The Marvels | November 10, 2023 | Abandon All Hope Ye Who Enter

[iEnri]

"The screenings were good!!!!" Yeah ofc I am sure they were as good as Love and Thunder, Eternals and Quantumania's lmao

Edited November 3, 2023 by iEnri

[Zakiyyah6]

Just now, iEnri said:

"The screenings were good!!!!" Yeah sure I am confident they were as good as Love and Thunder, Eternals and Quantumania lmao

And see this is why the tracking is so bad. I hope that The Marvels is amazing but we cannot blindly trust Marvel anymore. 

[Bob Train]

34 minutes ago, TheFlatLannister said:

Calling CBMs "silly kids movies" feels like an unnecessary attack to people who enjoy them 

MCU is appealing to all ages. The average MCU fan is probably closer to 25ish range based off PostTrak data, which I personally don't consider to be a kid.

 

The largest age group for Guardians 3 OW audience was 25-31. And bare in mind that data is probably skewed to the younger crowd if anything as PostTrak tends to hit up exclusively major metros on the coasts (which skew younger ofc).

 

Edited November 3, 2023 by Bob Train

[ZattMurdock]

13 minutes ago, keysersoze123 said:

They pulled in dates for Guardians. They did early free screening and all reviews were out friday before release that is tomorrow for Marvels. Even at its nadir, it was doing way better than Marvels. They are not even in the same ballpark if you look outside MTC1. MTC2 is 1/3rd of Guardians and MTC3 is even worse. Same story on smaller TC as well. So waiting until final 2 days is not going to help with anything. 

I understand what you are saying my man. What I’m saying is that if we ignore the bad pre-sales numbers, if they actually have a good film here, maybe starting to not give a fuck about tracking and believing in the film they have might actually be a good thing. Without actors able to promote the film, maybe having an actual good film can help the film’s legs in the end. Yes, it’s all a product in the Marvel machine, but I wouldn’t call a bad strategy to hold this one close to their chest necessarily. We know that the current climate surrounding the film isn’t good, we know that if they did fan screenings what we would get is fans either hyping or shitting the film, but who would trust the fans if they were hyping it up? It’s not going to help when it comes to the OW sure, we are used to Marvel Studios films being frontloaded yes, but maybe The Marvel can break that rule if it’s, you know, good?

Edited November 3, 2023 by ZattMurdock

[ZeroHour]

9 minutes ago, DInky said:

 

If this happens (the movie gets a positive critical reception) then I'd really like to know what was happening behind the scenes.

If the reviews for this turn out to be good, then this will have been an all-timer as one of the worst film rollouts ever. 

[SaltyPistola]

9 minutes ago, Zakiyyah6 said:

And see this is why the tracking is so bad. I hope that The Marvels is amazing but we cannot blindly trust Marvel anymore. 

If they thought Ant-Man was rock solid who knows was they're smoking over there lmao 

[Eric is Anxious]

24 minutes ago, TheFlatLannister said:

Well the MPAA disagrees with your subjective assessment. Pg-13 is not for kids and usually encompasses all types of blockbusters. 

Here's my thing: I consider 95% of all PG-13 movies to be kids movies. And that's especially true for big blockbusters like DC and Marvel. They get nominated at the Kids Choice Awards every year, they have kiddie concepts attached to them, there's Happy Meal tie-ins, they sell their toys in Target next to the Hot Wheels, they sell lunchboxes and backpacks with those characters, commercials for these movies air on Nickelodeon or Cartoon Network. Those check all the boxes for kids movies. Yes, that includes The Batman or Doctor Strange 2 or whatever else people think is "too much" for kids.

 

This also applies to Transformers, to Barbie, to Avatar, and so on. There are some exceptions in the PG-13 blockbuster landscape of course. I don't really believe this qualifies for Jason Bourne or Mission: Impossible, since they have concepts and stories a bit too complex for kids and don't see tons of ads on kids channels. But considering Marvel movies have a big kid audience, are advertised towards kids, and have merchandise aimed at kids...yeah, I think they are kids movies. And that's fine. There's nothing wrong with enjoying something aimed at children. I have a fondness for all kinds of kids movies, including PG-13 fare.

