The Marvel / MCU Thread || From Blade to Secret Wars, All Things Marvel!

[Bob Train]

4 minutes ago, Sckathian said:

Him and Wanda are coming off:

 

Infinity War - 2Bn

End Game - 2.8Bn

No Way Home - 1.9Bn

 

No one gave a fuck that there might be a Fantastic Four cameo other than 5% of the audience. 

Guardians or Thor being in IW and EG didn't automatically give them a $187m OW. 

[Kon]

4 hours ago, HummingLemon496 said:

Why do people complain about plot holes/scripting in Multiverse of Madness but not in No Way Home? For every dumb thing in Multiverse of Madness there is an even dumber thing in No Way Home. 

No Way Home gave people what they wanted, while Multiverse of Madness ruined a character they like.

 

Honestly, I'm pretty sure Wanda was the reason why Multiverse of Madness has a so big box office. So, her treatment in this movie wouldn't have a good reception.

 

 

PS: Ironically, I think WandaVision (a Disney+ show) really helped Wanda's popularity. 

[Kon]

1 hour ago, HummingLemon496 said:

Doctor Strange is popular. . .but he's not "$187M opening weekend" level popular. Cameo hype shot it into the stratosphere. A normal Doctor Strange sequel post-Endgame would open to like $120-130M maybe idk

 

I think Xavier (with Foxverse implications) and Reed Richards(a new acror for F4)  appearances increased the hype. However, it was because the audience didn't know their roles will be so short.

 

In fact, thanks to MoM, the general audience no longer trusts the multiverse cameos to have any relevance.

 

Do you see someone really interested in Beast cameo in postcredit scene of The Marvels?

Edited November 20, 2023 by Kon

[Halberstram]

3 hours ago, HummingLemon496 said:

The main problem with DS2, compared to NWH, was the high points were nowhere near as satisfying and main crux of the conflict relies on a grown woman being mentally challenged?

[Reed121]

6 hours ago, HummingLemon496 said:

I never bought this whole "MCU is dying" crap back in mid-late 2022 because it was mostly just people being mad that they "ruined Wanda" in Multiverse of Madness are how there were "too many jokes" in Love and Thunder (seriously, where the fuck was r/boxoffice to proclaim the death of the MCU when Age of Ultron and Civil War both had poor legs in 2015/2016?)

 

. . .but now I actually believe and think it is 100% true it with The Marvels becoming probably the biggest bomb of all time.  The Marvels is doing to do less in its entire domestic total than what DS2 did in its fucking OPENING DAY. That right there is an actual collapse. This saga is completely cursed with middling reception, a bazillion damn TV shows, and absolutely no clear structure or plan.

 

And man it still shocks me how insane Doctor Strange 2 did. $36M previews. $90M opening day. Goliath $187M opening weekend. MoM's OW will be higher than the domestic total of every live action CBM in 2023 except for Ant-Man 3 and GOTG 3. And that was just with one character, not a huge team up with 10 characters like Avengers 2 or Civil War. Multiverse of Madness absolutely demolished Phase 1 and 2 in terms of box office gross. 

It didn’t just have one character. It had Spider-Man and followed No Way Home and there were rumours of many cameos from other movies/universes. There was even a rumour about Tom Cruise being in it as Iron Man. 
It wasn’t really a true Doctor Strange solo movie.

Edited November 20, 2023 by Reed121

[BadOlCatSylvester]

Multiverse of Madness getting the opening it got was a perfect storm. It was advertised as a sequel to No Way Home, one of the biggest cinematic events of all time. It was coming off of, barring Eternals and the Disney+ finales, a pretty good year for the Marvel brand. And much like WandaVision and the aforementioned No Way Home before it, it used cockteasing to its fullest potential during its promotional cycle. Unfortunately Marvel got too cocky and decided to put in some pretty sensitive stuff to the trailers, such as spoiling Patrick Stewart's Xavier returning. That especially raised expectations for everyone, and it blew up in Marvel's face in a humiliating way when the movie just didn't live up to that and everyone hated it, thus the B+ CinemaScore and the steep drops in the coming weeks. I'll always argue that was the beginning of the end for Marvel's dominance. That was the first time the audience was severely let down by a Marvel movie, and not merely divided like they were in response to previous lesser stories. They should've started course correcting as soon as the initial response was in, but they didn't, and now they're responsible for quite possibly the biggest flop of all time^{at least until Captain America 4 gets devoured by its $300M+ budget}. Hopefully future hotshots are paying close attention to this collapse and won't make the same mistakes once their turn in the spotlight comes.

[Reed121]

I think some people were disappointed Wakanda Forever  didn’t open higher than 181m. A year later it looks incredible especially when it followed Multiverse of Madness and Thor Love and Wonder.
 

About Deadpool 3 which cameos are going to excite people? Fox X- Men characters? We’ve already seen Stewart’s Xavier. A Wesley Snipes Blade cameo would generate more hype than X-Men characters.

 

[JustLurking]

On 11/17/2023 at 4:26 AM, keysersoze123 said:

 

...am I tripping or was mads not already in the MCU? didn't he play the villain in Strange1?

