NEW YEAR weekend

[Valonqar]

34 minutes ago, ThomasNicole said:

IMO The Flops:

1. The Marvels 

2. The Flash 

3. Wish 

4. Indy 5 

5. Haunted Mansion 

6. Mission Impossible 

7. Fast X 

8. The Little Mermaid

9. Napoleon 

10. Killers Of The Flower Moon 

 

 

 

Fixed it for you. If a movie doesn't break even it's a flop. Whether it missed by a hair or by 100M, it's a flop. We can divide them into flops and megaflops but flop's a flop. Budgets are simply out of control since movies that made 500M+ are now flops. 

[Scubasteve716]

43 minutes ago, ThomasNicole said:

IMO The Flops:

1. The Marvels 

2. The Flash 

3. Wish 

4. Indy 5 

5. Haunted Mansion 

 

The somewhat decent but disappointing performances:

1. Mission Impossible 

2. Fast X 

3. The Little Mermaid

4. Napoleon 

5. Killers Of The Flower Moon 

 

The surprising “hits” that was supposed to bomb: 

1. Elemental 

2. Hunger Games 

3. Transformers 

4. Meg 2 

5. Insidious 5 (don’t remember anyone thinking it would do 100M much less 200M).

Insidious 5's budget was 16 million. I don't see how it was supposed to be a bomb if it made $0 it still wouldn't have been a bomb. 

[ringedmortality]

14 minutes ago, Valonqar said:

but festival critics acted like it was EEAAO 2.0 and it totally isn't unless I'm missing something. 

 

What are you even talking about.

[John2015]

15 minutes ago, Valonqar said:

 

Fixed it for you. If a movie doesn't break even it's a flop. Whether it missed by a hair or by 100M, it's a flop. We can divide them into flops and megaflops but flop's a flop. Budgets are simply out of control since movies that made 500M+ are now flops. 

 

"Napoleon" is not a flop.  It was originally a streaming film, and Apple is happy with the box office performance that they send two other films to Sony to release.

 

 

 

Edited December 31, 2023 by John2015

[ThomasNicole]

17 minutes ago, Valonqar said:

 

Poor Things PTA in 800 theaters is worse than some PTA's from 3000 theaters. It's obvious that only arthouse crowd is carrying that one. The more it expands the emptier the theaters save speciality ones in LA and NYC. Nothing against the movie and rooting for Emma's second win but festival critics acted like it was EEAAO 2.0 and it totally isn't unless I'm missing something. 

Did they? 
 

I’ve saw comparisons with many foreign movies, lots of nods to Fellini and Terry Gilliam but literally not a single serious critic compared it with EEAAO

[WorkingonaName]

Napoleon would have made a profit if ridley had picked up a book.  

[titanic2187]

I still can’t wrap around my head how KoTFM and Napoleon isn’t a flop. I don’t really care what Apple endgame here but if they received worldwide big scale release, it should be judged as one. 
 

Also, people seem to overlook the fact that movie being a flops and whether apple care or can afford these flops are two DIFFERENT matters. Apple doesn’t mind KoTFM and Napoleon going flop theatrically because they have deep pocket shouldn’t be the reason why these two aren’t flop. 
 

 

[Valonqar]

6 minutes ago, ThomasNicole said:

Did they? 
 

I’ve saw comparisons with many foreign movies, lots of nods to Fellini and Terry Gilliam but literally not a single serious critic compared it with EEAAO

 

Yes, they said it was going to be a huge crowd pleaser like EEAAO.

 

1 minute ago, titanic2187 said:

I still can’t wrap around my head how KoTFM and Napoleon isn’t a flop. I don’t really care what Apple endgame here but if they received worldwide big scale release, it should be judged as one. 

 

 

Same. Boxoffice-wise aka theatrical release not streaming coming to the rescue or toys or whatever, they are floppity flops.

[titanic2187]

1 minute ago, Valonqar said:

 

Yes, they said it was going to be a huge crowd pleaser like EEAAO.

 

 

Same. Boxoffice-wise aka theatrical release not streaming coming to the rescue or toys or whatever, they are floppity flops.

People also like to use streaming to argue if a movie should or shouldn’t be seen as flops. Come on, if streaming or home media sales coming into picture, then no movie will ever go flop. It is just a matter of time when a movie can turn profit. We can save all the meltdowns we have all these years over flops. I can even declare the marvels isn’t a flop since sooner or later it will return profit, maybe 20 years later. 

[ThomasNicole]

3 minutes ago, Valonqar said:

 

Yes, they said it was going to be a huge crowd pleaser like EEAAO.

 

 

Same. Boxoffice-wise aka theatrical release not streaming coming to the rescue or toys or whatever, they are floppity flops.

I saw Scott Mendelson saying that and that’s pretty much it. Not to totally discredit his opinion but imo he’s not very good at his job not even in box office commentary, much less as a critic … but fair 

[John2015]

1 minute ago, Valonqar said:

 

Yes, they said it was going to be a huge crowd pleaser like EEAAO.

 

 

Same. Boxoffice-wise aka theatrical release not streaming coming to the rescue or toys or whatever, they are floppity flops.

