8/12-8/15 Weekdays Thread | It Ends With Us $6.2m Monday

[HummingLemon496]

8 hours ago, Cooper Legion said:

Engaging spin mode: Any schmuck can hit 1B with a truly great movie but it takes a truly impressive franchise to hit 1B with a movie like Dominion  

Yeah $1B on a movie with 29% RT/2.2 LetterBoxd is crazy impressive. 

[YM!]

31 minutes ago, ZattMurdock said:

without counting Deadpool & Wolverine which will obviously raise those numbers.

Because D&W’s run hasn’t finished yet? I mean yeah it’ll raise the multiplier average but is it fair to exclude a film if the run hasn’t finished yes. I mean I agree it jumps up the average some but I get not including it right this second when doing a multiple average.

Edited August 14 by YM!

[YM!]

TLDR on superhero fatigue. Don’t think fatigue is here but I think the heyday of the 2017-19 period is gone mainly because of the zeitgeist of the Infinity Saga. Think the genre is just fine and is about the same as it was within that 2008-16 period. The really good CBMs or the ones with a strong enough hook to the GA do well, and if the others don’t have the juice they underperform. It can rebound if the next few years are strong but it doesn’t really need to.

Edited August 14 by YM!

[Mojoguy]

8 minutes ago, YM! said:

TLDR on superhero fatigue. Don’t think fatigue is here but I think the heyday of the 2017-19 period is gone mainly because of the zeitgeist of the Infinity Saga. Think the genre is just fine and is about the same as it was within that 2008-16 period. The really good CBMs or the ones with a strong enough hook to the GA do well, and if the others don’t have the juice they underperform. It can rebound if the next few years are strong but it doesn’t really need to.

It's not superhero fatigue, it's BAD superhero fatigue. People are being much more picky at which movies they watch which is smart. RT scores are much more important then ever to them. 

[ZattMurdock]

Just now, YM! said:

Because D&W’s run hasn’t finished yet?

Yeah because even then I find the idea of taking the collective of multipliers of the so called superhero genre films - even if the idea of including stuff like Super Pets and Titans Go is as silly as include IDK, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, they are superheroes and based off comic books as well, they don’t need to have a cape or being part of Marvel or DC but still - as proof of the genre frontloadness and worse the superhero fatigue myth short sighted. It’s not much different than the time that me and others underplayed Cameron’s Avatar before Avatar 2, and more important than that I find the rhetoric hurts the box office.

 

We are still very much seeing the rise of streaming and it’s not going away, it’s here to stay regardless how dumb the content they release gets, Max failing isn’t proof that cable will make a return, it’s only proof that WBD was punching much above their weight. We are constantly seeing the rise of not only social media apps that are time sinkers for the general consumers time, but if we are talking strictly streaming, we see the rise of actual slob and bad content like doramas and shit like that while we keep trashing blockbusters like they aren’t true cinema. 
 

I couldn’t have said better than Captain America: Brave New World’s opposing star to Anthony Mackie Tim Blake Nelson:

 

 

Quote

Despite some recent voices to the contrary, prematurely predicting its demise, according to Nelson, one should never “count Marvel out.” 
 

“Marvel is an unheard-of phenomenon in movie history. Kevin Feige and his studio created dozens of connected movies that exist in one cinematic universe, to use their term. There’s no comparable achievement. So no – I don’t think it’s over,” he notes, calling “Captain America” “the most grounded” of MCU franchises – along with “Logan.”

 

“This is going to be a wonderful movie,” he insists. 

 

“I couldn’t respect Martin Scorsese more, he’s his own genre, but I disagree with him when he derides Marvel. I come down on the side of Marvel movies absolutely being cinema. They return us to being kids again. When they are really good, and they often are, you lose yourself in them. Are they profound? Are they ‘Goodfellas’ and ‘Miller’s Crossing,’ are they ‘Bicycle Thieves,’ ‘Schindler’s List’ or Kieślowski? No, but they aren’t aspiring to be. They are entertainment and there’s artistry involved in them.” 

