Gladiator 2 | November 22, 2024 | DENZEL IS REUNITING WITH RIDLEY?!

[Torontofan]

Its a bad song and it dont fit

simple as that.

 

The race angle is now being used for some people to push personal identity politics

 

 

 

 

[ThomasNicole]

2 minutes ago, Torontofan said:

Its a bad song and it dont fit

simple as that.

 

The race angle is now being used for some people to push personal identity politics

 

 

 

 

I´m not pushing anything, i´m talking to you very respectfully about a broad discussion that you´re writing does start, but clearly you´re not even open to it so fine.

Edited July 11 by ThomasNicole

[Maggie]

I don't listen to rap music, but this song is not that bad. People are complaining because the rap song is modern and the Gladiator trailer needed something classic and classy. It's supposed to be a stylish movie and rap songs are full of cuss words and dirty language. That's the problem imo. But maybe the rap song reflects this movie, who knows

[dudalb]

14 hours ago, Porthos said:

You know, I had a snarky comment about Kid Rock and the promotion for the first Gladiator film all lined up, but I decided to shelve it to address the larger point.

 

****ALMOST ALL MUSIC FOR SWORDS AND SANDALS MOVIES/SHOWS ARE ANACHRONISTIC****

 

Well, nearly all.  Some productions will use period-appropriate instruments in the actual score, but they're few and far between.  But even there it's still using musical movements and styles that are only 1,200 to 1,500 years out of place instead 1,700 to 2,000 years.

 

The sweeping "epic" orchestral sounds that most of the GA associates with these sorts of films?  Well I ain't a music expert but I know enough to know that at best we're talking no sooner than the 1650s and onwards, and quite likely (depending on the instruments and more importantly the style of the music) really looking at the 18th and 19th century (if not actual 20th and 21st century) contributions to the wiiiiiiiide genre that is colloquially known as Classical Music.

 

So in a way, it's kinda funny that people flip out about modern music that is nearly just as anachronistic as the sweeping epics we're used to.

 

Now I'm not stupid.  I know why people flip out.   Even setting aside the newness of the many genres that are modern music, we've been conditioned/become accustomed to this style of music being associated with historical epics.  And I'm also not stupid in that I know that the inclusion of rap just adds another dimension to folks looking to pile on and score cheap points in whatever Culture War Battles they feel like engaging in.  Like, duh, obviously that's a major contributing factor. 

 

At the same time, I do have some amount of sympathy.  Most of what we think of Classical Music is anywhere from 175 (Wagner) to 300+ years old (Bach).  That's pretty ancient (at least when we're getting to the Bach end of the scale)!  At a certain point the difference between 300 years and 1,300 years is meaningless.  It ain't new therefore it doesn't prick sensibilities.  It doesn't stand out.  It doesn't ruin the nebulous notion that is Suspension of Disbelief.

 

But.... c'mon now.  If one minor inclusion of one piece of fairly modern music in one flipping trailer is the difference between this movie succeeding or dying, then this movie was already on extremely shaky ground.  Enough so that literally anything else coming along would have tipped it over instead. 

Point taken. We actully have no idea of what music in Rome sounded like, Miklos Rozsa, the father of what we consider to be "Roman" movie music, fund this out when he was reseraching his first epic film score, 'Quo Vadis",. nearest he could find was some  Greek music dating from the 2nd century AD.

But for some reason an modern orcherstral score fits in, but modern pop songs don't. Modern pop songs take you "out" of the  period in a way that a score does not.

I agree that the use of a modern rap pop song in a trailer can be written off as a ill conceived attempt to sell a movie that probably does not work but if there is such a sequence in the film proper it would not be a good thing. A 'feel" for  a period is what historiacl films are all about.

[Pinacolada]

Given the extreme online nature of the reactions to the trailer, im pretty confident when this plays in packed audiences in front of Deadpool and Wolverine or whatever, the excitement in the room will be palpable. I'm genuinely curious and excited for that, with all the online discourse bullshit out of the way.

