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[dudalb]

23 hours ago, von Kenni said:

 

You showed the tip of the ice berg (though I don't know if Jack Posobiec is personally involved in the movie?) and unfortunately I went to see some of the Jim Caviezel's commentary (interview with Steve Bannon of all people...) and yeah, it's the nuts QAnon BS as before. It's sad and depressing. I took liking of him on The Thin Red Line and Person of Interest series (pretty timely know) but man, he really went to the deep end.

Caviezal is a nutcase. end of story.

[dudalb]

As for the suceess of the film, Fascism marches one, with, as predicted, the flag in one hand and the cross in the other.

All I can say is thank God I am an athiest.

[Deep Wang]

10 minutes ago, baumer said:

Having said that I don't think Jim caviezal is big on qanon. Just because he has stated publicly that things like adrenochrome is real that's not a qanon thing. And it doesn't make you a raving psychotic to have the belief that people do kill kids to get their adrenaline flowing and use that blood for whatever they use it for. In places like Vietnam South Korea North Korea Thailand and so on the same kind of theory is used when they torture animals before they eat them. They have the belief that the more scared and in physical pain that an animal is in, the adrenaline creates better tasting meat. So it's not like the adrenochrome theory is something brand new created by qanon.

 

 

 

 

He was literally a speaker at a Qanon conference in 2021.  I know you might not want to believe that about him, and that's admirable, but he's fully onboard the Q train.

 

The sad thing is that while I don't know exactly when he was pilled, the movie was made in 2018(first Q drop was Oct/Nov 2017), I think they were trying to do the right thing while making this movie, then fell down the rabbit hole after.  

[dudalb]

Watch, Angel fil;ms will make an out and out Anti LBGT movie next. 

[dudalb]

2 minutes ago, Deep Wang said:

 

 

 

He was literally a speaker at a Qanon conference in 2021.  I know you might not want to believe that about him, and that's admirable, but he's fully onboard the Q train.

 

The sad thing is that while I don't know exactly when he was pilled, the movie was made in 2018(first Q drop was Oct/Nov 2017), I think they were trying to do the right thing while making this movie, then fell down the rabbit hole after.  

That Cazaviel is out and out nutjob has been clear for anybody who is paying attetention for some tiem.

I find it interesting that the person trying to deny this here is one of the site'

s biggest promoters of conspiracy theeories.

Conspiracy theories are not harmless. they hurt people. They inevitably promote hatred.

[TwoMisfits]

3 minutes ago, dudalb said:

Watch, Angel fil;ms will make an out and out Anti LBGT movie next. 

 

Their next movie is The Shift, a sci fi thriller with faith elements based apparently loosely on the Book of Job (b/c Slam caused me to look even more into it:)...

Edited July 10, 2023 by TwoMisfits

[dudalb]

I meant next loosely. I am still conviced they will go down that route. as the cancer of bigotry spreads, with the religious right being theprime promoter.

[von Kenni]

7 minutes ago, dudalb said:

As for the suceess of the film, Fascism marches one, with, as predicted, the flag in one hand and the cross in the other.

All I can say is thank God I am an athiest.

 

...and I guess communists march only with the flag. I early on learned that communism and fascism are not just on opposite ends of the spectrum but that the range itself isn't a straight line but more like a horseshoe where the ends are almost touching each other.  They are sides of the same coin. Extreme systems of oppression that have and will cause a lot of harm for countless lives. A working-class musician when I was young said pretty aptly, "A red truth isn't any better than the white lie".

[baumer]

10 minutes ago, Deep Wang said:

 

 

 

He was literally a speaker at a Qanon conference in 2021.  I know you might not want to believe that about him, and that's admirable, but he's fully onboard the Q train.

 

The sad thing is that while I don't know exactly when he was pilled, the movie was made in 2018(first Q drop was Oct/Nov 2017), I think they were trying to do the right thing while making this movie, then fell down the rabbit hole after.  

 

But I said this so many times and I don't know how what more I can say to you, there is nothing to do with politics in the movie it's just straight up sex trafficking and rescuing kids.

[Deep Wang]

3 minutes ago, baumer said:

 

But I said this so many times and I don't know how what more I can say to you, there is nothing to do with politics in the movie it's just straight up sex trafficking and rescuing kids.

I understand, I was replying specifically about Caviezel, NOT the movie. 
 

I even pointed out that I think the movie was made for the right reasons since it was made very early in the Q movement!

[baumer]

5 minutes ago, Deep Wang said:

I understand, I was replying specifically about Caviezel, NOT the movie. 
 

I even pointed out that I think the movie was made for the right reasons since it was made very early in the Q movement!

