Batman Returns

[Squaremaster316]

Ugly, cheap and fake (stagey) as hell.

 

Not one trace of cinematic talent can be found.  If you had told me that Tyler Perry cut his teeth in the industry as a 2nd unit director with this film, I'd believe you.

[redfirebird2008]

Exactly why Batman Returns is both very divisive and also stands apart from just about all other superhero film adaptations. For better or ill, it's incredibly unique in its view of Bat's reality and the universe around him. Burton's Gotham's a living, breathing entity. But, again, we all have opinions... And, such being, to each his own.

 

To your initial comment, I agree wholeheartedly. I don't believe that applies to a cinephile as much it applies to the modern casual moviegoer though. A true film fan, whether they dislike Batman Returns or Dark Knight or fill in the blank, appreciates various takes on mythology and icons. I know quite a few that enjoy Batman, Batman Returns, Dark Knight, Batman:The Movie and Batman: Phantasm. They like 'em all for varying reasons. All of the aforementioned seek to entertain and tell Bat's story in their own fashion. A manner true to their voice as animators or filmmakers. It's what makes Batman the most interesting of the adapted to film superhero icons.

 

Even the Schumacher version is valid. Curious to see how the Snyder version turns out. Hoping it will be as good as Burton/Nolan/Timm. If nothing else it will hopefully have better Batman fight scenes than what we have seen in the previous live action versions. Snyder's Nite Owl moved well and kicked a lot of ass in Watchmen.

[Dark 33Legend of the Sith]

I always loved Elfman's score when the Penguin turns and walks away from his parents grave. So dark, creative, and moving.

[Darth Homer]

Just imagine if there was a sequel to Batman Returns that contained all the surreal imagery and psychological depth that made Burton’s movies great, but married to a slightly more coherent and focused plot.

It could still happen (Keaton said he's open to playing the role again), but unfortunately the perfect plot for a belated third movie (a loose adaptation of The Dark Knight Returns) can’t be used because TDKR and BvS have already pilfered the best parts of that story. I’m still kinda pissed that TDKR had Bruce Wayne retiring (way too young) and living happily ever after with Selina Kyle (who he only just met). That should have been the conclusion of Keaton’s Batman story, not Bale’s. If I was writing a third part to Burton's trilogy (it's my dream, don't laugh) I’d make it about Batman taking on one last case – trying to catch the Scarecrow who has escaped from Arkham Asylum and is bumping off notable Gothamites one by one. I’d finally bring in Robin (who’s a girl) as his sidekick and wrap up all the dangling plot threads such as how did Billy Dee Williams’ Harvey Dent become Two-Face, what happened to Selina and most importantly where did all those penguins go after their boss died? 

Keaton deserves one last turn in the Bat costume and since it would take place outside of the regular DC continuity the story could go to some really weird and scary places without pissing off Bat purists. Okay, they’d still be pissed off, but it would be an awesome movie.

[JohnnyGossamer]

Good to this stroke of genius being commented on a mere 5 hours ago. Imperfect masterpiece. It's the like the old saying goes, pretty can never be beautiful but sometimes ugly can be. Hear, hear!

[Squaremaster316]

Pure and utter trash in every single possible measurable aspect.  These films are so far below Nolan's on an artistic and storytelling scale it's mot evem funny.

 

The best part about Nolan's magnificent trilogy, is not just the fact that it makes Burton's abortions seem like the generic, poorly written, style-over-substance messes they truly are, but have allowed the masses to take a look at Burton's entire directorial resume and see it for the overhyped tripe it's been since the Emo version of Edward James Olmos blackened cinema over 3 decades ago. Films like Pee Wee's Big Adventure is being referred to more and more as "Jar Jar Binks: The Prequel" with every passing year, and the vast majority of his Depp collabs have been exposed for the flat, repetitive narratives and cliche stock characters they've always displayed.

 

Congratulations to Christ-opher Johnathan James Nolan for completely expunging Burton's entire filmography from the minds of future film watchers and curb-stomping him right out of pop culture relevance 

[Kalo]

I started watching this several years ago and hated it. however, I am planning on  do an epic Superhero movie review soon of all the Superhero films I've seen best to worst, and I'm going to give this movie another shot. 