 

And really, I use "silly kids movie" as a term in order to make people realize "Oh wow. I'm taking these arguments and fights way too far. This is something I need to curb back". How effective it is can be up for debate, but I think sometimes it gives people perspective that we need to chill on the fights and battles. Like what are we doing here? And frankly, "silly kids movie" is one of the softest digs you can give towards these movies IMO. I could say a lot meaner stuff about them than that and I know our users are mature and can handle something so innocuous being said about the movies they like.

[keysersoze123]

I saw Endgame on Sunday night of its OW(I tried to book only in the final week and there were no tickets available until then in a not so busy multiplex). Audience was not young at all. It skewed older audience for that show. That movie was a 4 Quad tsunami. 

[ZattMurdock]

13 minutes ago, ZeroHour said:

If the reviews for this turn out to be good, then this will have been an all-timer as one of the worst film rollouts ever. 

See, I might disagree hard on this. Maybe not giving a fuck about a film’s tracking might be a good thing. Marvel Studios working silently on their thing and being able to deliver might actually be a refreshing change of pace, especially with a film that is made controversial like this one due to things far beyond their control. We are in very sui generis circumstances with the strike still going on, The Marvels is easily the biggest film getting a release amid the strike that couldn’t have actors promoting it. If the film is actually good, and that’s a major all upper case IF, I don’t necessarily think that holding out close to its release is a bad idea. Trust the film, trust that the fans will come if you deliver might be seen as naive, but it can work.

Edited November 3, 2023 by ZattMurdock

[Bob Train]

2 minutes ago, Eric Presley said:

Here's my thing: I consider 95% of all PG-13 movies to be kids movies. And that's especially true for big blockbusters like DC and Marvel. They get nominated at the Kids Choice Awards every year, they have kiddie concepts attached to them, there's Happy Meal tie-ins, they sell their toys in Target next to the Hot Wheels, they sell lunchboxes and backpacks with those characters, commercials for these movies air on Nickelodeon or Cartoon Network. Those check all the boxes for kids movies. Yes, that includes The Batman or Doctor Strange 2 or whatever else people think is "too much" for kids.

 

This also applies to Transformers, to Barbie, to Avatar, and so on. There are some exceptions in the PG-13 blockbuster landscape of course. I don't really believe this qualifies for Jason Bourne or Mission: Impossible, since they have concepts and stories a bit too complex for kids and don't see tons of ads on kids channels. But considering Marvel movies have a big kid audience, are advertised towards kids, and have merchandise aimed at kids...yeah, I think they are kids movies. And that's fine. There's nothing wrong with enjoying something aimed at children. I have a fondness for all kinds of kids movies. But

 

And really, I use "silly kids movie" as a term in order to make people realize "Oh wow. I'm taking these arguments and fights way too far. This is something I need to curb back". How effective it is can be up for debate, but I think sometimes it gives people perspective that we need to chill on the fights and battles. Like what are we doing here? And frankly, "silly kids movie" is one of the softest digs you can give towards these movies IMO. I could say a lot meaner stuff about them than that and I know our users are mature and can handle something so innocuous being said about the movies they like.

You make some good points but idk it feels weird to call a movie where like 70% of the people who watched it are adults a kids movie. That's just me though. I get why you do it though, as from my experience flame wars around these franchises often get heated.

[ZattMurdock]

1 minute ago, Bob Train said:

You make some good points but idk it feels weird to call a movie where like 70% of the people who watched it are adults a kids movie. That's just me though. I get why you do it though, as from my experience flame wars around these franchises often get heated.

Who cares how anyone calls these films? I do think that people keep forgetting this:

 

 

[MovieMan89]

The SW prequels actually were made for children though. As in Lucas literally went in targeting kids and no one else. Hence why those movies were massive with their gen of kids. That’s a far cry from something like MCU, where “prestige” directors are sought to make tentpoles for the key teen to 30 something demographic. It’s also why the SW ST failed to connect with this gen of kids like the PT did. It wasn’t made for them. 

[Eric is Anxious]

5 minutes ago, MovieMan89 said:

The SW prequels actually were made for children though. As in Lucas literally went in targeting kids and no one else. Hence why those movies were massive with their gen of kids. That’s a far cry from something like MCU, where “prestige” directors are sought to make tentpoles for the key teen to 30 something demographic. It’s also why the SW ST failed to connect with this gen of kids like the PT did. It wasn’t made for them. 