Yes my apologies. You are right you have actually been really decent about all this even though, once again, we're on the opposite end of the spectrum. There's been a few people, well more than a few, who have really kind of dug in and been kind of dickish LOL you aren't one of them. So I respect your feelings and your opinions and thanks for keeping it civil with me.

[XXR vs XXR]

1 hour ago, baumer said:

A lot of you guys know that I believe in a lot of so-called conspiracy theories. I also know a lot of you think I'm a complete nut Job and this can be traced back to whatsapp group that maybe 20 of us were in and probably still exists but I'm no longer part of it. For example I have a massive thread in this site somewhere detailing why 911 was an inside Job.

I perused that thread during COVID. Lots of interesting takes all throughout it.

[Boxx93]

Edit nvm

Edited July 10, 2023 by Boxx93

[von Kenni]

7 hours ago, M37 said:

But if all anyone does is see the film and "become educated", again I ask: what actually changes in the life of past/current/potential victim? You couldn't take 15 minutes to Google which organizations have had their hands in this issue for years, but immediately handed over like $50 to Angel Studios? How much do you know about them?

 

This isn't like raising awareness of a social issue, where individuals are directly or indirectly part of the problem, and educating them on downstream effects can alter behavior which then collectively improves over time. Nobody is going to come out of the theater and go "welp, guess I really should stop paying for child prostitutes!"

 

I'm known IRL as often being brutally honestly, so I'm going to stop dancing around it and just skip to the big picture reality: this whole endeavor is a con job, the pay it forward ticket sales program an ingenious way to bilk even more money from people, and the reason you can't see it is ... because I'm sorry to say you're one of the marks

 

Sure, there's some level of nuance beyond that, but that's the underlying reality, and the real reason this film has generated so much discussion. It seems like you mean well, and I know from experience saying that probably won't change your mind, is frankly more likely to harden your position, so feel free to curse me out or put me on ignore or whatever, but hope you can at least respect that I'm willing to treat you like an adult who can hear an uncomfortable truth

 

Thank you for sharing your straightforward take. I can surely understand your argument for the con job what it might be and you certainly seemed to have cemented your view on that. I'm wondering what if

 

1. The Angel Studios are doing this in good faith from real Christian values. I haven't seen evidence yet that they are some QAnon or other "alt-right" propaganda machine. Making that claim would need more than just a nutjob lead in the movie or finding some of the production team members posting some similar stuff. If there is evidence of more of a systematic thing regarding this with the people behind the studio heads, then it could be a different thing. It's a for-profit studio too and not trying to be any money-making evangelist church scheme that some of the churches are.

 

2. The film itself is good as a film and at the same time raises awareness of a real issue. No one hasn't yet pointed out any notions that the movie itself includes any of the QAnon or other conspiracy things clearly or in the subtext. Sure, it has given a platform in certain echo chambers for Jim Caviezel to promote some crazy stuff but where's the con, if

 

3. It makes people care enough to take action against child trafficking by donating or otherwise volunteering through Angel Studio's website links or other means such as googling how to take action. It seems to have made grown-up men in tears like mentioned here as a first-hand account and I've seen mentioned about it elsewhere too.

 

Sure, we could all stop going to Starbucks and donate that money too to charity, or these movie tickets, but those who have dealt with fundraising know very well that it takes money to fundraise. It is marketing and branding to raise awareness and get the right people to care, who actually are potential action-takers. I've always cringed at how much money is thrown at fundraisers. Couldn't there be better ways to do it so that more of that fundraising cost would go directly to the good cause? Unfortunately, that is part of human nature. You need to get people's attention and make them care in this noise-filled world. And if people like the TwoMisfits got to see a good movie that made them care because of the pay-it-forward, it has its value of own.

 

Now, maybe it all is part of a bigger scam, a con job, but until I see more evidence against the three points above, I will give it a benefit of doubt at least.

 

On a personal note, I'm a proponent of giving 2.5% of personal income as Muslims do to charity. I must say that I have done it with varied success but even without seeing this movie and based on the discussions here and how TwoMisfits has shared background information about the studio and their links to this cause, I'm going to do some more research and then divert some of my charitable donations to fighting against child trafficking.

 

As a final note, if the intentions of Angel Studio here are good and we (the majority that aren't QAnon proponents) will slam it right out of the bat without trying to find that common ground or common humanity to build on top, doesn't that push them and perhaps similar newcomer studios to double-down to those echo chambers where Jim Caviezel has promoted this movie, and ultimately make them and in a way force them to make movies that really have those QAnon or other conspiracy theory talking points in them to stay financially profitable. Doesn't this kind of response just increase polarization?

