Does One's Political Viewpoints Shape How he Interprets/Likes a Film?

[Kvikk Lunsj]

Avatar was like dances with wolves which was a transformational movie as that film really made people sympathize a lot more for what happened to the natives.

I never sympathized with the natives. I think Cameron did a horrible job with chacters in that movie. I love how Cameron had a white American had to lead the natives against the U.S. Military, that itself was bigoted. 

[dashrendar44]

I never sympathized with the natives. I think Cameron did a horrible job with chacters in that movie. I love how Cameron had a white American had to lead the natives against the U.S. Military, that itself was bigoted. 

 

 

That was not the US military. That was a private mercenaries army working for a private corporation protecting the mining business benefits of the latter like Blackwater Inc.

 

Detractors twist the narrative to suit their agenda.

Edited March 23, 2013 by dashrendar44

[Kvikk Lunsj]

That was not US military. That was a private mercenaries army working for a private corporation protecting the business mining benefits of the latter like Blackwater Inc.

 

Detractors twist the narrative to suit their agenda.

Thanks I have watched the movie in years but I wish the Natives themselves would done the fighting without the America helping them. 

[dashrendar44]

Thanks I have watched the movie in years but I wish the Natives themselves would done the fighting without the America helping them. 

 

Yeah me too but Cameron wanted to use that old trope to counter balance the white crippled guy going native to reconnect with nature by having him to become the hero and leader of the natives (and win the native princess blue ass) as a retribution.    That's my only beef with Avatar on a political topic that Natives are clueless and helpless people that can not save themselves without a white saviour but it didn't distract me from the whole experience.

Edited March 23, 2013 by dashrendar44

[fishstick]

I head some of my friends talking about an article talking about films that are Conservative minded or liberal minded and found it a bit silly.

 

 

However I then remember the whole mess over Zero Dark Thirty and how people either saw it as a film that was critical of the whole war on terror while others saw it as a victory lap celebrating the achievment in killing in Bin Laden.

 

My Questions are:

1. Are there are films where there is such a divergence of opinions based on your political viewpoints? 

 

2. Do people who think in a certain manner or have a certain way of looking towards life really like or prefer certain films or certain kinds of films.

 

I remember some Conservative talk show host saying TDK is a great celebration of Consvervative values... lol He was saying how it about not backing down and giving into terrorists and that all must be done too keep stability and order.

 

There`s a difference between movies that are about political theme (such as ZDT, Argo) and movies that take political swipes regardless of whether you notice them or not. So both are political and the latter are actually more dangerous because they camouflage political ideas in seemingly non-political content and work almost as ssubliminal messages. Political stance is there but it`s hard to see or target audience is too young to decern, but it ends up infuencing one`s opinion. Also, in many such cases, target audience isn`t even aware what kind of political propaganda they are fed with. Case in point Stephenie Meyers Mormon propaganda that litters her books (Twilight Saga and The Host). Many readers who aren`t familiar with Mormon religion didn`t know they were spoon fed Mormon values, but they actually were. Etc.

 

However, brouhahaha is always raised about openly politicla movies that are open with what they try to sell.

Edited March 23, 2013 by fishnets

[Lordmandeep]

Thanks I have watched the movie in years but I wish the Natives themselves would done the fighting without the America helping them.

 

 

I think if you look at it from a practical point of view...

 

You have a native culture and a technological advanced culture...

 

The native culture does not know the other culture well, but a person from the other culture comes to helps them.

This person would greatly help the natives as he from the other culture...

He knows about the way they think, they way they operate, how their technology, the strengths and weaknesses...

 

Pretty much having the natives alone beating the humans would have as silly as the ewoks in ROTJ then

[dashrendar44]

I think if you look at it from a practical point of view...

 

You have a native culture and a technological advanced culture...

 

The native culture does not know the other culture well, but a person from the other culture comes to helps them.

This person would greatly help the natives as he from the other culture...

He knows about the way they think, they way they operate, how their technology, the strengths and weaknesses...