Aight. They’re all still kids movies tho

[ZattMurdock]

3 minutes ago, MovieMan89 said:

The SW prequels actually were made for children though. As in Lucas literally went in targeting kids and no one else. Hence why those movies were massive with their gen of kids. That’s a far cry from something like MCU, where “prestige” directors are sought to make tentpoles for the key teen to 30 something demographic. It’s also why the SW ST failed to connect with this gen of kids like the PT did. It wasn’t made for them. 

I strongly disagree with that way of seeing these films. I think there is a case to be made that there isn’t a single superhero film ever made to adults ever, including Nolan’s joints OR rated-r films featuring characters from the superhero genre, including Deadpool and Joker. Being edgy isn’t being thoughtful to an adult audience whatsoever. The exception that I can think of is the sequel to Alan Moore’s Watchmen, the HBO series Watchmen, but even that one is kid friendly.

[Porthos]

5 minutes ago, ZattMurdock said:

Who cares how anyone calls these films? I do think that people keep forgetting this:

 

 

 

As much as I love him... 

 

George is wrong. 🙂

 

SW, and most CBMs, are FAMILY FILMS NOT KIDS FILMS.  

 

There is a difference between a film targeted at 12 year olds (in George's words) and ones for All Ages Appeal. 

 

This isn't the thread to get into it too deeply though so I'll leave it for a more appropiate place/time. 

[MovieMan89]

7 minutes ago, Eric Presley said:

Aight. They’re all still kids movies tho

Obviously entitled to your opinion, but I can assure you the execs over at Disney would disagree with your assessment with MCU target. Otherwise, they wouldn’t have been convinced Eternals was their BP ticket. 
 

I also think some underestimate parental guidance here. Plenty of parents don’t allow pg-13 for their kids. I and several friends I had as kids for example would not have been allowed to watch most MCU pre tween age if they were around. Maybe something super “soft” like Ant Man. Certainly not Cap movies. 

Edited November 3, 2023 by MovieMan89

[TwoMisfits]

3 minutes ago, ZattMurdock said:

I strongly disagree with that way of seeing these films. I think there is a case to be made that there isn’t a single superhero film ever made to adults ever, including Nolan’s joints OR rated-r films featuring characters from the superhero genre, including Deadpool and Joker. Being edgy isn’t being thoughtful to an adult audience whatsoever. The exception that I can think of is the sequel to Alan Moore’s Watchmen, the HBO series Watchmen, but even that one is kid friendly.

 

Ummm, Joker is about the most kid-unfriendly movie I think I've seen in theaters the last few years...not sure what kid would be brought to that movie, but I think they'd be traumatized after...

 

Even last year's The Batman was not made for kids...at all...of course, compared to the Joker, it was all sunshine and rainbows...

[ZattMurdock]

1 minute ago, Porthos said:

 

As much as I love him... 

 

George is wrong. 🙂

 

SW, and most CBMs, are FAMILY FILMS NOT KIDS FILMS.  

 

There is a difference between a film targeted at 12 year olds (in George's words) and ones for All Ages Appeal. 

 

This isn't the thread to get into it too deeply though so I'll leave it for a more appropiate place/time. 

Yeah we desperately need Star Wars and Marvel general threads. But I do think you are wrong though lol. It’s absolutely okay to enjoy kids movies as an adult. Marvel, DC and Star Wars are absolutely nostalgia joints as far as I’m concerned. 

[ZattMurdock]

Just now, TwoMisfits said:

 

Ummm, Joker is about the most kid-unfriendly movie I think I've seen in theaters the last few years...not sure what kid would be brought to that movie, but I think they'd be traumatized after...

 

Even last year's The Batman was not made for kids...at all...of course, compared to the Joker, it was all sunshine and rainbows...

The lots of edgelord kids that go apeshit on that film would like to have a word with you. And yeah no, The Batman is 100% a kids movie, through and through. Being edgy doesn’t equal being adult oriented. Regardless how much the mystique it’s sold  to kids is that "it’s an adult film".

[Porthos]

3 minutes ago, ZattMurdock said:

Yeah we desperately need Star Wars and Marvel general threads. But I do think you are wrong though lol. It’s absolutely okay to enjoy kids movies as an adult. Marvel, DC and Star Wars are absolutely nostalgia joints as far as I’m concerned. 

 

I don't disagree.  But, and maybe this is age speaking as I remember a time where there was a lot more General All Ages Entertainment, I think there is a difference between Film/TV Show All Ages Can Enjoy and one Specifically Targeted To Kids.

 

No more, no less.

 

But not the thread. 🙂