 

I think it'll play really well in a theater. I'm sure there will be some "why did they make another Gladiator?" Type reactions from some folks as well. But in general I think people will dig it in theaters. 

 

I'm pro on that trailer but I can concede that I don't think the trailer is cut very well around that music which is the real problem i think. And the whole thing kinda lacks an atmosphere which all great trailers have (think Girl with the dragon tattoo teaser trailer and Logan's first trailer. Hell, in Ridley Scotts case, i think the first Exodus trailer is really great in that department). BUT, at the end after Paul Mescal says "IS THIS HOW ROME TREATS ITS HEROES?!" I think the trailer really ends excitingly. I think it'll get people buzzing. 

Edited July 11 by Pinacolada

[dudalb]

13 hours ago, Insomnia said:

What do you think of the depiction of Caracalla in this (at least from what little we can tell from the trailer)?

He has total maniac written all over him in the trialers.. Which Caracalla pretty much was; he makes Commodus look sane in comparasion.

Besides a Mad Emperor..paritucaly when it is historically accurate....is always a good foil for your hero. Worked well in Gladiator; why not use it again..partiucalry when you will be Historiacally accurate.

In the late 2nd and 3rd centuries Rome has a long run of bad emperors: either weak and inept, brutal dictators or out and out crazies. This is why  you had what historians call'The Crisis of the Third Century" The Roman Empire came very near to falling 175 years before it did.

[dudalb]

12 hours ago, Jaxon5 said:

 

 

Sometimes it just works

 

 

 

Deoends on how seriously you want your film to be taken, really.

I enjoyued Django as a movie, but I found it totally lacking when came to giving you a feel for what life was like in Antebellum America. Tarantino should stick to the 20th century.

[dudalb]

3 hours ago, ThomasNicole said:

But what’s exactly wrong with putting rap songs in historical stuff? It’s just promotional pieces, Gladiator itself is so far of being historically accurate, it just sounds like a stupid excuse. 
 

This is Hollywood entertainment, not a discovery channel documentary. The whole thing is either made up or twisted from the reality. I also think the editing of the trailer isn’t great, but if people see a giant rhino fighting with a man and their breaking point to be pissed about “it’s not realistic historically” is a Jay Z song in a simple trailer than well, they need help. 
 

I have a very strong theory of why some groups feels entitled to the cultural supremacy of the Roman Empire and get easily offended to see other cultural groups mixed with it in 2024, but maybe this is not the place for it, idk.

Because it totally takes you out of  any historical feel the film might have; and I think a feel for the period being portrayed is a vital ingrediant for any good historical film.

I am aware of the Liberties taken with actual history in "GLadiator" but the film does give you a good feel for the period. Like the way the Roman Legionaries in the opening scenes are pretty dirty and ragged looking; the way Legionaries on campaign would have looked.

I would not be offended if other cultures are shown in a fllm on the Roman Empire(the HBO miniseries Rome actually makes the point there were Indians living in Rome at the time of Julius Caesar) but they damn well better be cultures that existed at that period, not modern cultures.

 

[dudalb]

58 minutes ago, Maggie said:

I don't listen to rap music, but this song is not that bad. People are complaining because the rap song is modern and the Gladiator trailer needed something classic and classy. It's supposed to be a stylish movie and rap songs are full of cuss words and dirty language. That's the problem imo. But maybe the rap song reflects this movie, who knows

Well, to be fair, Latin was full of four letter words and obscenties ( someof  our modern obscenties are actually derived from the Latin terms) and lot of the graffiti found on the wall of Pompei is definenlty NSFW. The Miniseries Rome makes this point. The Romans were a lusty lot..and the nobllity was probaby the worst.

But My point is that modern pop of any kind, good or bad, totally takes you out of film that is going for a period feel..which GLadiator 2 will since all of Scott's historiacl films spend a great deal of effort..and money..to get the audience into a period feel.

