The Flash | June 16 2023 | Ezra Miller, Michael Keaton | We’re stoping the count at a Nice 69% RT (it’s 72% For Real) | Please Remember that Your Enjoyment Of The Film is Not Based On Others Opinions And To Be Nice To Each Other

[excel1]

Most recent presales update is actually not bad.

[LVB]

Yeah. Presales went from apocalyptic to catastrophic.

Edited June 15, 2023 by LVB

[dudalb]

4 minutes ago, LVB said:

Yeah. Presales went from apocalyptic to catastrophic.

I think aomeone here is going throug the Denial stage of the grieving process.

[PrinceRico]

16 minutes ago, excel1 said:

Most recent presales update is actually not bad.

Right. It’s awful.

[AJG]

31 minutes ago, Dragoncaine said:

This thing is really about to end up on the verge of rotten after all those euphoric CinemaCon reactions, huh? I haven't seen the movie yet, but WB gonna WB, I guess.

I think it’s current RT score is pretty fair in all honesty.

 

As for CinemaCon, it’s an industrial conference of cinema executives, not movie critics. They watched a SuperHero movie with a bunch of Easter Eggs and assumed “OMG, we have another NWH smash on our hands. It’s gonna be HUGE. People will wanna see it twice” etc.

[dudalb]

10 hours ago, SchumacherFTW said:

The DCEU was absolutely designed to be a rival for the MCU, hell based on the characters alone and what BvS opened to, that absolutely was possible. The one two punch of BVS and Suicide Squad did enough damage that the vision couldn't be recovered from, even with a Wonder Woman or Aquaman hitting. 

Actually you  had a false start before that: "Green Lantern" was clearly designed to do for the DCU what Iron Man did for the MCU....and failed.

That is when MOS became the movie that would "Launch " the DCU.

The huge mistake DC made was they wanted to rush things after Avengers came out; they took one look at the grosses and wanted thrir Jl movie. But they did not want to take the time to build to it like Marvel did; they wanted to rush and so when MOS did not do the kind of numbers they thought it would they panicked junked  MOS2 and probably a couple of other films and treid to jump to the end with BVS.We all know what  happened.

[dudalb]

5 hours ago, KGPatt2 said:

If they had released the Ultimate Cut of BvS and the Ayer Cut of Suicide Squad in theaters and not brought in Whedon for Justice League, then everything would have been fine IMO. But they cut BvS down and then panicked and it all collapsed on itself. Not saying the Ultimate Cut is even good and who really knows what the Ayer Cut would look like, but I'd be willing to bet it's far superior to what we got. Without going full awful on those 2 and simply getting movies that are fine, then Wonder Woman does even more to help propel into Zach Snyder's Justice League and this universe, while not on the level of the MCU, is making good money and running a solid 2nd as opposed to being in full scramble mode for 6 years.

 

I get Snyder's vision wasn't for everyone and this is not a popular opinion, but the decisions made by executives in 2016 is what caused the majority of these problems.

The Ultimate BvS fixed a couple of the structual problems with the theatrical version, but did not correct msny of the flaws in Snyder's vision.

I don't thing the Ultimate version would have done much better then the theatrical version. Snyder just did not get Superman,and that was fatal.

[dudalb]

3 hours ago, JWR said:

 

Gunn has confirmed that it won't be an origin story.

I think the origin of Supes, will be refrenced,but Gunn knows we do not have to see it once again. 

Think of what Marvel and Sony did with the MCU Spiderman and I think that is what Gunn will do with Supes.

The origin of Supes is like the origin of Batman, we all know the story, and it's been done too often as it is.

[Alexander]

Siberia is the best part. That's the movie I would like to watch. Something smaller, similar to let's say Hellboy 1. Opening action sequence is fine, Keaton's good, I've liked those two cameos buuuut... The movie is a complete mess. CGI is bad but mainly it's used when you don't really have too - like Affleck's Batsuit. Whyyy? I don't get it.

 

**/*****

[dudalb]

2 hours ago, ZattMurdock said:

Yeah no, I don’t even like Avatar but come on now.

Avatar was a increditble achivement when it came to the visuals.

But other then that it was a really mediocre movie. CLiched Story, one dimensional charecters,a message that was shoved down your throat..something people resent even if they agree with the message.......take away the visuals, you have a very mediocre Sci Fi movie. And 2 was no better.

But denying it moved SFX to a new level is foolish.

[dudalb]

4 hours ago, Johnny Tran said:

 

It's still unfair to him. WB back then meddled with his and Ayer's projects.  ZSJL was very well received.  