Then are "Red Notice" and "Glass Onion" two flops?  Both films made less than $20 million at box office, , but Netflix are making sequels of them.

[AniNate]

10 minutes ago, titanic2187 said:

I still can’t wrap around my head how KoTFM and Napoleon isn’t a flop. I don’t really care what Apple endgame here but if they received worldwide big scale release, it should be judged as one. 
 

Also, people seem to overlook the fact that movie being a flops and whether apple care or can afford these flops are two DIFFERENT matters. Apple doesn’t mind KoTFM and Napoleon going flop theatrically because they have deep pocket shouldn’t be the reason why these two aren’t flop. 
 

 

 

From where I sit, words like "flop" and "bomb" carry overly negative connotations that just seem unfair in the context of auteurs shooting for the artistic moon with the full blessing of the distributor. Maybe it does lose money for someone in the short term, but ultimately KOTFM is likely going to have a much longer shelf life in cinematic lore than a lot of "hits". Contrary to popular belief, money isn't always the primary goal in this business.

 

 

Edited December 31, 2023 by AniNate

[Porthos]

1 minute ago, titanic2187 said:

I still can’t wrap around my head how KoTFM and Napoleon isn’t a flop. I don’t really care what Apple endgame here but if they received worldwide big scale release, it should be judged as one. 
 

Also, people seem to overlook the fact that movie being a flops and whether apple care or can afford these flops are two DIFFERENT matters. Apple doesn’t mind KoTFM and Napoleon going flop theatrically because they have deep pocket shouldn’t be the reason why these two aren’t flop. 
 

 

 

The reason people are resistant to calling films like KotFM a flop is because flop has an implied value judgement applied to it.  Just like while mediocre technically means "average" in actual everyday language usage it has an implied value judgement of "slightly bad".

 

Beyond that, some people really do think that expectations should be taken into account in and of itself by applying a "loss leader" viewpoint.  If Apple expected to lose X amount of money as "the cost of doing business"/part of an overall longterm strategy, then calling something like Killers of the Flower Moon "a flop" could be technically accurate but not accurately judge how it's viewed within Hollywood/Cupertino.

 

(Now it is certainly possible that it's losing more money than expected, but I'm staying out of that debate)

 

[YM!]

I mean I’m grateful both KoTFM and Napoleon got wide theatrical releases and were able to make a splash. I could give a shit about how much cash they made, I’m not an Apple shareholder and even if I was. Those two’s box office results are a drop in a bucket.

[joaqs]

I dunno about Killers and Paramount but Napoleon made money for Sony considering it only had a distribution deal. And expecting streaming films to recoup in theaters is kinda dumb. They'll drive subscribers to Apple TV and that's their endgame qhen the green light was given.

[ThePrinceIsOnFire]

Wonka has been costantly overestimated for its whole run so far, every single day. Even this weekend it was projected to do 33M+ 4 days and it's now at 31M+, but I'm sure it will finish under that once the actuals come in. 

I see people expecting it to gross atleast 200M WW more but I don't see how that is possible when the only market it has to still open in is S.Korea and its (festive) INT weekend was 39 M. I'd guess it has about 150 M more, for a total tally of about 530 M WW, give or take.

Edited December 31, 2023 by ThePrinceIsOnFire

[YM!]

3 hours ago, Valonqar said:

 

those 3 movies are more interesting to follow than pretentious movies from Krissy's list.

 

Also congrats to Migration for having the highest PTA beating the crap out of pretentious platform releases.

I would like you to tell me how is Anyone But You pretentious.

[AniNate]

14 minutes ago, Porthos said:

Beyond that, some people really do think that expectations should be taken into account in and of itself by applying a "loss leader" viewpoint.  If Apple expected to lose X amount of money as "the cost of doing business"/part of an overall longterm strategy, then calling something like Killers of the Flower Moon "a flop" could be technically accurate but not accurately judge how it's viewed within Hollywood/Cupertino.

 

I do think the intended spirit of the word "flop" is to summarize how the movie is perceived by its producers, not as some simplistic label based solely on whether or not the publicly reported box office receipts hit a certain magical ratio to the publicly reported budget.

 

 

Edited December 31, 2023 by AniNate

[joaqs]

It's like calling Saltburn a flop when it didn't recoup in theaters but was an absolute smash on Prime Video and even killed all of Netflix's big Christmas releases.

[titanic2187]

11 minutes ago, AniNate said:

 

From where I sit, words like "flop" and "bomb" carry overly negative connotations that just seem unfair in the context of auteurs shooting for the artistic moon with the full blessing of the distributor. Maybe it does lose money for someone in the short term, but ultimately KOTFM is likely going to have a much longer shelf life in cinematic lore than a lot of "hits". Contrary to popular belief, money isn't always the primary goal in this business.

 

 

It is simple, don’t complicate things with context here and there. It is just business. If a product can’t make enough money back to cover its cost, it is  a flop. And this case, no matter how I live KoTFM and that movie is awesome, it is mathematically losing money in theater. Yes, it would have way bigger post-theatrical life just like every other Scorsese movie, yes it is gonna be award juggernaut but those are different matters. There isn’t a “explicit” cash flow going into the project. Yes, overall it may be a win for Apple’s strategy but factually the movie is losing money.