[dudalb]

1 hour ago, von Kenni said:

 

...and I guess communists march only with the flag. I early on learned that communism and fascism are not just on opposite ends of the spectrum but that the range itself isn't a straight line but more like a horseshoe where the ends are almost touching each other.  They are sides of the same coin. Extreme systems of oppression that have and will cause a lot of harm for countless lives. A working-class musician when I was young said pretty aptly, "A red truth isn't any better than the white lie".

Oh, I 100% agree. 

I have taken heat here because I am not a "Anti Capitlist".

I have lots of nasty thing to say about  Left wing regimes an well as right wing regimes.

I just think, that, in the US right wing extremisim is a much greater threat then that on the left.

[Avatree]

56 minutes ago, von Kenni said:

 

Thank you for sharing your straightforward take. I can surely understand your argument for the con job what it might be and you certainly seemed to have cemented your view on that. I'm wondering what if

 

1. The Angel Studios are doing this in good faith from real Christian values. I haven't seen evidence yet that they are some QAnon or other "alt-right" propaganda machine. Making that claim would need more than just a nutjob lead in the movie or finding some of the production team members posting some similar stuff. If there is evidence of more of a systematic thing regarding this with the people behind the studio heads, then it could be a different thing. It's a for-profit studio too and not trying to be any money-making evangelist church scheme that some of the churches are.

 

2. The film itself is good as a film and at the same time raises awareness of a real issue. No one hasn't yet pointed out any notions that the movie itself includes any of the QAnon or other conspiracy things clearly or in the subtext. Sure, it has given a platform in certain echo chambers for Jim Caviezel to promote some crazy stuff but where's the con, if

 

3. It makes people care enough to take action against child trafficking by donating or otherwise volunteering through Angel Studio's website links or other means such as googling how to take action. It seems to have made grown-up men in tears like mentioned here as a first-hand account and I've seen mentioned about it elsewhere too.

 

Sure, we could all stop going to Starbucks and donate that money too to charity, or these movie tickets, but those who have dealt with fundraising know very well that it takes money to fundraise. It is marketing and branding to raise awareness and get the right people to care, who actually are potential action-takers. I've always cringed at how much money is thrown at fundraisers. Couldn't there be better ways to do it so that more of that fundraising cost would go directly to the good cause? Unfortunately, that is part of human nature. You need to get people's attention and make them care in this noise-filled world. And if people like the TwoMisfits got to see a good movie that made them care because of the pay-it-forward, it has its value of own.

 

Now, maybe it all is part of a bigger scam, a con job, but until I see more evidence against the three points above, I will give it a benefit of doubt at least.

 

On a personal note, I'm a proponent of giving 2.5% of personal income as Muslims do to charity. I must say that I have done it with varied success but even without seeing this movie and based on the discussions here and how TwoMisfits has shared background information about the studio and their links to this cause, I'm going to do some more research and then divert some of my charitable donations to fighting against child trafficking.

 

As a final note, if the intentions of Angel Studio here are good and we (the majority that aren't QAnon proponents) will slam it right out of the bat without trying to find that common ground or common humanity to build on top, doesn't that push them and perhaps similar newcomer studios to double-down to those echo chambers where Jim Caviezel has promoted this movie, and ultimately make them and in a way force them to make movies that really have those QAnon or other conspiracy theory talking points in them to stay financially profitable. Doesn't this kind of response just increase polarization?

 

1. The fact you use "in the name of Christian values" as a moral defense of this Qanon shite just furthers the argument of people opposing you who will say this is right wing religious propaganda.

If Angel Studios was actually interested in promoting a real life issue, they would be rejecting the Qanon promotion and banning the promoters of this film from talking about Qanon conspiracies. Because these conspiracies do not help, they actively make things worse when they give people false information.

 

2. The quality of the film is irrelevant. And how does it "raise awareness" of a real issue? The term "raising awareness" shouldn't mean "letting you know something exists", it should mean educating people with real factual information and solutions.

 

3. What action will you be taking to fight human trafficking, then?

How is donating money to a movie studio "taking action" LOL? What charitable donations are you making, what charities are they going to, and how will those charities use the money to "take action"? Can you please provide a serious answer rather than vague phrases like "taking action" and "fighting".

 

 

The only thing this appears to promote is Ballard's organisation that has lied and invented everything it claims to do. The only help they appear to demonstrably provide is helping themselves to the pockets of outraged moral-panic-induced "Concerned Christians".

