Avatar: The Way of Water | 16 DEC 2022 | Don't worry guys, critics like it

[The Futurist]

People never cease to amaze me. Actually, fanboys-fangirls never cease to amaze me. Look, guys, I don't know if AVATAR 2 will decrease or increase, but you need stop thinking that mainstream audiences looking for escapism and spectacle care about "story, characters, and depth" in the pseudo-intellectual, pseudo-filmmaking student way that fanboys love to spout off about. I keep seeing this pervading belief among internet denizens that posits that mainstream audiences hated AVATAR because of lack of depth and cardboard characters. Nothing farther from the truth.

Avatar had amazing word of mouth that powered it to a 10 multiplier. Everyone I know, men and women, from 20 to 60, who are just regular, run of the mill moviegoers who don't know their Darth Vaders from their Dark Knights, loved the story and the characters.

Yes.

Believe it or not, they were moved by the plight of Jake and Neytiri, and they loved the messages explored in the film beyond the "shiny colors."

I know this is hard to believe because internet voices are really loud, and they love repeating the same spiel over and over again, foolishly thinking that their opinions are a reflection of audiences at large.

But they are not.

Otherwise, Transformers 2 would have flopped, since conventional wisdom (on the net) was that everyone hated the first. Transformers 3 would have also flopped, since the internet brigade was even louder about how much audiences supposedly hated part 2. And if the internet fanboys really reflected what audiences at large thought, Serenity and Cabin in the Woods would be billion dollar grossers, right?

Again, mainstream audiences are not in for the alleged complexly delienated characters and smart, realistic dialogue. They are in for broad strokes, familiar narrative conventions, compelling storytelling, and emotional resonance, which, whether you want to admit or not, Cameron delivers in spades. The special effects, action pyrotecnics, and grand spectacle are just icing on the cake.

Say that Cameron is a hack, a rip-off artist, a copycat, and a douchebag until you are blue in the face.

But stop pretending that people/mainstream audiences hated Avatar (and Titanic).

They did not.

[Cochofles]

OK, lets take an objective look at Avatar characters. You`ll see that they are no flatter than Terminator ones. terminator has an evil robot,s that`s flat as it gets. Then there was a stoic hero. He wants to protect the girl, no deep issues, layers,etc. Then there`s damsel in distress who falls in love with the hero. Now, this one was flat, what you get is what you see until the last scene in the movie that subverts the whole damsel-in-distress/last survivor-of-a-slasher-horror subgenre. We never see the aftermath of survival except girl being in state of shock, police putting a blanket over her and that`s the end. She`ll never feel safe. Or some shit where everything looks fine like nothing happens and then a nasty twist. But this was actually a character development in a scene that lasted for under 5 minutes. You don`t fuck with this Sarah. Mother of the future is born.

Now, in T2, he really gave her layers. The post traumatic stress syndrome that made her lose touch with her humanity and become a lousy mom. That sort of thing. So development of characters in Avatar sequels is a logical progression. And he has good track record with it. Sarah and Ripley in Aliens also evolved. I trust him with sequels. I`m not sure about making 3 movies back to back but I suppose he has a vision where he wants to take the story and characters so whatever.

Ýep.

I think that Cameron will not rest until he finds a way to make Avatar 2 something that is familiar yet different (from the first film) enough to stand on its own feet. He did it with ALIENS and he did it with T2. Who knows, maybe the third time's the charm, and his third sequel will be his most spectacular flop and failure, but as it stands now, his record with sequels is exemplary, which gives me hope that Avatar 2 will work.

[fishstick]

For Avatar 2 to be made, it needs to satisfy the toughest customer - Cameron.

[teardropmina]

Avatar sequels won't do as good as Avatar did BO wise, US dom or WW; not because of any sort of backlash (let alone massive), but because Avatar is a world wide phenomena, but sequels will only be big movies. this is not a normal original-sequel situation.

[dashrendar44]

Otherwise, Transformers 2 would have flopped, since conventional wisdom (on the net) was that everyone hated the first. Transformers 3 would have also flopped, since the internet brigade was even louder about how much audiences supposedly hated part 2. And if the internet fanboys really reflected what audiences at large thought, Serenity and Cabin in the Woods would be billion dollar grossers, right?

Don't forget Scott Pilgrim, Watchmen and Sucker Punch.