 

Source: https://variety.com/2024/film/news/tim-blake-nelson-captain-america-martin-scorsese-1236102112/

 

When we add the box office phenomenon that Deadpool & Wolverine is and even posing against the box office behemoth that was Avengers: Endgame at the box office, the OWs multipliers for MCU films get much closer than a lot of the discourse here and elsewhere would lead you to think. Of course that if we put trash like The Flash and other poorly received films together with the MCU, the number of the OW multiplier will go down. But just like we can’t put into Pixar’s shoulders the weight of carrying the whole animation genre, same goes for Marvel Studios. Hence why it’s a good thing James Gunn does a good job with the DCU and not poorly received films like the DCEU and the Sony’s joints. Well received superhero films will perform spectacularly at the box office, that’s the lesson we have literally since 2002’s Spider-Man.

 

We might talk about superhero fatigue being an actual thing when Marvel Studios or DC Studios release a critically and public acclaimed film like Fury Road and Furiosa and well, it flops. Hell, Eternals is deemed a flop and still made more than Dune Part 1. There is no paradigm shift, what there is more competition that cinema faces against all other medium forms, from TikTok to streaming. 

[JustLurking]

57 minutes ago, HummingLemon496 said:

I'm just wondering, if you were to put Endgame on this list, where would it go?

Above mario

[HummingLemon496]

1 minute ago, JustLurking said:

Above mario

What specifically makes NWH worse than Endgame

[Bob Train]

16 minutes ago, HummingLemon496 said:

What specifically makes NWH worse than Endgame

Endgame isn't really key jangling like NWH  and didn't use the multiverse

[MysteryMovieMogul]

2 hours ago, ZattMurdock said:

 

Hell, I will do one better, the complaints are cyclical as well.

Sorry, Empire, but that chart doesn't prove anything. The Star Wars sequels were still being controlled by George Lucas. Indiana Jones and its sequels were Lucas/Spielberg. And the other films outside of Batman were brand new ideas. Only now do we consider them major IP.

 

EDIT: And Batman basically jumpstarted Tim Burton's career! He was a director with clear vision!

Edited August 14 by MysteryMovieMogul

[ZattMurdock]

3 minutes ago, MysteryMovieMogul said:

Sorry, Empire, but that chart doesn't prove anything. The Star Wars sequels were still being controlled by George Lucas. Indiana Jones and its sequels were Lucas/Spielberg. And the other films outside of Batman were brand new ideas. Only now do we consider them major IP.

 

EDIT: And Batman basically jumpstarted Tim Burton's career! He was a director with clear vision!

While that is a valid argument, it’s sort of like saying at very least that Barbie wasn’t a major IP before the Barbie film. That’s not true, and while Batman ‘89 was the first serious Batman film, it’s not like Batman ‘66 wasn’t quite popular and even more so Superman ‘78 had proven that superhero films could become actual film blockbusters. 
 

I think to Empire’s point, he is right that the arguments against sequels populating the box office isn’t new. While you are correct that Lucas and Spielberg carried those films qualities, it’s not like those films weren’t incredibly popular while others they did during that time and afterwards weren’t.

 

I see and get your point, but Lucas was the culprit of the paradigm shift with Star Wars back in the 70s, Star Wars is literally the reason that the term blockbuster was coined, so it makes sense that these are the sequels that first dominated the 80s. I don’t see that changing anytime soon either, for good and for worst.

[MysteryMovieMogul]

This is the top domestic films in the 2010s. Nine out of 10 of the films are from pre-existing IP from another creator's vision.  

 

[AnthonyJPHer]

6 minutes ago, MysteryMovieMogul said:

This is the top domestic films in the 2010s. Nine out of 10 of the films are from pre-existing IP from another creator's vision.  

 

Looking at that list is insane. Disney utterly dominated the 2010s

Edited August 14 by AnthonyJPHer

[vale9001]

i don't have a chart but i think biggest movies of the 90s are like Titanic, Indipendence day, saving private ryan, forrest gump, pretty woman, ghost, the sixth sense, the matrix, armageddon, the lion king..all originals- new

 

star wars and indiana jones for how big they were with their third chapter still it was the last chapter in that era of hollywood. Now for fast and furious we have 11 movies with one every 2-3 years plus spin off and everything. 

 

We have universe have made 30 movies in 10 years.

 

You can't really compare even the 80s with our era.

 

I mean the number one movie in the 80s is E.T. Imagine E.T coming now and making 900M dollars domestic like it made at the time counting the inflation. No sequel happened. Now we would get E.T 2 and E.T 3 and E.T 4 in a decade. We all know that right? 😅

 

 

Edited August 14 by vale9001

[HummingLemon496]

Here's something actually interesting:

 

In the entire 2010s, we only got eight $600M+ DOM grossing movies

 

We are only half-ish done with the decade, and we already have six $600M+ DOM grossing movies in the 2020s

 

And there are soooo many upcoming candidates to do $600M+. DOM in the 2020s. We have Zootopia 2, Avatar 3, Doomsday, Secret Wars, Incredibles 3, Shrek 5, Avatar 4. Honestly I think we could have 15+ $600M+ DOM movies in the 2020s.