 

 

 

 

Edited July 10, 2023 by Avatree

[MightGuy]

3 hours ago, baumer said:

 Just because he has stated publicly that things like adrenochrome is real that's not a qanon thing. And it doesn't make you a raving psychotic to have the belief that people do kill kids to get their adrenaline flowing and use that blood for whatever they use it for. In places like Vietnam South Korea North Korea Thailand and so on the same kind of theory is used when they torture animals before they eat them. They have the belief that the more scared and in physical pain that an animal is in, the adrenaline creates better tasting meat. So it's not like the adrenochrome theory is something brand new created by qanon.

The hell?

 

Are you serious? I can't even be kind about this take. The adrenochrome theory is A] definitely Qanon related and B] absolutely in no way a belief that you can have and just be fine. Negative. There is literally an extremist action based entirely around this conspiracy theory.

 

I gotta step away if this is the kind of thing folks can just post with no pushback.

[von Kenni]

52 minutes ago, Avatree said:

 

1. The fact you use "in the name of Christian values" as a moral defense of this Qanon shite just furthers the argument of people opposing you who will say this is right wing religious propaganda.

If Angel Studios was actually interested in promoting a real life issue, they would be rejecting the Qanon promotion and banning the promoters of this film from talking about Qanon conspiracies. Because these conspiracies do not help, they actively make things worse when they give people false information.

 

2. The quality of the film is irrelevant. And how does it "raise awareness" of a real issue? The term "raising awareness" shouldn't mean "letting you know something exists", it should mean educating people with real factual information and solutions.

 

3. What action will you be taking to fight human trafficking, then?

How is donating money to a movie studio "taking action" LOL? What charitable donations are you making, what charities are they going to, and how will those charities use the money to "take action"? Can you please provide a serious answer rather than vague phrases like "taking action" and "fighting".

 

 

The only thing this appears to promote is Ballard's organisation that has lied and invented everything it claims to do. The only help they appear to demonstrably provide is helping themselves to the pockets of outraged moral-panic-induced "Concerned Christians".

 

 

 

 

 

"1. The fact you use "in the name of Christian values" as a moral defense of this Qanon shite just furthers the argument of people opposing you who will say this is right wing religious propaganda."

 

I didn't use any "in the name of Christian values" as a moral defense. I exactly said the following:

 

"I'm wondering what if

 

1. The Angel Studios are doing this in good faith from real Christian values."

 

This meant if they are true to what they claimed to be as a studio expressing real Christian values. In other words, having authenticity and integrity regarding what they say that they are in contrary to some churches that exist only to fund their leaders' lavish lifestyles and use Christianity as an insidious front. Maybe I assumed too much that you and everyone have read this thread enough to know the background of the Angel Studios. If you knew it, then it might be telling of your attitude toward the whole movie and subject, and how you filter anything said about it.

 

I can say as a personal note that I'm not a Christian although I was baptized as a Lutheran. Our family wasn't especially religious and I'm not a member of any church or religion. I am not either an atheist and have certain beliefs about the substrates of existence. That said, the whole "West" is built on top of judeo-christian values and traditions that have a lot of good in them starting from loving your neighbor as yourself.

 

You bring up a valid point that has been discussed here about them allowing Jim Caviezel and Ballard to spew conspiracy BS while promoting the film. How can they be then true to their Christian values? How far do they go and how much that should nullify the whole film itself? That's what I most ponder about the whole thing while weighing the con side of this.

 

2. I think the "how good the movie itself" is a valid point because this is a box office forum discussing movies. If this would be a badly made movie in itself it would also undermine the themes that it promotes which in the film is child trafficking. In any movie, at least for me, how good of a movie it is in itself is primary and the theme(s) secondary.

 

In regards to raising awareness, there are definitely different degrees but I don't either see why just large crowds going to see the movie, being emotionally impacted by it, and also generating discussions here in the forum and other places on the internet isn't that. I sure wouldn't be now researching where to donate to help fight child trafficking, if the movie wouldn't been made or wouldn't raise such a noise. I am not happy about the QAnon BS from Caviezel or Ballard or how this is drumming in certain echo chambers but I'm not either going to disregard the problems that the movie in itself raises.

 

3. At this point, I'm not sure if you even read what I wrote. So below that part again. And where did I say buying tickets to the movie is taking action?

 

2 hours ago, von Kenni said:

3. It makes people care enough to take action against child trafficking by donating or otherwise volunteering through Angel Studio's website links or other means such as googling how to take action. It seems to have made grown-up men in tears like mentioned here as a first-hand account and I've seen mentioned about it elsewhere too.

