Weekend Thread | The Boy and The Heron $12.97M, Godzilla -1.0 $8.59M

[MovieMan89]

I don’t think there’s anyway you can go against nostalgia for Wish when it is maybe the only Disney marketing campaign ever built explicitly around the concept. Beyond that, the Disney 100 stuff is apparently far more than a marketing ploy and is strung throughout the film in the form of odd callbacks from my understanding. 

[WorkingonaName]

Was any hit this year nostalgic? 

[MovieMan89]

Just now, WorkingonaName said:

Was any hit this year nostalgic? 

Weren’t there stats this year that showed an absurd percentage of women played with Barbies as girls? 

[ZeroHour]

6 minutes ago, Eric Wonka said:

 

Movies can be toy commercials, but not be nostalgic toy commercials. It’s not a sequel or based off an already existing and nostalgic property. The line is pretty blurry for this film than most, yeah, but there’s arguments for and against. I feel you could go against.

I agree. Especially since beyond “here’s another Disney fairytale musical” most of the marketing materials didn’t play up nostalgia elements. If they had done a 90 minute version of the Once Upon a Studio short, that would have probably done much better and been a clearer nostalgia play. 

[Bob Train]

4 minutes ago, WorkingonaName said:

Was any hit this year nostalgic? 

I think people conflate success with nostalgia.

[MovieMan89]

2 minutes ago, ZeroHour said:

I agree. Especially since beyond “here’s another Disney fairytale musical” most of the marketing materials didn’t play up nostalgia elements. If they had done a 90 minute version of the Once Upon a Studio short, that would have probably done much better and been a clearer nostalgia play. 

That actually sounds a lot better than some of the spoilers I’ve read about how Wish tried to ref and tie-in the WDAS canon… 

[Eric S'ennui]

Just now, WorkingonaName said:

Was any hit this year nostalgic? 

Uh…yeah? Barbie was “look it’s the toy you saw as a child. Buy our toys.” Mario was “it’s the games you played as a kid. Buy the toys.” MCU has gone on long enough that the kids who saw Iron Man or Avengers back then have grown up. So there’s Guardians 3 and Quantumania right there. Spider-Man is also a nostalgic property, so there is Spider-Verse right there. Little Mermaid, obvious one. The Taylor Swift tour sold itself on people who remember all her old songs and there was tons of merch based on the concert movie. So of the top 10, we got…two that don’t fit the bill.

 

So yeah. Pretty easy to say almost all the hits (not all ofc) were, in some part, based on nostalgia. So there you go,

[ZeroHour]

5 minutes ago, WorkingonaName said:

Was any hit this year nostalgic? 

Mario for sure. That movie was built entirely around member berries. 

[WorkingonaName]

1 minute ago, Eric Wonka said:

Uh…yeah? Barbie was “look it’s the toy you saw as a child. Buy our toys.” Mario was “it’s the games you played as a kid. Buy the toys.” MCU has gone on long enough that the kids who saw Iron Man or Avengers back then have grown up. So there’s Guardians 3 and Quantumania right there. Spider-Man is also a nostalgic property, so there is Spider-Verse right there. Little Mermaid, obvious one. The Taylor Swift tour sold itself on people who remember all her old songs and there was tons of merch based on the concert movie. So of the top 10, we got…two that don’t fit the bill.

 

So yeah. Pretty easy to say almost all the hits (not all ofc) were, in some part, based on nostalgia. So there you go,

Everything is nostalgic on that logic. 

[MovieMan89]

There was a lot of nostalgia with the big hits, but it’s still a million times better than the endless tired sequels. Because this time most of the stuff was new and fresh nostalgia rather than warmed over death and served to you for the 15th time in a decade. I will take it. 

[ban1o]

1 hour ago, WorkingonaName said:

Was any hit this year nostalgic? 

Hunger games?? Little Mermaid? 

Edited December 10, 2023 by ban1o

[titanic2187]

1 hour ago, WorkingonaName said:

Everything is nostalgic on that logic. 

Precisely, I never seen Mario or Barbie or TGM as a simple nostalgic hit. 

 

Mario, Barbie, avatar 2, Oppenheimer, TGM all proved that people are into something they know but still feel fresh, all the movies I mentioned was part of the widely know brand not overexposed or exploited. That is how they come in balance as something familiar yet fresh.  

