Diversity in top films misrepresents U.S. population

[AniNate]

As far as the culture issue goes, Hollywood is trying to address this even if they haven't solved the problem this exact moment. The success of Instructions Not Included last year certainly hinted at a lucrative new market, I'm sure, and there is a film coming out this year celebrating the Mexican Day of the Dead.

Edited August 6, 2014 by tribefan695

[Jessie]

Million Dollar Arm anyone?

[mattmav45]

It's amazing how often the media in this country now tries to manufacture racism and prejudice to make a story relevant in some way.

 

Diversity in film based on population........excuse me while I stop giving a flying fuck right now.

[AniNate]

It also seems there's a very thin line between cultural diversity and stereotyping. When movies and tv shows try to show multiple cultures, there always seem to be complaining about "caricatures".

[Cmasterclay]

Saying that "I just want good films, who cares about diversity" is pretty much tantamount to "films are better with the white actors we have in those roles" which is the internet's way of saying that people who aren't white are inherently not talented or of equal skill in the field of acting to white people. It's a bullshit fucking mentality. Maybe people care about diversity because we want to see people of different creeds and colors succeed. Maybe it's because this country still has a rampant undercurrent of racism that rears its head everywhere (this very topic, for example!) and increasing diversity in a popular form of media is a major way to combat it. The white conservative mentality of investing in the continued success of the white race over investing in helping others have a chance to reach an equal or even close to equal level is blatant political racism, but of course, like in this topic, people will just mask it by saying "OMG u r just whining and bein so PC n annoying!" And I say that as someone who is so white I've been hospitalized for sunburn. 

[Dark Jedi Master 007]

I feel that there are plenty of films out there that do celebrate and/or the cultures of minorities. But they just tend to be this smaller, independent fare that we rarely see because they don't come to the big cinema chains. For example, only last week I watched this movie called Brick Lane which is about this 17 year old Bangladesh girl who has an arranged marriage with a guy twice her age and then moves to Britain.  It's a great film that explores a totally different culture to one that I am use to. I really enjoyed it. Shame it probably would had been seen by about 23 Americans.

 

Because in my eyes the real question is 'why don't we have more movies that celebrate the cultures of minorities' but 'why don't we have more big budget movies that celebrate the cultures of minorities'. And the answer to that question, simply is Money. It's the safe option setting your characters in a white world and the safe option is what matters to these people when there is hundreds of millions of dollars at stake. Now why is it the safe option? That is the question that actually matters, not the 'oh no, Roby Downy Jr won the Iron Man role over a random Hispanic actor! Why are there so many white people up on screen?', question.

IDK how good independent films are at celebrating diverse cultures, but I do agree with you that independent films are much better than big budget studio films are at celebrating other cultures. I also agree with you that big budget films probably lag behind independent pictures in this category because they are worried about money. So, I guess that brings up the next question: What is the solution to that problem? Should big studios get over their fears, should consumers demand films that celebrate diverse cultures more, or should we consumers spend our money on smaller, independent films about other cultures, therefore proving that there is a market for that stuff?

[Ozymandias]

It's amazing how often the media in this country now tries to manufacture racism and prejudice to make a story relevant in some way.

 

Diversity in film based on population........excuse me while I stop giving a flying fuck right now.

 

Never underestimate the SJW's, some of them literally can't breath without something to over.  I mean shit, its not like the Tea Party runs Hollywood.

[Noctis]

Interesting that the ones who oppose the diversity in this thread are all white straight males. Cute.

[Jandrew]

And the fight against a color-blind society continues.   Every facet of everything must be broken down in racial terms.   ...Be it ticket buyers or actors.

 

Oh look another white male.

There are basically three certainties in life. Death, Taxes and Minorities having a teary over things that are really not that important.

Oh look another white make. Not surprised to see you though after your blackface comments.

Yet again boring people with no lives thinking of something else to moan about. All the problems in the world and this is considered one of them lol, please...

Oh look another white male. Hey werent you in the blackface thread as well? Sup bud! I "have no life" so yeah, but how are you?

Sorry Jandrew but im going to have to disagree. Im sure the filmmakers didn't just make Falcon and War Machine black just to keep black people happy. Falcon was a great character, easily the coolest character of Winter Soldier and you're making out that he was just some lame side character put in to keep black people quiet lol. Its funny that when I watch these movies I don't even think about skin colour, I just see it has Steve Rogers meets some cool, funny guy who turns into a great sidekick. You've somehow managed to spin it as an insult to your race lol.

You missed the entire point, lol. And took this paragraph out of context, lol. How could they make the, black...ifnthey were already black in the comics? Go back and read my post. All of it. Hey Spots you too!

It's amazing how often the media in this country now tries to manufacture racism and prejudice to make a story relevant in some way.

 

Diversity in film based on population........excuse me while I stop giving a flying fuck right now.

White male perhaps?

