know an artificially created bio-weapon or a naturally occurring one? We know that the Jockeys use them in some capacity, but we still do not know to what end (terraforming, war, worship or simply just because?). That the figure is seemingly a point of worship leaves me asking more about the Engineers relationship with the xenomorph than any of the Alien films do. 

 

 

 

 

 

Prometheus poses no certainties in that regard, but I too would very loosely argue the Ultramorph is a form of egg-layer (just because). Though again, this does not dispute anything I've mentioned previously and impacts Alien not at all. You seem to think the Ultramorph is a direct lead into Alien, when in fact it is not.

 

Looking beyond the time-issues present (like the derelict craft crash long predating the outbreak on this Engineer outpost), the room in which the urns are kept is surrounded by imagery that suggests the Alien pre-exists long before human contact. It includes murals of an alien looking being (the Deacon/ Ultramoprh/ Whatever) and pictures of the alien eggs we know being presented like gifts by hands that are also completely alien. 

 

 

An offering? Who the fuck knows? It seems important enough to the Engineers they would paint it on their ceiling. 

 

tl;dr version:  It completely ignores the events of the Alien franchise nor does the goo need Engineer or Human DNA to create an Alien(thats like saying facehaggers from the Alien franchise can't create an Alien without a human host and not any host).

[dashrendar44]

Sure Prometheus shows the Engineers being capable of creating a form of Alien creature through experimentation (I have no argument there and have said as much more than once), however the results are nothing like we've seen previously or what we would recognise as being traditionally alien. From what we're shown it does not need an Egg to reproduce, instead treating humans as a form of egg to grow facehuggers. It a confused life-cycle, far less natural than the one we're used to.

 

And that's where my demystification argument you don't seem to acknowledge comes from. Doesn't matter if the design is not exactly the same because Scott deliberately plays on it as a fan service and throwaway bone, "yeah it's kind of Alien but it's not Dat Alien, you know, its like its cousin but not really duh..."

 

It's like saying the Queen Alien is not an alien because it doesn't resemble the first Alien design-wise. That's the same species with the same convoluted lifecycle involving facehugger and humanoid host.

 

What we're shown in Prometheus is that the possible origins of an alien is a black goo that infects humanoid DNA to produce a facehugger so it can inseminate an host giving birth to a queen, from then kicking off the lifecycle we know in Alien/Aliens.(That would tie with the notion of sacrificing to give birth hinted at the beginning of the movie in which an engineer let himself impregnated with an blackgoo/egg/facehugger to generate an Alien Queen)

 

So it's painfully clear that Scott wants to present us his vision of the Alien possible infancy as Engineers are presented as creators.

[Gazz]

tl;dr version:  It completely ignores the events of the Alien franchise nor does the goo need Engineer or Human DNA to create an Alien(thats like saying facehaggers from the Alien franchise can't create an Alien without a human host and not any host).

 

Pretty much. Prometheus is a spin-off of the alien series that beyond providing a living and breathing example of the Space Jockey, provides no new information that would impact the events, characters or creatures in those films. That may change with future films (it probably will), but as of yet pretty much all of the same mysteries remain. 

[a2k]

summary of Fassbender's role in Prometheus

[Deep Wang]

I like Aliens almost has much as Alien, but in some ways I don't see it as a sequel to Alien.  If you really wanna be honest, the Alien in Alien was very smart, and the ones in Aliens jumped in front of machines guns without hesitation.  Also, Aliens turned the Alien into just a species of giant killer space bugs that needed a queen(demystification wink wink) in order to survive or they were fucked.  In Alien, the creature could just morph its victims into eggs, which was a far more disturbing/original concept(I know it was a deleted scene, but it was creepy as fuck and made a dark, twisted, horror movie even better).

 

The aliens were supposed to know what guns do to them if they've never seen it?  They were reasonably intelligent beings.  They were able to cut the power, remember? 

 

Agreed. Aliens is great fun, but it's an action movie through and through. Its Aliens were never scary, as great as the Queen's design was.

 

Aliens is one intense fucking movie.  It might not be "scary" in a traditional sense, but the theatrical cut is one of the most intense and thrilling movies ever made.  The sound of the motion sensor beeping still gives me chills.  

 

I can remember watching it as a kid and the scene when they barricade themselves in as the aliens are getting closer and closer and all you heard was the beeping and them calling off the distance.  

 

"12 meters."

 

"They're right outside the door."

 

"9 meters."

"7"

"6"

 

"That can't be, that's inside the room."

 

Fucking perfection.  

[dashrendar44]

Pretty much. Prometheus is a spin-off of the alien series that beyond providing a living and breathing example of the Space Jockey, provides no new information that would impact the events, characters or creatures in those films. That may change with future films (it probably will), but as of yet pretty much all of the same mysteries remain. 

 

 

Oh Fifield wasn't supposed to mutate into an Alien right?

http://www.ropeofsilicon.com/alternate-cg-effects-from-prometheus-along-with-original-concept-art/

 

You know I can also dig in behind the scenes production stills to prove that Prometheus is actually the explanation as where the Alien creature generates its most known form. There's no need to go back anywhere before for further explanations, every pieces are right there under your nose.