[AniNate]

Given how Wish actually does seem to be doing pretty solid business overseas, I feel like there's a distinctly American brand of cynicism towards Disney right now which ended up dooming it domestically. I'm convinced everyone had their knives out for the movie going into it, and just weren't going to buy into what they were going for no matter how well it was executed. They've been in the news for a lot of not good reasons the last couple years, and I definitely think that was on the minds of many influential tastemakers. 

 

 

Edited December 10, 2023 by AniNate

[Spidey Freak]

2 hours ago, titanic2187 said:

Precisely, I never seen Mario or Barbie or TGM as a simple nostalgic hit. 

 

Mario, Barbie, avatar 2, Oppenheimer, TGM all proved that people are into something they know but still feel fresh, all the movies I mentioned was part of the widely know brand not overexposed or exploited. That is how they come in balance as something familiar yet fresh.  

 

The cynic in me thinks nostalgia played a larger role in Barbie and Mario's success. Even Barbie's original story wouldn't have helped an original character like Tyra Banks's role in Life-Sized.

 

FNAF too majorly owes it's success to nostalgia among Gen Z

Edited December 10, 2023 by Spidey Freak

[Sckathian]

4 hours ago, ban1o said:

Hunger games?? Little Mermaid? 

Hunger Games is an origin. I don’t think we can start putting sequels/prequels is the nostalgia box.

[Arlborn]

2 hours ago, AniNate said:

Given how Wish actually does seem to be doing pretty solid business overseas, I feel like there's a distinctly American brand of cynicism towards Disney right now which ended up dooming it domestically. I'm convinced everyone had their knives out for the movie going into it, and just weren't going to buy into what they were going for no matter how well it was executed. They've been in the news for a lot of not good reasons the last couple years, and I definitely think that was on the minds of many influential tastemakers. 

 

 

The clear impression I got from the reviews is that critics disliked that Disney was essentially congratulating itself with this movie.

 

A lot of them felt the nostalgia play was too on the nose and there was literally nothing else going for it besides that, as the story was predictable and the songs were mostly just decent, without a clear break out (a couple of them have heavy rotations in my house though). 
 

I feel once the meh reviews came out, the single adults who go watch good animations from Pixar and Disney decided to skip it due to its perceived bad quality, and the adults with kids made a decision to take their kids to watch Trolls instead, as they figure Wish will be on Disney+ soon anyway, and that’s very much Disney’s fault for training people to expect stuff to appear on Disney+ quickly.

 

1 hour ago, Spidey Freak said:

 

The cynic in me thinks nostalgia played a larger role in Barbie and Mario's success. Even Barbie's original story wouldn't have helped an original character like Tyra Banks's role in Life-Sized.

 

FNAF too majorly owes it's success to nostalgia among Gen Z

It’s not just about nostalgia, it’s simply about being a recognizable IP. Most hits this year were something recognizable, that’s the trend.

[TMP]

6 hours ago, Eric Wonka said:

Uh…yeah? Barbie was “look it’s the toy you saw as a child. Buy our toys.” Mario was “it’s the games you played as a kid. Buy the toys.” MCU has gone on long enough that the kids who saw Iron Man or Avengers back then have grown up. So there’s Guardians 3 and Quantumania right there. Spider-Man is also a nostalgic property, so there is Spider-Verse right there. Little Mermaid, obvious one. The Taylor Swift tour sold itself on people who remember all her old songs and there was tons of merch based on the concert movie. So of the top 10, we got…two that don’t fit the bill.

 

So yeah. Pretty easy to say almost all the hits (not all ofc) were, in some part, based on nostalgia. So there you go,

Correlation is not causation

[Kon]

4 hours ago, titanic2187 said:

Precisely, I never seen Mario or Barbie or TGM as a simple nostalgic hit. 

 

Mario, Barbie, avatar 2, Oppenheimer, TGM all proved that people are into something they know but still feel fresh, all the movies I mentioned was part of the widely know brand not overexposed or exploited. That is how they come in balance as something familiar yet fresh.  

 

Barbie and Mario are still nostalgic hits, because one of the main attractives was the nostalgia for the brand.

 

You could think these are more fresh because these aren't overxposed or exploited (yet), but that wouldn't change it depends on nostalgia.

