The Marvels | November 10, 2023 | Abandon All Hope Ye Who Enter

[Valonqar]

18 minutes ago, Deep Wang said:

 

Okay, so this goes back to what I was saying about folding space-time because they didn't know Ms. Marvel wasn't going to be a hit or that The Marvels was going to flop.  I promise they will not go forward with Ms. Marvel as the lead because they have data now that they didn't then.  

 

The problem is that you don't know until you try. 

 

I agree that you don't know til you try which is why you don't book untested characters for several projects sight unseen or you end up with a domino effect of flops. It's similar to booking one actor for several projects before even one showed whether you have a star or not (coughTaylorKitschcough). 

 

Re: Avengers trailer. Good trailer isn't the one that's most creative, artistic, unique but the one that sells the movie. Dated or not, Avengers trailer did the job and than some. Therefore it's a great trailer. 

Edited November 7, 2023 by Valonqar

[Zakiyyah6]

Television and films are amazing yet separate things. Mixing them together wasn't smart. It was never smart. 

[reddevil19]

24 minutes ago, DInky said:

 

Do you realize how hard it would be to pass on a chance to direct an MCU movie? Up until now it was a pretty safe bet. Even if you won't do another one, an MCU movie will put your name out there and if the movie is successful (like the vast majority of MCU movies) then it will open a lot of doors for you. So I think saying "she chose this" is pretty harsh. Also, she couldn't walk away "at any point". You might think you're on the same page with everyone but things can change during filming and post-production. Now she'll be forever connected to the worst bomb in the most successful movie franchise.

 

I really don't see many doors opening for up-and-comers that do these sorts of movies. It's usually directors that have other credits or well-developed upcoming projects that come out alright. The proper inexperienced ones end up chewed out and spat out, whether it's Marvel, DC, Star Wars or whatever. It's very much a financial decision and - like any adult that chooses to invest in something or take a job - it's 100% on her. You're making it sound like she was strong-armed or something. Give me a break. She'll be fine anyway but this handwringing is over the top even if she did get thrown under the bus. You can't be all "yas queen, I love you, you're so strong and powerful" and at the same time "oh no, poor woman HAD to say yes or she'd be blacklisted".

[Hypercortical]

6 minutes ago, Valonqar said:

 

I agree that you don't know til you try which is why you don't book untested characters for several projects sight unseen or you end up with a domino effect of flops. It's similar to booking one actor for several projects before even one showed whether you have a star or not (coughTaylorKitschcough). 

 

Re: Avengers trailer. Good trailer isn't the one that's most creative, artistic, unique but the one that sells the movie. Dated or not, Avengers trailer did the job and than some. Therefore it's a great trailer. 

 

Well you just have to choose your poison

1. have a well planned out saga, but risk having to go forward with poorly received characters

 

or

 

2. have an unplanned saga where you can just react on a dime, but it's clear to the audience that things don't flow that well

 

I'm sure creatives prefer 1, and non-creative execs prefer 2. Personally, I'd rather see them give us characters, and stick with them even if they aren't well received. Workshop them until they are well received. It's what we got with Thor and Captain America. 

[Kon]

7 minutes ago, Zakiyyah6 said:

Television and films are amazing yet separate things. Mixing them together wasn't smart. It was never smart. 

Honestly, I think it was pretty good for the first week of Doctor Strange Multiverse of Madness.

 

The issue is that Disney + shows have been losing popularity.

[Valonqar]

2 minutes ago, Hypercortical said:

 

Well you just have to choose your poison

1. have a well planned out saga, but risk having to go forward with poorly received characters

 

or

 

2. have an unplanned saga where you can just react on a dime, but it's clear to the audience that things don't flow that well

 

I'm sure creatives prefer 1, and non-creative execs prefer 2. Personally, I'd rather see them give us characters, and stick with them even if they aren't well received. Workshop them until they are well received. It's what we got with Thor and Captain America. 

 

I see your point but difference is that Thor and Cap didn't flop. They just weren't as big as IM. But they didn't flop even 1 movie let alone a show and a movie. You can't workshop interest that simply isn't there. There was always interest in Thor and Cap. There was always interest in Hulk but being the lead and probably casting intense actors too didn't work out. Putting him in a supporting role and going from gloomy to charming and funny (Ruffalo) did wonders. 

[Zakiyyah6]

1 minute ago, Kon said:

Honestly, I think it was pretty good for the first week of Doctor Strange Multiverse of Madness.

 

The issue is that Disney + shows have been losing popularity.

I get what you are saying but Wanda was a movie character, not a Disney Plus character. Grown up Maria and especially Ms Marvel are seen as television characters because that's where they started. 