[BadOlCatSylvester]

2 minutes ago, JustLurking said:

...am I tripping or was mads not already in the MCU? didn't he play the villain in Strange1?

He did, yes. Then again, Gemma Chan was also already in the franchise in a bit part and was brought back for Eternals, so there is precedent.

[SpiderByte]

It's Campea, so ... yeah. Grain of salt.

 

 

 

 

[Napoleon]

20 hours ago, Daxtreme said:

I know this isn't a Marvel vs DC thread but DC can't possibly be happy with The Marvels flopping like this?

 

I mean, outside of fans of course. DC fans are probably over the moon. But DC as a studio are probably worried by this. 

 

This is a bad omen for the genre, and for them by extension. A rising tide rises all ships and all that.

We’re seeing these movies having lower opening weekends and breaking 2nd weekend drop records, it’s clear there’s a problem with the genre as a whole. The performance of The Marvels is just more evidence of that, because when it happened with Morbius or The Flash we were acting like it was just WB and Sony being messy as always, but no one ever expected an MCU movie to do even worse. 
 

I used to say James Gunn should have the opportunity to prove his ability to build a cinematic universe, but at this point I totally understand if WB gets nervous and demands some changes to his plans. Movies for The Authority and Supergirl, and several related TV shows, not to mention the director of The Flash at the helm of yet another new version of Batman, this is sounding like a very risky idea now.

[BadOlCatSylvester]

9 minutes ago, Napoleon said:

We’re seeing these movies having lower opening weekends and breaking 2nd weekend drop records, it’s clear there’s a problem with the genre as a whole. The performance of The Marvels is just more evidence of that, because when it happened with Morbius or The Flash we were acting like it was just WB and Sony being messy as always, but no one ever expected an MCU movie to do even worse. 
 

I used to say James Gunn should have the opportunity to prove his ability to build a cinematic universe, but at this point I totally understand if WB gets nervous and demands some changes to his plans. Movies for The Authority and Supergirl, and several related TV shows, not to mention the director of The Flash at the helm of yet another new version of Batman, this is sounding like a very risky idea now.

I'm still doubtful anything beyond Superman ever gets made. As I've said time and time again, this new DC universe feels like another pump-and-dump scheme by Zaslav to raise Warner's value for any potential buyers. Neither that, nor the Harry Potter reboot are going to be his concerns by the time he's done sucking Warner dry and offloads it to someone else. Who's to say Warner's next buyer won't want their own guy in charge of DC and jettisons whatever Gunn has planned in the name of corporate pride? But I do agree that if whoever's in charge of Warner by then sticks to these plans, then they should slam the breaks and halt development of any future projects until Superman is out. They can't just charge headfirst into a franchise without knowing if there's any actual demand for it or not.

[TwoMisfits]

10 hours ago, SpiderByte said:

Neither does shitcanning projects, including several theyve already shot, because some people decided they didn't like them in advance. How do you people see shit like Coyote vs Acme and think "this is a successful strategy that makes the people making these decisions look trustworthy and competent". It doesn't fucking work!

 

It's not shit-canning to announce all the finished projects, sans Deadpool, as direct to D+ movies under their new "you don't need to watch this" label.  Looking at this board, it's roughly what more than 1/2 of the potential Disney supers audience thinks of them anyway.

 

I mean, if they are SO bad that they ARE too expensive to save, yes, just shitcan them.  At some point, 10s and 100s of millions of dollars down the drain to save something is still 10s and 100s of millions of dollars down the drain,

 

And when you do, put it down as a lesson learned that someone needs to write a script and a story worthy of an MCU movie before a penny is spent on filming.

Edited November 20, 2023 by TwoMisfits

[SpiderByte]

38 minutes ago, TwoMisfits said:

It's not shit-canning to announce all the finished projects, sans Deadpool, as direct to D+ movies

Lol, zero percent chance they make Captain America 4 a Disney+ movie. Not happening.

 

38 minutes ago, TwoMisfits said:

I mean, if they are SO bad that they ARE too expensive to save, yes, just shitcan them.

It is mystifying to me that people on here (and yes, here specifically, this attitude does not exist in a major way in any other online space I've seen) see the reactions to WBs write-offs, which actively damage their reputation with people interested in working with them and makes the leadership look like out of touch incomplete buffoons, as something that other studios should want to emulate.

 

There are 3 sequences in Cap 4 they think aren't working. They delayed the movie a year to rewrite and reshoot those sequences. I genuinely have no fucking idea why that is being considered a bad thing considering how much godforsaken whining people have been saying about Marvel needing to delay everything. They did!

Edited November 20, 2023 by SpiderByte

[TwoMisfits]

21 minutes ago, SpiderByte said:

Lol, zero percent chance they make Captain America 4 a Disney+ movie. Not happening.

 

It is mystifying to me that people on here (and yes, here specifically, this attitude does not exist in a major way in any other online space I've seen) see the reactions to WBs write-offs, which actively damage their reputation with people interested in working with them and makes the leadership look like out of touch incomplete buffoons, as something that other studios should want to emulate.