[Brainbug]

Im sorry, extremely long post incoming:

 

For what its worth, i do understand what @Eric Wonka means with his nostalgic toy commercials and there is certainly a lot of truth to the argument that audiences today like to play it safe with movies, i. e. they want the air of familiarity and like to see properties that they already know. But i do think that we shoudnt equate everything with nostalgia per se just because its a well-known property/IP of some sort. As an example, lets compare the top 5 of 2023 to the Top 5 of 2003 (DOM) and see what the problem with that is:

 

I have put some parts under spoiler tags so the post gets a little bit shorter lol

 

Spoiler

2023:

 

01. Barbie - ofc its a toy-based movie and especially Women and girls of all ages have nostalgia for it. But its also a timely comedy about gender roles and the hardships both women and men face in society. People may came for nostalgic reasons, but they stayed for the movies story and overall quality. So i personally woudnt say that nostalgia is the main reason for Barbies success, it was just one of many reasons. After all, the insane WOM it got, wasnt based on "Hey, go see Barbie because you liked playing with the toys as well, or?", it was "Hey, go see Barbie, its a great movie!"

 

02. Super Mario - this fits the bill much better imo. Everyone growing up in the 80s, 90s, 2000s is nostalgic for Mario games.

 

03. Across the Spider-Verse: I personally dont buy the argument that this movie was succesfull jsut because people are nostalgic for Spider-Man in general. People are nostalgic about Tobeys Spider-Man, thats one of the biggest reasons No Way Home was a smash hit. But Miles Morales? No, this was a big hit because Into the Spider-Verse was a phenomenal and beloved movie and people wanted to see the sequel. It has imo less to do with nostalgia and way more with the proven concept "Make great first movie --> make big bank with second movie", similar for example to PotC, where Dead Mens Chest exploded after the first one was so good.

 

05. Oppenheimer - nothing about this is nostalgic. Oh? Maybe something is! Yes, you could argue that people are nostalgic about Nolan films in general, so thats why they saw Oppy. Though that woudnt be an argument that convinces me one bit. People saw it simply because its a great movie (and the whole Barbenheimer hype ofc).

 

04. GOTG Volume 3 - heres the thing: Ofc there is already some nostalgia about GOTG and the early phase of Marvel movies (when they were still good you know), but if we say that all of that is just nostalgia, then every single sequel that is ever released is based on nostalgia as well. And i dont think that this is a good argument, especially if the release of the prior movie (GOTG 2 in this case) was just 6 years ago and not 16. People saw this because they like these characters and wanted to know how this trilogy ends.

 

Not lets look at 2003:

 

Spoiler

01. Finding Nemo - definetly a nostalgic toy commercial!!! People only saw this because they were nostalgic about Pixar movies like Toy Story or ... a Bugs Life!

 

02. PotC: Curse of the Black Pearl: Definetly a nostalgic toy commerical!! People only saw this because they were nostalgic about the theme park rides at DisneyWorld and they were also nostalgic about pirate movies!!

 

03. The Matric Reloaded: Definetly a nostalgic toy commercial!! People only wanted to see this because they were nostalgic about the first movie and they deeply wanted to buy those Neo action figures!!!!

 

04. LotR: Return of the King: Definetly a nostalgic toy commerical!!! People only saw this because they were nostlagic about the LotR book and the animated movie from decades ago! They only saw it because they wanted to buy Aragorn toys!!!

 

05. Bruce Almighty - definetly a nostalgic toy commercial!! People only wanted to see this because they were nostalgic about the prior Jim Carrey movies!!!

 

Imo, i think itc clear what the problem with the overall argument is - you could name any big movie from any era and just say: "Its based on nostalgia!!" and you could argue for that. But thats such a narrow look at why movies are successes in my opinion. There are so many more factors like novelty, overall quality, time of release, timely cultural climate or pre-release hype that just get ignored by this sentiment.

 

Nostalgia is without question a big driving force in modern cinema. But it is not the only reason why certain movies are so succesfull (or not succesfull) in the last decade or so. Its just one of many reasons in my opinion.