 

When WB steps out of the way like with James Wan, Todd Phillips and Matt Reeves the movies print money.  

 

The lesson here is let the directors create their vision. 

That did not work out so well in Snyder's case.

He had his way with BvS and looked what happened, and ZSJL was better then the theatrical version,but itls still a badly flawed film. It was well received by the Snyder fanboys and the hard core DCU fans,but not by people in General.

 

[ZattMurdock]

6 minutes ago, dudalb said:

Avatar was a increditble achivement when it came to the visuals.

But other then that it was a really mediocre movie. CLiched Story, one dimensional charecters,a message that was shoved down your throat..something people resent even if they agree with the message.......take away the visuals, you have a very mediocre Sci Fi movie. And 2 was no better.

But denying it moved SFX to a new level is foolish.

That’s my take as well when it comes to the first one. Haven’t seen 2 yet.

[Johnny Tran]

4 hours ago, Emporio said:

the latest mcu movie isnt ant man, its gotg and its the second highest grossing movie of the year.

 

And James Gunn was the director.  Funny enough the movie had nothing to do with anything that's coming down the pipeline, not sure what your post is even trying to say.  

[John Marston]

Opening under Black Adam everywhere it seems 

[Future Foundation]

3 hours ago, LVB said:

With China's help.

And, you know, domestically.

 

3 hours ago, Emporio said:

A batman movie barely outgrossing a thor movie is the equivalent of a spiderman movie barely outgrossing a green lantern movie.

 

Not that impressive. Abd btw what did every dc movie except the batman do box office wise in the past few year

You said DC would kill to have a movie with Love and Thunder's gross, and I gave you an example of a movie that year outgrossing it. Now it's not enough.

 

You two keep moving goalposts, maybe one of you will trip over a clue.

[Johnny Tran]

3 hours ago, ZattMurdock said:

Good point. For me it felt very formulaic, and I also find it incredibly distasteful to make Joker a sympathetic figure. It’s Taxi Driver when it comes to what is obviously heavy influenced by, and I say that to a fault, not really a compliment. Joker should be dangerous and not really an anti-hero, it felt a lot to me ironically like Venom, never mind how outstanding Phoenix performance is. But I do think that the general consensus I see from people - and how I personally feel about the film as well - is that it’s a terrific performance in a meh film, with a predictable story, with the biggest sin for me trying too hard to make us feel about the Joker. He is a sociopath, a lunatic. Not an anti-hero. I feel a lot like Blue Beetle’s uncle when it comes to Batman, but making Joker an anti-establishment sympathetic anti-hero felt hollow and a complete lack of understanding of the source material.

 

This is all how you personally felt and does nothing in response to my reply to you that was only rooted in factual information. 

[Johnny Tran]

3 hours ago, LVB said:

 

With China's help.

 

If you're talking 'The Batman' box office gross you should probably start with the fact it was only in theaters for 45 days before landing on HBO Max.  So the $770M that it did make would have been a lot more if the previous regime hadn't made the decision to put it on Max early to net subs.  

[ZattMurdock]

2 minutes ago, Johnny Tran said:

 

This is all how you personally felt and does nothing in response to my reply to you that was only rooted in factual information. 

You mean Oscar indications? The Oscar win? I’m not sure you can call Joker ‘objectively’ one of the best superhero films of all time by that sort of metric. If you want to use IMDB, then there are the RT scores, it’s pointless discussion because you want to call it ‘objectively’ one of the best films based in comic books and well, I couldn’t disagree more with you.

[dudalb]

5 minutes ago, John Marston said:

Opening under Black Adam everywhere it seems 

If that happens I will be surprised. I thought The Flash being on of DC most famous charecters as opposed to the unknown Black Adam would count for at least a little at the box office.

[Johnny Tran]

3 minutes ago, ZattMurdock said:

You mean Oscar indications? The Oscar win? I’m not sure you can call Joker ‘objectively’ one of the best superhero films of all time by that sort of metric. If you want to use IMDB, then there are the RT scores, it’s pointless discussion because you want to call it ‘objectively’ one of the best films based in comic books and well, I couldn’t disagree more with you.

 

You're disagreeing with me but you're not posting any factual information other than it got around 64% of whatever it was on RT.  Many of those critics from the U.S. took some sort of political stance.  It went far above those numbers from overseas critics who don't care about U.S. politics.  

 

Box office indicates are huge, popular movie.  WOM and legs were great. Audience scores were great. And yes, it was nominated for 11 Oscars combined with countless other nominations at other awards shows.  And also won the Golden Lion. 

 

If you show me more comic book movies that have all of those accolades then maybe it's more of a discussion.