 

Pretty much having the natives alone beating the humans would have as silly as the ewoks in ROTJ then

 

Yeah I concur to the point that Sully is the chaining key for Na'vi victory (he knows the enemy from the inside and got insight that help his fellow Na'vi taking advantages over human's army)  but what's irking some people (including me) is that basically he became their king, manipulating their beliefs by riding the fearful red dragon so they got to bow down and kneel before him right away in order to help them defeating the human mercenaries. (I got to admit I didn't entirely buy Sully's total transformation into a Na'vi, body and soul, fighting for the sake of the blue people. For me, he was kind of a douche taking advantage of both sides at one point but even after he chose Na'vi side, he was still kind of a white douche inside that still view himself as superior and not as equal. The fact he keeps speaking in english for example even when he is among the tribe)

 

That's why people finds it offensive. The white douchebag saviour that kind of override the native culture to dominate them in another way switching from traitor responsible of genocide to undisputed king in the blink of an eye after a rodeo.

 

Even if he is a part of the tribe, he can't be just one of them and stay at one level, he got to be the top alpha male dominant riding the fanciest red car, the big boss hitting the princess and the supreme commander brain heading the whole Na'vi army against human baddies all at the same time. Overkill.

Edited March 23, 2013 by dashrendar44

[fishstick]

Yeah I concur to the point that Sully is the chaining key for Na'vi victory (he knows the enemy from the inside and got insight that help his fellow Na'vi taking advantages over human's army)  but what's irking some people (including me) is that basically he became their king, manipulating their beliefs by riding the fearful red dragon so they got to bow down and kneel before him right away in order to help them defeating the human mercenaries. (I got to admit I didn't entirely buy Sully's total transformation into a Na'vi, body and soul, fighting for the sake of the blue people. For me, he was kind of a douche taking advantage of both sides at one point but even after he chose Na'vi side, he was still kind of a white douche inside that still view himself as superior and not as equal. The fact he keeps speaking in english for example even when he is among the tribe)

 

That's why people finds it offensive. The white douchebag saviour that kind of override the native culture to dominate them in another way switching from traitor responsible of genocide to undisputed king in the blink of an eye after a rodeo.

 

Even if he is a part of the tribe, he can't be just one of them and stay at one level, he got to be the top alpha male dominant riding the fanciest red car, the big boss hitting the princess and the supreme commander brain heading the whole Na'vi army against human baddies all at the same time. Overkill.

 

Jake didn`t manipulate anything - Eywa did. Eywa sent the sacred tree seeds to Neytiri as the sign that Jake must be spared. Everything that happens in the movie is guided by Eywa`s will. Even Neytiri`s mother who is tsahik (sp?) she who interprets the will of Eywa interprets it in a way that clearly set up Jake and Neytiri union. So it isn`t hard to imagine that Eywa also sent Toruk (sp?) to chase Jake and Neytiri so that he could hear the story of Toruk Makto (sp?) and eventually pull the feat in order to unite the tribes. Why did she do that? Because nobody esle could. Na`vi clearly didn`t know how to fight the humans and human scientists didn`t know how to fight period. So Jake as a rare warrior-in-Avatar-body was the perfect tool for Eywa achieving the balance of life on the planet.

 

Also, Jake shedding white skin for real blue at the end  is a great subversion of White Messiah who remains white and rules over non-whites. Jake may become the king but he is not white king ruling over blue people. He`s a blue king hence why it`s OK for him to be the King. They said that a man is born twice, when he`s born and when he`s accepted by The People. Well, he was born 3 times because third time his human (white) body literally died.

Edited March 23, 2013 by fishnets

[Ozymandias]

I love how Avatar haters are sub-communicating they're conservative pro-colonialism pollutant's advocates. "I hate this movie, what is that?! No Mr Cameron, Killing innocent savage people to steal their lands and ressources is good!Greed is good!Polluting is good!".

 

Wow, if a lightweight entertainment flick like Avatar triggered such anger in you like it deeply hurt your political mindset at the core, I advise you to never watch an Eisenstein's movie. Your butt gonna burst into flames. Atlas Shrugged is for you.

 

Yeah, everyone who thought Avatar was over the top and heavy handed is an imperialist teabagger.  Put some effort into it next time.

 

"You have a strong heart for this movie, but stupid, ignorant like a baby"

 

Rofl.

[dashrendar44]

Or you could have just say, he's not the first Na'vi warrior to have tamed the Toruk Makto. (He would have been the first, there you'd have some really offensive white saviour trope).