 

Sure, we could all stop going to Starbucks and donate that money too to charity, or these movie tickets, but those who have dealt with fundraising know very well that it takes money to fundraise. It is marketing and branding to raise awareness and get the right people to care, who actually are potential action-takers. I've always cringed at how much money is thrown at fundraisers. Couldn't there be better ways to do it so that more of that fundraising cost would go directly to the good cause? Unfortunately, that is part of human nature. You need to get people's attention and make them care in this noise-filled world. And if people like the TwoMisfits got to see a good movie that made them care because of the pay-it-forward, it has its value of own.

 

Now, maybe it all is part of a bigger scam, a con job, but until I see more evidence against the three points above, I will give it a benefit of doubt at least.

 

On a personal note, I'm a proponent of giving 2.5% of personal income as Muslims do to charity. I must say that I have done it with varied success but even without seeing this movie and based on the discussions here and how TwoMisfits has shared background information about the studio and their links to this cause, I'm going to do some more research and then divert some of my charitable donations to fighting against child trafficking.

 

 and here's what TwoMisfits shared earlier on this thread about where to donate from Angel Studio's perspective which I referred to:

 

-----------

"They don't have profit quite yet (since I think they just broke even today), but since I've been touring the Angel Studios site, they have set up (on the opening day) a whole page with direct links for how you can get educated, how you can donate, and how you can take action.  For anyone who wants to see it, it's not a bad starting page...

 

https://www.angel.com/blog/sound-of-freedom/posts/sound-of-freedom-join-the-fight-against-child-trafficking "

------------

 

Now I'm going to check those links critically for sure and as you said, it's important to look at how they are going to spend the money, what are their means to solve this problem, what are their G&A costs, etc. I also look elsewhere. That's the research I mentioned I'm going to do. But I think that even if I would deliver all that with a wire transaction receipt, you wouldn't be satisfied with that either and could spin it into something bad again.

[von Kenni]

2 hours ago, dudalb said:

Oh, I 100% agree. 

I have taken heat here because I am not a "Anti Capitlist".

I have lots of nasty thing to say about  Left wing regimes an well as right wing regimes.

I just think, that, in the US right wing extremisim is a much greater threat then that on the left.

 

I feel you there, I find myself in the middle taking flak from both sides often.

 

I agree with the US assessment too. The sadness is that the two-party system creates a continuous "lesser evil" choice, and for me, there's only one option when the other party is taking steps toward an authoritarian system even though I also am disappointed by the extreme identity politics on the far left. I also see that the left is fueling the extreme right to a large extent. It takes two to tango. I also acknowledge that there is a lot of rightful disillusion to the political process and institution which demagogs have fueled even more. I don't either want to by any means dehumanize and not especially demonize people on the right side of the spectrum but to understand and have a dialogue with them. I have friends there too.

 

In my homeland, my political views lie in the center-right and I have shuffled between a couple of parties when voting. In the US, I'm center-left and with some issues probably even more left. Liberal in values but I also value tradition, family values, and institutions.

[TwoMisfits]

So, there's this movie...and I did see it tonight.  And I'm gonna review it as a movie.  And I will admit at the get go, since I knew what the ending scene was, I did not stay, leaving when the actor scroll started, so I could just review the movie as it was.

 

And it was GOOD!!  Was it great - no.  But, it was a solid B/B- movie according to myself and my spouse.  

 

What did it get right...

1. It maintains its mood from start to finish - it is dour, it is solemn, but man, it is immersive.  It reminded me of Denzel's The Little Things, that way.  Not that they are anything alike plotwise, but you just get relentless dourness - it never lets up.  For the plot told, it's the right call.

2. It maintains its tone from start to finish - there's no whipsaw - it's not a happy movie, and it stays not a happy movie.  

3. The kid actors shine.  They really do.  I hope to see them working more as teens b/c it's been 5 years, and maybe this movie will be their break.

4. The story.  It didn't think too big,  It's ultimately at its core a story of 2 dads and 2 kids.  The simplicity of the core helps hang the movie well.  It's a very dense story, but it progresses A-B-C and wraps in a really well done way.

 

What it did wrong...

1, It's slow - it just is.  It's the 1st thing my spouse and I said to each other.

2. It needed to cut 15 minutes.  While some movies never let scenes breathe, this movie went way the other way.  Again, this was shared by my spouse and I.  It could be the same movie with all the same scenes, just shorter.  So, its pacing is consistent, but just consistently too long.

 

Am I glad to see it - yes.  It's a good movie just as a movie, without any additional "stuff."  Would I tell others to see it - yes.  As much as I'd tell them to watch Spidey - no.  Spidey was an A movie, this one's a B - Spidey is better.  But if you watch more than one movie a year, well, this can happily (or not so happily) fill in as another one.

Edited July 11, 2023 by TwoMisfits