 

There are 3 sequences in Cap 4 they think aren't working. They delayed the movie a year to rewrite and reshoot those sequences. I genuinely have no fucking idea why that is being considered a bad thing considering how much godforsaken whining people have been saying about Marvel needing to delay everything. They did!

 

Correction, they have an entire movie not working b/c it got terrible test scores, and they are hoping rewriting 3 large sequences will somehow improve it to the point of savability and decent quality.  In a movie with characters who few in the fandom actually care about and will pay to see.

 

So, they ARE throwing tens of millions of dollars to try to save a movie that they shot already in full for a character that isn't currently popular. 

 

This is the paradigmatic example of throwing good money after bad.  Even if they improve the movie and save it, how many more people will end up watching this movie outside of the new "lower level base" which The Marvels is establishing?  What GA will show for a $15-$20 ticket to a movie that they already heard sucks for a character who isn't the one in the role they liked and who had a REALLY badly scripted D+ series to ruin his momentum already?

 

I can tell you - it will be less than Ant3 DOM, no matter the final quality now b/c word got out about its current quality.  So, we are solely talking about the difference between a Marvels finish and an Ant 3 finish, or $100Mish DOM...and that's not worth the risk of all that money and time...

Edited November 20, 2023 by TwoMisfits

[SpiderByte]

7 minutes ago, TwoMisfits said:

What GA will show for a $15-$20 ticket to a movie that they already heard sucks

Somehow I get the feeling the vast majority of the planet don't read variety. I really don't think in 2025 people will care about the reactions of a two year old cut of the movie that they didn't see, that isnt a cut that's actually in theaters. Despite that being what people do here, people don't decide to boycott movies two years before release of even a trailer.

Edited November 20, 2023 by SpiderByte

[PlatnumRoyce]

1 hour ago, TwoMisfits said:

 

It's not shit-canning to announce all the finished projects, sans Deadpool, as direct to D+ movies under their new "you don't need to watch this" label.  Looking at this board, it's roughly what more than 1/2 of the potential Disney supers audience thinks of them anyway.

 

I mean, if they are SO bad that they ARE too expensive to save, yes, just shitcan them.  At some point, 10s and 100s of millions of dollars down the drain to save something is still 10s and 100s of millions of dollars down the drain,

 

And when you do, put it down as a lesson learned that someone needs to write a script and a story worthy of an MCU movie before a penny is spent on filming.

I mean, that's going to also generate AWFUL press for whatever the next Avengers film is called especially because they're still going to be contractually obligated to pay the stars to appear. 

 

"You don't need to watch this" label also get INCREDIBLY muddy if you mix "people from movies" with stuff like Moon Knight or Ms. Marvel. "The Hulk smashing up a cool location" is just obviously not the same thing as Echo or even She-Hulk. Seems like D+ would be worst of all worlds.

[Reed121]

9 minutes ago, TwoMisfits said:

 

Correction, they have an entire movie not working b/c it got terrible test scores, and they are hoping rewriting 3 large sequences will somehow improve it to the point of savability and decent quality.  In a movie with characters who few in the fandom actually care about and will pay to see.

 

So, they ARE throwing tens of millions of dollars to try to save a movie that they shot already in full for a character that isn't currently popular. 

 

This is the paradigmatic example of throwing good money after bad.  Even if they improve the movie and save it, how many more people will end up watching this movie outside of the new "lower level base" which The Marvels is establishing?  What GA will show for a $15-$20 ticket to a movie that they already heard sucks for a character who isn't the one in the role they liked and who had a REALLY badly scripted D+ series to ruin his momentum already?

 

I can tell you - it will be less than Ant3 DOM, no matter the final quality now b/c word got out about its current quality.  So, we are solely talking about the difference between a Marvels finish and an Ant 3 finish, or $100Mish DOM...and that's not worth the risk of all that money and time...

The problem is the Captain America movie is probably connected to The Thunderbolts who they apparently have plans for. So they need the Captain America movie to have a decent reception to give The Thunderbolts movie a chance to not bomb. 

[SpiderByte]

I don't think Spotlight is "you don't need to watch this", it's meant for more obscure characters so people unfamiliar with them don't have to worry about needing to catch up on them.

[Kon]

11 minutes ago, Reed121 said:

The problem is the Captain America movie is probably connected to The Thunderbolts who they apparently have plans for. So they need the Captain America movie to have a decent reception to give The Thunderbolts movie a chance to not bomb. 

 

I really hope Thundetbolts don't depend on Captain America. That could kill any opportunity for that movie.

 

Honestly, they've already spend too much on Captain America. So, they will need to release that movie in hope to recpver something. However, I don't know how Disney/Marvel could generate interest on Sam as Captain America.

 

The best opportunity for Thundetbolts is introducing the characters to the audience. The promotion shouldn't make the audience feel that watching the previous Disney+ shows is necessary.

 

Thunderbolts has the luck their members names (except Winter Soldier) don't appear in Disney+ shows titles, so people wouldn't inherently feel they need to see the shows.

Edited November 20, 2023 by Kon