Weekend Actuals: SPECTRE 70.4M, Peanuts 44.21M. Discuss SPECTRE WWW in here.

[MovieMan89]

2 minutes ago, Water Bottle said:

 

I think the movie isn't such a disappointment to warrant a WWW Thread at least not yet. Just because a movie disappoints you doesn't make it a failure and it's doing as many people expected to perform including Sony. If the movie had opened way lower then I could see the case for a WWW thread.

 

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It has nothing to do with personal expectations. The admission facts of the franchise prove it is a WWW situation. At least DOM. 

[Jayhawk the Hutt]

People are too quick to want/create a WWW thread. It should be reserved for box-office bombs of the highest order. Spectre is absolutely fine. It's making a boatload OS, and it's DOM performance, while likely disappointing, is not a bomb by any means.

[Water Bottle]

2 minutes ago, Water Bottle said:

 

I think the movie isn't such a disappointment to warrant a WWW Thread at least not yet. Just because a movie disappoints you doesn't make it a failure and it's doing as many people expected to perform including Sony. If the movie had opened way lower then I could see the case for a WWW thread.

 

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It has nothing to do with personal expectations. The admission facts of the franchise prove it is a WWW situation. At least DOM. 

So the film doing as expected by the studio and many members of the forum qualifies it for a WWW thread?

Like if meeting expectations is failing then you are setting the bar of success way too high.

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[MovieMan89]

Just now, Jayhawk said:

People are too quick to want/create a WWW thread. It should be reserved for box-office bombs of the highest order. Spectre is absolutely fine. It's making a boatload OS, and it's DOM performance, while likely disappointing, is not a bomb by any means.

I guess if we're defining WWW threads as being strictly for bombs, then I agree it is unwarrented for Spectre. I could sure swear plenty have been done for underperformances though, not just bombs...

[MovieMan89]

1 minute ago, Water Bottle said:

 

So the film doing as expected by the studio and many members of the forum qualifies it for a WWW thread?

 

Like if meeting expectations is failing then you are setting the bar of success way too high.

 

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HA! Some revisionist history. The studio would not have spent 300m+ on the film if they weren't expecting an easy $1b+ WW gross. And as far as this forum goes, I point you to the winter game. All DOM predictions were over 235m and all WW over 900. Most were 275+/1b+. It in no way, shape, or form lived up to the forum's expectations on the whole. It is only the last week or two when tracking looked poor and the reviews came in that everyone lowered expectations. 

[John Marston]

What went wrong thread or not, Spectre is a domestic disappointment. 

[WrathOfHan]

Spectre does not warrant a WWW because of overseas. If it fails to gross 600-700M, then we can blame Sony for making the budget so high.

[Water Bottle]

1 minute ago, Water Bottle said:

 

So the film doing as expected by the studio and many members of the forum qualifies it for a WWW thread?

 

Like if meeting expectations is failing then you are setting the bar of success way too high.

 

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HA! Some revisionist history. The studio would not have spent 300m+ on the film if they weren't expecting an easy $1b+ WW gross. And as far as this forum goes, I point you to the winter game. All DOM predictions were over 235m and all WW over 900. Most were 275+/1b+. It in no way, shape, or form lived up to the forum's expectations on the whole. It is only the last week or two when tracking looked poor and the reviews came in that everyone lowered expectations. 

The film might not reach $235 million because of poor WOM but the opening is fine. Do we really need a WWW BO thread for a movie that has poor legs due to weak WOM? I don't see that creating the discussion needed for a WWW thread.

But as of now, the movie did open to expectations. That's how it was tracking.

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[MovieMan89]

1 minute ago, WrathOfHan said:

Spectre does not warrant a WWW because of overseas. If it fails to gross 600-700M, then we can blame Sony for making the budget so high.

The money spent is ridiculous, but I can't say they were totally unreasonable to let it go that high. There was ZERO reason to expect this film to be grossing under 900m WW like it likely will now. Even if it were trash, the rules of OS gross say it shouldn't have mattered. 

[TalismanRing]

7 minutes ago, WrathOfHan said:

Spectre does not warrant a WWW because of overseas. If it fails to gross 600-700M, then we can blame Sony for making the budget so high.

 

EON made the budget so high.  MGM and SONY begged them to lower it, it's all over the Sony e-mails.   And since EON not only gets a producers fee but a bigger cut on the back end before Sony they'll make their money.

 

Sony figured on a measly $35m profit if the film cost $250-75m and made $1.1b.  It's not making $1.1b and Sony most likely isn't making a profit.

 

Which begs the question.  Why would Sony want to re-up the contract and what studio is gong to be willing to take their place under the same terms?

 

 

Edited November 9, 2015 by TalismanRing

[Jayhawk the Hutt]

11 minutes ago, MovieMan89 said:

I guess if we're defining WWW threads as being strictly for bombs, then I agree it is unwarrented for Spectre. I could sure swear plenty have been done for underperformances though, not just bombs...