[Torontofan]

I noticed TV shows never get as many IMDB ratings as Movies

 

Makes me think movies always get more wider audiences then tv shows.

[The GOAT]

 

[XXRDJisDoctorDoom]

***Me, logging on for the first time today.***

 

”I wonder how the forum is doing. Oh, there’s 60+ new comments in ‘The Marvels’ thread. How fun, I’m sure none of these are ridiculous, redundant or off topic!”

 

[RichWS]

Haha, I don't mean to pile on but what the hell was this moment? 

 

[PlatnumRoyce]

1 hour ago, Valonqar said:

 

I see your point but difference is that Thor and Cap didn't flop. They just weren't as big as IM. But they didn't flop even 1 movie let alone a show and a movie. You can't workshop interest that simply isn't there. There was always interest in Thor and Cap. There was always interest in Hulk but being the lead and probably casting intense actors too didn't work out. Putting him in a supporting role and going from gloomy to charming and funny (Ruffalo) did wonders. 

 

and I'd separate Cap 1 (arguably a disappointment) from Thor 1. Here's what BoM wrote on Thor 1's opening weekend (Thor opened to 65M)

 

Quote

>> If Thor can blast past the opening attendance numbers of The Incredible Hulk and previous non-sequel summer kick-offs like Van Helsing [52M in 2004 -> ~66M adjusted] and The Mummy, [42M in 1998/~72M in 2011 terms] that would be impressive. Other comparable titles may be Clash of the Titans (2010) ($61.2 million), Troy and Gladiator (the latter two would be in the $50-60 million range, adjusted for ticket price inflation). It would be unrealistic to expect Thor to match X-Men Origins: Wolverine ($85.1 million).

Those are reasonable comps for a second tier superhero film and ambitious comps for a mythological film.  It clearly hit reasonable comps based expectations. Thor 1's box office gross is underrated because the MCU ended up being such a big success. You'd feel comfortable penciling in a trilogy after that gross. 

Edited November 8, 2023 by PlatnumRoyce

[PlatnumRoyce]

1 hour ago, Zakiyyah6 said:

I get what you are saying but Wanda was a movie character, not a Disney Plus character. Grown up Maria and especially Ms Marvel are seen as television characters because that's where they started. 

I suspect that counterintuitively, "Grown up Maria was on WandaVision" either did nothing or was a net negative in a way that wouldn't have been true if she was simply introduced in this movie. 

 

Small effects but I think real ones. 

[Valonqar]

13 minutes ago, PlatnumRoyce said:

 

and I'd separate Cap 1 (arguably a disappointment) from Thor 1. Here's what BoM wrote on Thor 1's opening weekend (Thor opened to 65M)

 

Those are reasonable comps for a second tier superhero film and ambitious comps for a mythological film.  It clearly hit reasonable comps based expectations. Thor 1's box office gross is underrated because the MCU ended up being such a big success. You'd feel comfortable penciling in a trilogy after that gross. 

 

Oh wow! Thanks! 

[SpiderByte]

Well you can't say they aren't trying at least.

 

 

[Hypercortical]

45 minutes ago, RichWS said:

Haha, I don't mean to pile on but what the hell was this moment? 

 

 

Not sure what you mean. I don't know what the context of this shot is, but I don't see an issue with that. Out of context shots are common in trailers. But it looks really good. 

[Hypercortical]

2 hours ago, Valonqar said:

 

I see your point but difference is that Thor and Cap didn't flop. They just weren't as big as IM. But they didn't flop even 1 movie let alone a show and a movie. You can't workshop interest that simply isn't there. There was always interest in Thor and Cap. There was always interest in Hulk but being the lead and probably casting intense actors too didn't work out. Putting him in a supporting role and going from gloomy to charming and funny (Ruffalo) did wonders. 

Well I wasn't necessarily thinking about box office so much as how much people were into those characters. I feel like nobody liked Thor until Ragnarök. 

[SpiderByte]

13 minutes ago, Hypercortical said:

 

Not sure what you mean. I don't know what the context of this shot is, but I don't see an issue with that. Out of context shots are common in trailers. But it looks really good. 

I think they mean the caption mentioning the breathing. It's just a thing that subtitles have sometimes.

 

 

Edited November 8, 2023 by SpiderByte

[Hypercortical]

 

 

I just can't think of someone better to direct Captain Marvel films

[Dominic Draper]

3 hours ago, Torontofan said:

First Avengers trailer is very old school dated something from like 2002 lol

 

2nd trailer has likely one of the most famous shots in comic book history 

 

 

This shot is what allowed the avengers to smash the opening weekend record. 

It's still so funny how blatantly this film copied bays style in the 3rd act.