baumer Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 I think the reason people attack you for your opinions a lot is because you present them as absolute fact. Never an 'IMO' stuck in there for good measure. Total bullshit. I almost always say its my opinion. Pain & Gain made less than 50m despite two of the biggest stars in Hollywood right now anchoring it. The Bay name can maybe be a draw, but outside of TF it's never been a guaranteed brand. It's always come down to the movies.Then you say del Toro works for fanboys exclusively when he's produced plenty of hits (including Mama this year) over the last decade. He produces horrible movies too. Don't Be Afraid of the Dark and Splice are two of the worst films in ages....IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishstick Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 (edited) PR tried new things? Giant robots: Transformers Giant monsters: Godzilla Rag tag bunch of rebel humans ban together to fight aliens: ID4 Speech given by Elba: ID4 Young hot shot pilot saves the day: Star Wars, Top Gun And this film is basically a rip off of old anime: Brother dies heroically at the beginning of the story---CHECK Has to be talked back into the war----CHECK Meets a cute Japanese girl----CHECK Girl has unrequited feelings for him----CHECK Dark skinned commander who takes no guff----CHECK Crazy/goofy scientist characters----CHECK Aliens are giants so we need giant manned robots to fight them----CHECK So, it didn't try something new in the slightest. Nice try. Yep, as new as Film-making 101 aka Check Box Film-making is. Edited July 16, 2013 by fishnets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baumer Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 Pain & Gain made less than 50m despite two of the biggest stars in Hollywood right now anchoring it. The Bay name can maybe be a draw, but outside of TF it's never been a guaranteed brand. It's always come down to the movies.Then you say del Toro works for fanboys exclusively when he's produced plenty of hits (including Mama this year) over the last decade. His name has never been a draw outside of Transformers? So I guess Armageddon, Pearl Harbor and The Rock all had nothing to do with him? Ok. Well, I won't rub salt into your wounds too much today. I'll get out of here so all of you GDT minions can whisk away into a private room and into a cloud of smoke congratulating each other on how successful GDT is with the critics. Maybe the next time he wants 200 million dollars for a film, he can go to Rex Reed and Ebert's widow. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gopher Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 Are we really mad at PR for using anime tropes? Who got mad at MU for ripping off Revenge of the Nerds? Who got mad at Man of Steel for taking every superhero origin movie trope? Nothing is original anymore, the only thing that matters is how these movies use these story contructs, and that's going to vary depending on who you ask. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baumer Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 Are we really mad at PR for using anime tropes? Who got mad at MU for ripping off Revenge of the Nerds? Who got mad at Man of Steel for taking every superhero origin movie trope?Nothing is original anymore, the only thing that matters is how these movies use these story contructs, and that's going to vary depending on who you ask. I'm not mad, no one is. It's just when the poster claims that PR was a film that tried new things...I mean...really? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gopher Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 His name has never been a draw outside of Transformers?So I guess Armageddon, Pearl Harbor and The Rock all had nothing to do with him?Ok. Well, I won't rub salt into your wounds too much today. I'll get out of here so all of you GDT minions can whisk away into a private room and into a cloud of smoke congratulating each other on how successful GDT is with the critics. Maybe the next time he wants 200 million dollars for a film, he can go to Rex Reed and Ebert's widow.CONSISTENT draw outside of TF. It comes down to the movies. It always comes down to the movies. Bay has made more crowdpleasers than GDT. You have the numbers to show that. Doesn't make GDT (a name that every horror movie in the last few years has attached to its marketing) or the 95% of Hollywood directors less successful than Bay unsuccessful. Geez, you're being a dick today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CenterMeOnSam Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 Yes but GdT's annoying fandom won't rest until GdT flick makes more money than the highets grossing Bay flick. Cause, for all the chest-thumping that boxoffice =/= quality they want huge boxoffice to prove that their fave's better than _______ whose movies make more. hence why we hear a completely idiotic boistering that "PR is thinking man's TF" whereas there's not a single smart thing in PR nor the movie thinks it's smart. Where does thinking man's shit comes from is one of world's 8 biggest mysteries that won't be resolved anytime soon. Well, I agree with you that Pacific Rim is not a "thinking mans" movie. In fact, its del Toro's most "Bay-like" movie yet. But, that's fine. The dude wanted to do a movie that was fun and light. Doesn't erase the fact that this is still the director of Cronos, Pan's Labyrnth, and The Devil's Backbone. The dude's a serious talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dementeleus Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 PR is riddled with the sorts of little details that Bay just doesn't bother with, and its emotional moments trump anything in the TF trilogy (in fact, the only stuff that comes close in the Bay oeuvre is ARMAGEDDON).IMO. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gopher Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 Total bullshit. I almost always say its my opinion. Bay is one of the best film makers in the world. GDT is a decent film maker who occasionally reaches greatness and occasionally sinks to the gutter.Mhm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoolioD1 Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 He shouldn't have to state that it's his opinion. I mean it's fairly obvious. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatebox Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 There is something uniquely arresting about Bay's visuals. I do wish the characters in his movies weren't always such dicks, though. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baumer Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 CONSISTENT draw outside of TF. It comes down to the movies. It always comes down to the movies.Bay has made more crowdpleasers than GDT. You have the numbers to show that. Doesn't make GDT (a name that every horror movie in the last few years has attached to its marketing) or the 95% of Hollywood directors less successful than Bay unsuccessful.Geez, you're being a dick today. I'm only being a dick because you are finding it hard to prove me wrong. That's frustrating. But it's okay. We all have our bad days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baumer Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 Mhm. What do you want me to do Gopher, put those three little letters every time I make a statement? Then tell everyone else to do the same, including you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ezen Baklattan Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 (edited) As long as studios keep letting movies like Pacific Rim, Scott Pilgrim, and so on get made, I guess that it's not really a big deal if studios have to make films that really just 'pay the bills' and not much else. And fortunately, that's how a lot of studios function. For every Happy Madison film we get, we also get a Moneyball/TGWTDT/Zero Dark Thirty. Edited July 16, 2013 by Spaghetti 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gopher Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 As long as studios still find the Oscars profitable, talented directors and writers will be given money with the purpose of creating something good first and will sell second. That's why most of each year's good movies come out in December. (Also, baumer, I became pedantic by the end of our argument there. My apologies.) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishstick Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 Well, I agree with you that Pacific Rim is not a "thinking mans" movie. In fact, its del Toro's most "Bay-like" movie yet. But, that's fine. The dude wanted to do a movie that was fun and light. Doesn't erase the fact that this is still the director of Cronos, Pan's Labyrnth, and The Devil's Backbone. The dude's a serious talent. he is a serious talent but his lesser movies are those that are more studio oriented. PR concept didn't leave people cold because it's offbeat but because it's been done to death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#ED Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 This Bay vs Del Toro argument. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fancyarcher Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 (edited) I'm not mad, no one is. It's just when the poster claims that PR was a film that tried new things...I mean...really? I didn't claim it tried new things. I was talking about filmmaking in general. Besides Bay only makes Transformers movies because he wants money. Del Toro made Pacific Rim because he wanted to make a fun movie. That's a big difference IMO. Edited July 16, 2013 by Boxofficefanatic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dementeleus Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 The "it made tons of money therefore the most people liked it therefore it's best" argument is really weak. It's like saying McDonald's is the best burger ever because they sell the most. Well, no. If Transformers hadn't been based on a popular series of toys that a generation of kids knew and loved, would the movie have been as big a hit? No. If Harry Potter had never been a series of books but was simply a new movie by Chris Columbus, would it have been as big a hit? No. You can use whatever popular pre-existing property you want: LOTR, Twilight, Marvel movies, DC movies, whatever. The same holds true. That doesn't mean I think PR is some perfect filet mignon, it's just In & Out to Bay's Mickey D's. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leyla Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 (edited) TF is awful havent seen PR yet but 100% sure it cant be worse than that & Im not against Bay in general Edited July 16, 2013 by Leyla Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