Yeah I disagree with those. The October thread is kind of the exception I guess because of the unprecedented stream of BO disappointments in a few weeks time. Even then, I kind of disagree with because it was actually one of the biggest Octobers ever with a few real solid hits. But, for example, people making a WWW thread for IS last year was way too premature/not appropriate. (since it made a decent, if underwhelming amount on opening), and it proved it when it had great legs and huge OS #'s. People just want to jump the gun and start throwing out movies where nothing actually went wrong, while WWW threads, IMO, should be reserved for something that's an outright bomb, like F4.

Edited November 9, 2015 by Jayhawk

[redfirebird2008]

Just now, TalismanRing said:

 

EON made the budget so high.  MGM and SONY begged them to lower it, it's all over the Sony e-mails.   And since EON not only gets a producers fee but a bigger cut on the back end before Sony they'll make their money.

 

Sony figured on a measly $35m profit if the film cost $250-75m and made $1.1b.  It's not make $1.1b and Sony most likely isn't make a profit.

 

Which begs the question.  Why would Sony want to re-up the contract and what studio is gong to be willing to take their place under the same terms?

 

I expect they won't. EON will also need to be a lot more friendly to the next studio. WB for instance would never take that sorry deal Sony agreed to. If EON wants a big company to distribute for them and help pay for the production of the movie, they need to let that studio have a bigger share of the revenue.

[Dementeleus]

This is STID all over again. Sony announced they were expecting a high-60s OW. Rival studios said they were expecting a mid-70s OW. It fell right in the middle. This isn't nearly flop-worthy enough to justify a WWW thread.

[MovieMan89]

1 minute ago, Jayhawk said:

Yeah I disagree with those. The October thread is kind of the exception I guess because of the unprecedented stream of BO disappointments in a few weeks time. Even then, I kind of disagree with because it was actually one of the biggest Octobers ever with a few real solid hits. But, for example, people making a WWW thread for IS last year was way too premature/not appropriate. (since it made a decent, if underwhelming amount on opening), and it proved it when it had great legs and huge OS #'s. People just want to jump the gun and start throwing out movies where nothing actually went wrong, while WWW threads, IMO, should be reserved for something that's an outright bomb, like F4.

I can see your point on waiting for legs sometimes before calling disappointment, though it just seems unlikely for legs for Spectre to be anything good with the reviews and the competition. WWW threads however are merely asking what went wrong with a movie's performance. They are not asking why a movie bombed, so I don't think they always need to be exclusively addressing bombs. 

[John Marston]

I agree that a movie that is going to likely make a good profit should not get a WWW thread, how anyone can deny that Spectre is a disappointment at the domestic box office is laughable

[Jayhawk the Hutt]

2 minutes ago, redfirebird2008 said:

 

I expect they won't. EON will also need to be a lot more friendly to the next studio. WB for instance would never take that sorry deal Sony agreed to. If EON wants a big company to distribute for them and help pay for the production of the movie, they need to let that studio have a bigger share of the revenue.

So what studio does everyone think is the favorite for Bond now? I would say WB, but if EON can keep the same deal it has with Sony, I wouldn't move it if I were them. Plus Sony really, really needs Bond.

[Ozymandias]

I still think it has a good shot at 200m, I don't think its gonna tumble in the coming weeks.

[grim22]

Just now, Telemachos said:

This is STID all over again. Sony announced they were expecting a high-60s OW. Rival studios said they were expecting a mid-70s OW. It fell right in the middle. This isn't nearly flop-worthy enough to justify a WWW thread.

 

Everything about this has followed the STID pattern. A 50 year old franchise hits a franchise peak leading to increased expectations for the sequel. The marketing decides to play "Hide the familiar name" followed by the filmmakers doing the same and in the end turns out to not influence the plot one bit. It opens to below rival studio expectations but above the releasing studios number and the forum debates whether a WWW thread is appropriate.

[Jayhawk the Hutt]

3 minutes ago, Telemachos said:

This is STID all over again. Sony announced they were expecting a high-60s OW. Rival studios said they were expecting a mid-70s OW. It fell right in the middle. This isn't nearly flop-worthy enough to justify a WWW thread.

Or AoU. I can't remember if anyone actually created a thread, but many were chomping at the bit to make one.

[grim22]

Just now, Jayhawk said:

So what studio does everyone think is the favorite for Bond now? I would say WB, but if EON can keep the same deal it has with Sony, I wouldn't move it if I were them. Plus Sony really, really needs Bond.

 

It's not just about the Bond franchise. EON and MGM are also looking to invest in the studio's tentpoles which Sony currently has almost none of. Whichever studio gets Bond will do so not just because of their terms on Bond but because of a slate financing deal as well.