 

Back to the topic, that Eywa's prophecy is a convenient plot device. Out of all living creatures on Pandora, Eywa chooses a white human male plugging his conscience into an Avatar body of a Na'vi, (not a native) to be Pandora's savior and lead the natives to their victory...

 

Moreso Eywa predicts the future then, she chooses Jake Sully as the One before she'll know that human baddies would destroy Home Tree and nuke Tree of Souls so Sully got to tame Toruk Makto and be sacred King of natives to lead all the tribes. BUT wait to send extras to fight (dragons and big dinosaurs stomping) when they're being decimated in the first part of the battle because as Neytiri said she doesn't choose side to keep the balance of all things.

 

That white savior trope would be really subverted if Jake Sully was played by a Native American like Adam Beach, a black, an asian or any minorities.

 

(Like I said, I didn't really buy Sully's full native transformation, Worthington played it more like "It's so cool, I can hang out with those blue people savages even if I don't really care about their retarded traditions and backwards thinking. At least, I'm not stuck inside a wheelchair in my crippled body, I can fuck the hot blue Princess and those Na'vis worship me as a fuckin rock star". He was kind of an arrogant and selfish douche but he didn't sell me the "Learn to respect blue people's culture and humility to become a responsible member of the tribe" part of his character. When he came back with the Toruk Makto, that sounded like "Now, you clueless blue people, I ride your ultimate badass dragon that took me 30 seconds to tame so shut the fuck up pussies and listen to your motherfuckin' master!")

Edited March 24, 2013 by dashrendar44

[fishstick]

Balance of life. If humans won there would be no life.

 

It doesn`t change the fact that at the end of the movie Jake is not white. That`s the whole point. He was White Messiah cliche up until he became blue for real. It`s a great subversion.

[dashrendar44]

It was straight up lip service for hardcore environmentalists.

Rofl.

 

You talk like someone whose lily arse has been raped by an environmentalist with a big cucumber. Yeah, environmentalists and tree-huggers are the scum of the earth. Nature is so disgusting!

Edited March 24, 2013 by dashrendar44

[Lordmandeep]

Dash your the guy who says a film is being unrealistic and then goes on a big rant how things should be in nonexistent ideal world??

 

What is the point?

[vc2002]

 

Yeah me too but Cameron wanted to use that old trope to counter balance the white crippled guy going native to reconnect with nature by having him to become the hero and leader of the natives (and win the native princess blue ass) as a retribution.    That's my only beef with Avatar on a political topic that Natives are clueless and helpless people that can not save themselves without a white saviour but it didn't distract me from the whole experience.

 

 

I'm sure if you look at Jake's role from a political view of point, then you are forcing yourself to miss the core of the film.

 

And for your consideration, here's Cameron own answer to your question.  Starting @ 21:45

 

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xcaoa2_charlie-rose-james-cameron-director_news#.UU59FDdkPho

[Plain Old Tele]

Moderation:

 

Settle down, everybody.

[vc2002]

Moderation:

 

Settle down, everybody.

 

aka "QUIET bitches, or I'll ban your asses!"

[Lordmandeep]

I just think there is a bit of over analyzing going on...

 

 

To suggest having the white guy leading the aliens to victory is ridiculous or racist.

 

Having the natives magically beat the humans with no assistance would have made even less sense.

[Walt Disney]

There are definitely movies that I have not enjoyed because of my political leanings. Usually, if there are little jabs that are dropped in like in The Ides of March, I won't mind and will still enjoy the movie, as long as it's good which Ides was. But when the movie hammers home a message that I disagree with, then it can turn me off to the movie. Runaway Jury is an example of a movie that I liked less because of the political message.

 

I also don't like movies that are historically inaccurate. Hollywood really does history a disservice a lot of the time.

 

I do know that my brother loved The Hunger Games because he loved the political message. I watched the movie as a movie and didn't enjoy it. He watched the movie and loved the political message so much that he ended up loving the movie.

[Ladybug]

Political affiliation definitely affects how much someone likes a film. Personally, I try my best to look past political messages in films and try to enjoy them for what they are. Unfortunately, my right-wing, "Tea Party patriot" father refuses to watch, refuses to talk about, and refuses to like the new Lincoln film, because of Obama's admiration for him. I'm sure there are many other people out there just like my dad.

[Lordmandeep]

lol I think people forget Lincoln was a Republican ^^^