 

But since Scott himself couldn't seem to make up his mind so all the pieces are there but he doesn't assume the Alien connection albeit it was originally a direct Alien prequel and explanation of its origin, that makes little sense as a whole.

Edited June 3, 2014 by dashrendar44

[Ozymandias]

The aliens were supposed to know what guns do to them if they've never seen it?  They were reasonably intelligent beings.  They were able to cut the power, remember? 

 

Wouldn't they know what guns do to them after the incident in the hive?  Tons of them charged and died from the automatic guns at the door Vasquez and Hudson set up later in the movie.

 

I'm not knocking the movie at all, its one of my favorites.  Its just a different movie from Alien in the way that Prometheus is waaaay different from the older films all together.  In Alien, the creature is the "perfect organism", in Aliens they are space bugs.

[kitik]

(That would tie with the notion of sacrificing to give birth hinted at the beginning of the movie in which an engineer let himself impregnated with an blackgoo/egg/facehugger to generate an Alien Queen)

 

Whoa, what? I think you're completely misinterpreting that scene. That scene had nothing to do with an engineer trying to generate an alien queen. That was an engineer trying to generate life on earth.

[dashrendar44]

Whoa, what? I think you're completely misinterpreting that scene. That scene had nothing to do with an engineer trying to generate an alien queen. That was an engineer trying to generate life on earth.

 

You didn't understand at all my post. I said an Engineer sacrificing himself to generate an alien queen that lays down bio-weapons ties to the notion of sacrificing seen in the beginning of the movie. I know the albino dude at the beginning didn't create an alien queen. it's the notion of sacrificing to create something that I'm linking.

Edited June 3, 2014 by dashrendar44

[Dementeleus]

I saw a bunch of posts and clicked here, figuring there'd be news. 

 

[CoolioD1]

whining about prometheus - back in style for summer 2014.

[Deep Wang]

Wouldn't they know what guns do to them after the incident in the hive?  Tons of them charged and died from the automatic guns at the door Vasquez and Hudson set up later in the movie.

 

Yes, but they stopped initially.  Then they went and regrouped and attacked it again.  That shows planning and coordination.

[a2k]

Prometheus, are you seeing this?

[Gazz]

It's like saying the Queen Alien is not an alien because it doesn't resemble the first Alien design-wise.

 

Aliens explicitly sets up the Queen Alien as being the head of the established life-cycle. Prometheus poses no such direct connection to the Alien series.  

 

And not only are all of the creatures in Prometheus vastly different to their Alien counterparts, but the life cycle is far removed with no conceivable point to cross over. You and I may argue that the DEACON/ ULTRAMORPH is capable of egg-laying but who's to say it would lay traditional eggs containing traditional facehuggers considering the vast differences we've seen prior? We simply do not know. It's another question to add to the mounting pile of questions Prometheus asks. You're making assumptions and claiming them fact to hold on to this notion of the great demystification of the Alien series, without acknowledging that pretty much all the same questions Alien posed remain unanswered. Hell, James Cameron's ALIENS explicitly answered more questions than Prometheus.

 

 

 

What we're shown in Prometheus is that the possible origins of an alien is a black goo

 

Now you're talking sense. I would say there's certainly a valid question as to whether or not the Space Jockey's created the Alien creature (through use of the black substance or any other means)? It's a question some have asked since Alien (bar the black goo part obviously). Prometheus doesn't answer that question though, which has been my very point all along.

 

 

 

Oh Fifield wasn't supposed to mutate into an Alien right?

Yeah, I would argue some form of alien hybrid. Who knows what his final form would have been or what he was capable of.

But again, how does this impact the Alien creatures as seen in Alien? Not at all. Why? Because it has no bearing on Alien. Prometheus shows an experimentation gone awry. It doesn't point to the creatures as being the same as we've seen before nor does it declare this experiment to be an origin (despite your many protests otherwise). From everything the film shows us, this is a whole different breed of the creature, created in a lab with vast biological differences that set it apart from the ones we are traditionally used to. And still it manages to bite them in the arse. This is what experimentation with the Alien creature leads to, whether you're a mere human or a space-God.

 

The Alien as we know it exists somewhere in the same universe, their origins and ties to the Space Jockey in Alien still just as much a mystery.

Edited June 3, 2014 by Gazz

[kitik]

You didn't understand at all my post.

 

 

Apparently you didn't understand mine.

 

The engineer at the beginning of the movie was NOT trying to create an alien queen, like you said. He was trying to create life on earth.

[Gazz]

I wouldn't say that the Engineer at the end of Prometheus willingly sacrificed himself for an Egg-Layer (if that's even what the Deacon/Ultramorph is; the film doesn't say). It's a violent affair that the Engineer struggles against every step of the way with horror registering across his face. It has to restrain him in order to impregnate him.

 

 

Edited June 3, 2014 by Gazz

[Hatebox]

 

Aliens is one intense fucking movie. 

 

It is in its own way, but never comes close to the original's claustrophobic bleakness which I'm an admitted sucker for. In fairness it doesn't even try, which is good. We didn't need the same movie twice. Just ask Alien 3.

 

The POV facehugger shot definitely stuck with me though (pun intended).