Edited December 10, 2023 by Brainbug

[Kon]

4 minutes ago, Brainbug said:

Im sorry, extremely long post incoming:

 

For what its worth, i do understand what @Eric Wonka means with his nostalgic toy commercials and there is certainly a lot of truth to the argument that audiences today like to play it safe with movies, i. e. they want the air of familiarity and like to see properties that they already know. But i do think that we shoudnt equate everything with nostalgia per se just because its a well-known property/IP of some sort. As an example, lets compare the top 5 of 2023 to the Top 5 of 2003 (DOM) and see what the problem with that is:

 

I have put some parts under spoiler tags so the post gets a little bit shorter lol

 

  Reveal hidden contents

2023:

 

01. Barbie - ofc its a toy-based movie and especially Women and girls of all ages have nostalgia for it. But its also a timely comedy about gender roles and the hardships both women and men face in society. People may came for nostalgic reasons, but they stayed for the movies story and overall quality. So i personally woudnt say that nostalgia is the main reason for Barbies success, it was just one of many reasons. After all, the insane WOM it got, wasnt based on "Hey, go see Barbie because you liked playing with the toys as well, or?", it was "Hey, go see Barbie, its a great movie!"

 

02. Super Mario - this fits the bill much better imo. Everyone growing up in the 80s, 90s, 2000s is nostalgic for Mario games.

 

03. Across the Spider-Verse: I personally dont buy the argument that this movie was succesfull jsut because people are nostalgic for Spider-Man in general. People are nostalgic about Tobeys Spider-Man, thats one of the biggest reasons No Way Home was a smash hit. But Miles Morales? No, this was a big hit because Into the Spider-Verse was a phenomenal and beloved movie and people wanted to see the sequel. It has imo less to do with nostalgia and way more with the proven concept "Make great first movie --> make big bank with second movie", similar for example to PotC, where Dead Mens Chest exploded after the first one was so good.

 

05. Oppenheimer - nothing about this is nostalgic. Oh? Maybe something is! Yes, you could argue that people are nostalgic about Nolan films in general, so thats why they saw Oppy. Though that woudnt be an argument that convinces me one bit. People saw it simply because its a great movie (and the whole Barbenheimer hype ofc).

 

04. GOTG Volume 3 - heres the thing: Ofc there is already some nostalgia about GOTG and the early phase of Marvel movies (when they were still good you know), but if we say that all of that is just nostalgia, then every single sequel that is ever released is based on nostalgia as well. And i dont think that this is a good argument, especially if the release of the prior movie (GOTG 2 in this case) was just 6 years ago and not 16. People saw this because they like these characters and wanted to know how this trilogy ends.

 

Not lets look at 2003:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

01. Finding Nemo - definetly a nostalgic toy commercial!!! People only saw this because they were nostalgic about Pixar movies like Toy Story or ... a Bugs Life!

 

02. PotC: Curse of the Black Pearl: Definetly a nostalgic toy commerical!! People only saw this because they were nostalgic about the theme park rides at DisneyWorld and they were also nostalgic about pirate movies!!

 

03. The Matric Reloaded: Definetly a nostalgic toy commercial!! People only wanted to see this because they were nostalgic about the first movie and they deeply wanted to buy those Neo action figures!!!!

 

04. LotR: Return of the King: Definetly a nostalgic toy commerical!!! People only saw this because they were nostlagic about the LotR book and the animated movie from decades ago! They only saw it because they wanted to buy Aragorn toys!!!

 

05. Bruce Almighty - definetly a nostalgic toy commercial!! People only wanted to see this because they were nostalgic about the prior Jim Carrey movies!!!

 

Imo, i think itc clear what the problem with the overall argument is - you could name any big movie from any era and just say: "Its based on nostalgia!!" and you could argue for that. But thats such a narrow look at why movies are successes in my opinion. There are so many more factors like novelty, overall quality, time of release, timely cultural climate or pre-release hype that just get ignored by this sentiment.

 

Nostalgia is without question a big driving force in modern cinema. But it is not the only reason why certain movies are so succesfull (or not succesfull) in the last decade or so. Its just one of many reasons in my opinion.

 

I don't understand your examples of 2003. These movies weren't driven by nostalgia (unless you consider a pretty recent movie as nostalgia). The closer is LOTR, but I don't think the brand was so mainstream before the movies.

 

The point about nostalgia hits in 2023 is that movie audience seems to be only interested into movies belonging to a strong nostalgic IP. If the big hits in 2023 didn't belong to a brand, the movies wouldn't reach that level.

 

For example: Barbie could have good quality in writing, but it would likely be a big success even it played extremely safe (like Mario). That's because the promotion on the brand really called attention from the people.