[JohnnyGossamer]

[ddddeeee]

 

[JohnnyGossamer]

On 5/6/2016 at 7:55 PM, Squaremaster316 said:

Pure and utter trash in every single possible measurable aspect.  These films are so far below Nolan's on an artistic and storytelling scale it's mot evem funny.

 

The best part about Nolan's magnificent trilogy, is not just the fact that it makes Burton's abortions seem like the generic, poorly written, style-over-substance messes they truly are, but have allowed the masses to take a look at Burton's entire directorial resume and see it for the overhyped tripe it's been since the Emo version of Edward James Olmos blackened cinema over 3 decades ago. Films like Pee Wee's Big Adventure is being referred to more and more as "Jar Jar Binks: The Prequel" with every passing year, and the vast majority of his Depp collabs have been exposed for the flat, repetitive narratives and cliche stock characters they've always displayed.

 

Congratulations to Christ-opher Johnathan James Nolan for completely expunging Burton's entire filmography from the minds of future film watchers and curb-stomping him right out of pop culture relevance 

Party pooper. You'd be in league with Max Shrek.

[ddddeeee]

I love this movie more than anything.

[Goffe]

I don't know... the Catwoman v Batman stuff is so obviously great, and I would have given all my money for a movie centered around those two, but then there's the irregular Penguin and the more traditional superhero stuff, which is most of the film's last third, leaving a sour aftertaste (not before the ending washes a bit of it away).

 

75/100

Edited August 25, 2016 by Goffe

[Goffe]

Also, I dug the dialogue and humor a lot.

Edited August 25, 2016 by Goffe

[dxmatrixdt]

does anyone have an explanation how Catwoman came to be Catwoman?  is there a symbolic interpretation?  I just rewatched this and it seems that Selina died and all the cats passed their souls into her body.  But the cats still b alive...

[ddddeeee]

Selina fell from the sixth floor and her fall was broken four times before she hit the ground - she never died. Some people like to think that she died and was resurrected by cats who gave her cat powers (which would be what, exactly?) because it suits their 'Batman Returns is rubbish' narrative.

 

From the beginning of the movie she's only ever seen in the background and is undermined by men at every opportunity, culminating in being pushed out of a window for being too smart. She accepts this abuse and even criticises herself when she says to Shrek, 'How can you be so mean to someone so meaningless?' Symbolically, this 'Selina' dies and the other side to Selina (the one who enjoyed shocking the unconscious goon) comes to the forefront. Selina realises that she can never get what she needs from this society so she, much like Batman, creates her own alterity. This is clear as her first act as Catwoman is saving a woman from being raped and she then is angry at the lady for being weak (just like the old Selina needed saving by Batman at the beginning). It's an awakening, not a resurrection. Cats symbolise rebirth, hence the scene in the streets.

 

It's also an homage to this scene from the comics.

 

Edited August 9, 2017 by ddddeeee

[lab276]

It's about at the same level as getting bitten by a radioactive spider and getting spider powers. For instance.

 

Although FWIW, she does die, she even says it at the end.

[ddddeeee]

Burton liked the ambiguity of the 'nine lives' motif but she didn't die. When Shrek, Batman and Penguin knock her off the buildings her fall is always cushioned.

 

Moreover, Burton explicitly says so in the commentary.

[dxmatrixdt]

3 hours ago, ddddeeee said:

Selina fell from the sixth floor and her fall was broken four times before she hit the ground - she never died. Some people like to think that she died and was resurrected by cats who gave her cat powers (which would be what, exactly?) because it suits their 'Batman Returns is rubbish' narrative.

 

From the beginning of the movie she's only ever seen in the background and is undermined by men at every opportunity, culminating in being pushed out of a window for being too smart. She accepts this abuse and even criticises herself when she says to Shrek, 'How can you be so mean to someone so meaningless?' Symbolically, this 'Selina' dies and the other side to Selina (the one who enjoyed shocking the unconscious goon) comes to the forefront. Selina realises that she can never get what she needs from this society so she, much like Batman, creates her own alterity. This is clear as her first act as Catwoman is saving a woman from being raped and she then is angry at the lady for being weak (just like the old Selina needed saving by Batman at the beginning). It's an awakening, not a resurrection. Cats symbolise rebirth, hence the scene in the streets.

 

It's also an homage to this scene from the comics.

 

what about her ability to beat people up and do acrobats

[ddddeeee]

54 minutes ago, Matrix4You said:

what about her ability to beat people up and do acrobats

She eats all of her greens.