 

Edited July 11 by dudalb

[jking123]

This hysteria is baffling.  Just outrage for the sake of outrage and i am not discounting right wingers being mad also.

 

Honestly the F1 teaser had a more annoying song inclusion.

[dudalb]

Yeah, the trailer music discussion should be terminated. 

But I protest that all of us who did not like the song included in the trialer are not right wing. Some of just think that modern pop songs do not work well in a period film that takes itself halway seriously (which Glaidator 2 does) and personlly I would objected a much to a Taylor Swift song in the trailer.

[Firepower]

If trailer quality and its reception don't matter, then it's safe to say The Crow reboot has nothing to worry about 

Edited July 11 by Firepower

[ChipDerby]

1 hour ago, Maggie said:

I don't listen to rap music, but this song is not that bad. People are complaining because the rap song is modern and the Gladiator trailer needed something classic and classy. It's supposed to be a stylish movie and rap songs are full of cuss words and dirty language. That's the problem imo. But maybe the rap song reflects this movie, who knows

 

Yeah no other type of music is full of cuss words and dirty language lmao

 

Are you people even reading what you write 

[vale9001]

1 hour ago, dudalb said:

Because it totally takes you out of  any historical feel the film might have; and I think a feel for the period being portrayed is a vital ingrediant for any good historical film.

I am aware of the Liberties taken with actual history in "GLadiator" but the film does give you a good feel for the period. Like the way the Roman Legionaries in the opening scenes are pretty dirty and ragged looking; the way Legionaries on campaign would have looked.

I would not be offended if other cultures are shown in a fllm on the Roman Empire(the HBO miniseries Rome actually makes the point there were Indians living in Rome at the time of Julius Caesar) but they damn well better be cultures that existed at that period, not modern cultures.

 

 

 

Why the "historical feel" of ancient Rome should be recreated only with orchestral music inspired by post 1700 european music?. That's not the sound of Rome too.

 

I think it's about a feeling. I think any genre of song potentially create that kinda of epic feeling a movie like gladiator needs. A trailer It's like a perfume ad, more than anything you sell a feeling and a sensation. I don't think this First trailer intention was to sell a classy movie but to hopped up the audience about the action side an and for most of the generic people the trailer will work. 

[WittyUsername]

This debate has gone on longer than I would’ve ever imagined. 

[dudalb]

42 minutes ago, ChipDerby said:

 

Yeah no other type of music is full of cuss words and dirty language lmao

 

Are you people even reading what you write 

As I pointed out, Latin as used in Anceint Rome was very, very rich in four letter words and NSFW language.

And the HBO Rome miniseries makes that point a number of times.

I think the rap song..or any modern pop song..was not a good choice, but not for that reason. Just does not fit in with a trailer plugging a film on Ancient Rome unless you are going camp, a la "Knight's Tale" which this is definently not.

 

Edited July 11 by dudalb

[dudalb]

5 minutes ago, vale9001 said:

 

 

Why the "historical feel" of ancient Rome should be recreated only with orchestral music inspired by post 1700 european music?. That's not the sound of Rome too.

 

I think it's about a feeling. I think any genre of song potentially create that kinda of epic feeling a movie like gladiator needs. A trailer It's like a perfume ad, more than anything you sell a feeling and a sensation. I don't think this First trailer intention was to sell a classy movie but to hopped up the audience about the action side an and for most of the generic people the trailer will work. 

I see History is not important to you. It is to me and a lot of people.

[PrinceRico]

1 hour ago, Firepower said:

If trailer quality and its reception don't matter, then it's safe to say The Crow reboot has nothing to worry about 

The crow never had anything to worry about because nobody was planning on seeing it before or after the trailer.

[AniNate]

Well we'll see just how much the "no such thing as bad publicity" truism holds here

 

https://deadline.com/2024/07/gladiator-ii-trailer-record-viewership-1236007580/

[Insomnia]

This is exhausting.