[fishstick]

Avatar sequels won't do as good as Avatar did BO wise, US dom or WW; not because of any sort of backlash (let alone massive), but because Avatar is a world wide phenomena, but sequels will only be big movies. this is not a normal original-sequel situation.

That makes sense because it`s really hard to top almost $3 billion dollars especially when sequelitis is added into calculation.

Don't forget Scott Pilgrim, Watchmen and Sucker Punch.

Agree about SP and TW but I don`t think that geeks were supporting SPunch all that much. They had the beef with Snyder by that time. Edited December 19, 2012 by fishnets

[dashrendar44]

Avatar sequels won't do as good as Avatar did BO wise, US dom or WW; not because of any sort of backlash (let alone massive), but because Avatar is a world wide phenomena, but sequels will only be big movies. this is not a normal original-sequel situation.

Cameron is in a whole galaxy of his own. Common blockbusters tracking and run does not apply anymore regarding his movies.That's what make him fascinating. He's the only one who cracked the code of the ultimate supermassive success. He made the lightning striking twice, something deemed impossible in one's career. So, regarding Cameron, I would be cautious with premature judgements... Edited December 20, 2012 by dashrendar44

[4815162342]

And if the internet fanboys really reflected what audiences at large thought, Cabin in the Woods would be billion dollar grossers, right?

lol, still trying to sneak in an argument about CitW any way you can. Face it, you gambled that it would tank and it didn't.

[Neo]

Avatar sequels won't do as good as Avatar did BO wise, US dom or WW; not because of any sort of backlash (let alone massive), but because Avatar is a world wide phenomena, but sequels will only be big movies. this is not a normal original-sequel situation.

This does not apply to Cameron, after having 2 record breaking movies and the biggest sequel jump (%) ever movies.

[teardropmina]

Cameron is in a whole galaxy on his own. Common blockbusters tracking and run does not apply anymore regarding his movies.That's what make him fascinating. He's the only one who cracked the code of the ultimate supermassive success. He made the lightning striking twice, something deemed impossible in one's career. So, regarding Cameron, I would be cautious with premature judgements...

he's in another galaxy with Titanic and Avatar, not his other works. I'd say that if he's related to another Titanic-Avatar level phenomena, it needs to be an original film, not sequels. or a sequel to a modest original, which isn't exactly possible for today's Cameron.

[teardropmina]

This does not apply to Cameron, after having 2 record breaking movies and the biggest sequel jump (%) ever movies.

you're talking about Aliens and Terminator 2? they are not world wide phenomenon -- Titanic and Avatar. you don't make a jump from phenomena. Edited December 20, 2012 by teardropmina

[Neo]

he's in another galaxy with Titanic, Terminator 2 and Avatar, not his other works. I'd say that if he's related to another Titanic-Avatar level phenomena, it needs to be an original film, not sequels. or a sequel to a modest original, which isn't exactly possible for today's Cameron.

[fishstick]

This does not apply to Cameron, after having 2 record breaking movies and the biggest sequel jump (%) ever movies.

But his record-breaking movies were originals, not a sequel to original. Avatar wasn`t the sequel to Titanic.As for T2 jump, how does it stack up to Terminator adjusted? Plus, it`s one thing to jump from a movie that didn`t even hit $100 mio. Jumping from an almost $3 billion grosser is, well, Cameronesque task. Edited December 20, 2012 by fishnets

[Neo]

you're talking about Aliens and Terminator 2? they are not world wide phenomena -- Titanic and Avatar. you don't make a jump from phenomena. ...

... Unless you are Cameron.

[dashrendar44]

you're talking about Aliens and Terminator 2? they are not world wide phenomena -- Titanic and Avatar. you don't make a jump from phenomena.

There's a first time for everything...

[fishstick]

There's a first time for everything...

Abyss flopped but it`s holding remarkably well and it`s now a sci fi classic or almost.

[teardropmina]

Terminator 2 is a successful blockbuster, but not a phenomenal event at the level of Titanic and Avatar.

[Neo]

There's a first time for everything...

This. If Cameron wants it, he can make another Avatar. Box office wise increasing DOM will be a challenge, but WW is definitely there. Can't wait for BA so he does it again and maybe then the haters will take a back seat.

[Neo]

Terminator 2 is a successful blockbuster, but not a phenomenal event at the level of Titanic and Avatar.

??? 484% increase is not a phenomena?

[dashrendar44]

It was phenomenal back in 1991, I can assure you teardropmina.

Edited December 20, 2012 by dashrendar44