Edited August 14 by HummingLemon496

[Torontofan]

1 hour ago, HummingLemon496 said:

What specifically makes NWH worse than Endgame

 

 

I think NWH delivered in fan service like endgame which makes up for the flaws the films may have 

 

 

Also endgame and NWH have a heavy emotional heart...which is quite lacking in many recent comic book movies.

 

Like When Spiderman has to give up his love to fix the mistakes he made, gave the film a real emotional angle and it was quite effective.

 

I think the issue is with modern comic book movies is they need to bring back the emotional stakes. 

 

 

 

Edited August 14 by Torontofan

[Mojoguy]

15 minutes ago, MysteryMovieMogul said:

This is the top domestic films in the 2010s. Nine out of 10 of the films are from pre-existing IP from another creator's vision.  

 

People love to complain about MCU. But the MCU has been keeping movie theaters afloat since 2008. Incredible string of hits, with rare misses.

 

Disney already floundered after their 4th and 5th Star Wars film with Solo and TROS.

 

Meanwhile, WB and DCEU never really got off the ground.

Edited August 14 by Mojoguy

[HummingLemon496]

8 minutes ago, Mojoguy said:

People love to complain about MCU. But the MCU has been keeping movie theaters afloat since 2008. Incredible string of hits, with rare misses.

 

Disney already floundered after their 4th and 5th Star Wars film with Solo and TROS.

 

Meanwhile, WB and DCEU never really got off the ground.

If those first couple of DCEU movies were good the top 10 DOM of the 2010s would all be $600M+ movies

[AnthonyJPHer]

3 hours ago, ZattMurdock said:

I disagree with Avengers: Endgame being extremely frontloaded. This comes from not understanding or ignoring that Spider-Man: No Way Home and that film had very different release dates. I’m certain that Avengers just like Star Wars and Avatar would blow up during the holiday season, but I still maintain that the Avengers should dominate and keep the NA’s film of the Summer tradition. It suits that franchise very well.

 

IO2’s legs are indeed insane, but that’s an all ages Pixar phenomenon as much as a box office phenomenon, not really the same as MCU, Star Wars or Avatar films for that matter.

Avengers: Endgame was front loaded though. It opened to 357m in its domestic opening weekend and only ended up grossing 858m, which, while still incredible, is slightly disappointing. It’s only an 2.5x multiplier. Not horrible but very underwhelming. Especially considering all the hype it had, and it couldn’t even beat The Force Awakens despite opening 100m ahead. Heck, it actually grossed almost 100m more than Endgame did. Yes, that had holiday legs, just like No Way Home did (and the only reason I brought that movie up was because it’s the only comparable movie post pandemic that got even close to its domestic gross and had almost equal hype) but Endgame released in early summer with absolutely no competition for weeks and collapsed even during the weekdays in its second week. Black Panther released in February and still grossed over 200m in its opening weekend and managed to have better legs despite massive hype as well behind it, grossing 700m DOM. I’m not downplaying its success or performance (although it might sound like it) but it was front loaded. It wasn’t nearly as front loaded as something like Multiverse of Madness or Batman v Superman though so I’ll give you that. 

Edited August 14 by AnthonyJPHer

[ZattMurdock]

 

[wattage]

3 hours ago, ZattMurdock said:

I’d include A2 and NWH on that, but other than that it’s the gist of it. And like Tim Blake Nelson said recently during SDCC, movie theaters need these films to keep the cinema experience alive. It’s not like sequels to major franchises are a brand new thing to the box office either. 
 

Hell, I will do one better, the complaints are cyclical as well.

5 of 10 of the list are original movies lmao what kind of argument is this. I can't even imagine in the modern day having more than 1 original movie being top 10 for the year, much less it being the number one movie of the year. And for multiple years in a row? Definitely not. Those are IP *now* and they were not when the movies came out. 

 

Unless I'm mistaken and some of these are based on some previously popular book or something? ET, Raiders of the Lost Ark, Ghostbusters, Beverly Hills Cop, Back to The Future.