Never underestimate the SJW's, some of them literally can't breath without something to over.  I mean shit, its not like the Tea Party runs Hollywood.

Whats up my duud! How the white life?

[Jessie]

Sorry J, didn't mean to be rude.

[Jandrew]

Sorry J, didn't mean to be rude.

I see where youre coming from, thats why I want you to be reread my post, so you can see where I am. I even said I dont want things changed for the hell of it like a black Indiana Jones, but I did say why I dont want people being thrown in just for marketing stunts, like Nicki Minaj in TOW. I want diverse characters that serve a purpose. Go reread and I think we'll see some common ground.

[maxenricfan]

Non-white gay guy here. I oppose diversity for diversity's sake. Quite often the problem with putting together a diverse cast is the eggshells that the creators have to navigate through. Put a flaming gay character and hear the howls of how media only represents gay characters as femmes. Put him as a serial killer and have GLAAD protest the demonization of gay men. Make him a regular dude  then he doesn't stand out at all and is not any different than having him as a straight guy. Make a movie about a gay superhero and very few will come to watch the movie and suffer huge losses. If I don't how to present a gay guy accurately on screen that can sell tickets I am better off not putting him on screen.

 

The first rule of writing is that you write about things and situations that you know.

If I know about white suburban culture how will I write about a kid from the inner cities.

For example if Michael Bay put his name in front of a Tyler Perry movie he would be hounded in BET or The Root for perpetuating black stereotypes while Tyler Perry can write those characters because he's black.

The problem with casting minority characters while you are white is how to make them realistic without them being stereotypical. If you can't get both right you are better off with token casting as a sidekick or not casting them at all. It's not worth the extra baggage.

Edited August 6, 2014 by maxenricfan

[Water Bottle]

It was actually Martin Luther King's idea.   I consider it a great idea too. Emphasizing race at all times cannot possibly have a positive effect on race relations.    At what point do we plan to become one race? To put it in a different way for illustration, imagine white people celebrating their color and constantly referring to themselves by their race.    The KKK does that.

"“Whenever this issue of compensatory or preferential treatment for the Negro is raised, some of our friends recoil in horror. The Negro should be granted equality, they agree, but he should ask for nothing more. On the surface, this appears reasonable, but it is not realistic. For it is obvious that if a man enters the starting line of a race three hundred years after another man, the first would have to perform some incredible feat in order to catch up.”"-MLK""Many have come seeing 'no difference in color,' they have become 'color blind.' But at this time and in this land, color is a factor and we should not overlook or deny this. The black organizations do not need this kind of idealism, which borders on paternalism.""-MLKSeems to me like MLK agrees with me.

I really don't see why race (or gender or sexuality for that matter) would have any impact on how I personally treat someone. Indeed I am fundamentally against celebrating 'color'. Why does it matter if Morgan Freeman is black or Johnny Depp is white? What does their skin-tone have anything to do with anything? With that said, I do get the impression that what WB was saying was that when white people say 'color blind' it's code for 'whitewashing' (pun intended) someones cultural heritage. Your culture does not matter, you are all white in our eyes. But that I feel is missing the point. Being blind to color is not synonymous with being blind to culture. Race is absolutely irrelevant to someone's character, but their ideas, their language, their music, how they think about the world,.....their culture. That is what is important in my eyes. Not someones skin pigmentation.

Stating it doesn't matter if you're black or white is in fact stating to a black person that a huge component of who they are doesn't matter. Like it or not, minority groups do use things like skin tone, ethnicity, sexual orientation to define part of who they are. Denying them this ability by being color blind is not only being insensitive to who they are but it also suggests a lack of awareness of the challenges that group faces as a consequence of being a part of that minority. Respecting someone for being black is a lot better than pretending someone isn't black. It's just avoiding the issue, 

Has someone actually seen a Mexican telenovela ? It is on average whiter than a Mitt Romney rally. If Hispanics actually wanted diverse representation it would first reflect in Univision or Telemundo.

What an ignorant comment. Many Hispanic people are also white. To us, it's less about skin tone and more about the blood inside us. I'm a white Hispanic for instance.

[maxenricfan]

 What an ignorant comment. Many Hispanic people are also white. To us, it's less about skin tone and more about the blood inside us. I'm a white Hispanic for instance.

I know that. However in this thread  people are discounting Cameron Diaz or Charlie Sheen as authentic Hispanic actors because they are white Hispanics.

Edited August 6, 2014 by maxenricfan

[Harpospoke]

I still see no attempt to find out the racial makeup of the acting profession.   I've seen several high school drama classes in recent years...and minority students are not that interested in it.   My local high school features a much higher than average percentage of non-white students.   ...Yet the drama class is almost all white kids.   Is this a nationwide trend?   Are white kids more interested in drama than minority kids?   It's the first question you ask here if you are being logical.

 

It's the first thing you talk about with other things.   For instance, black students flock to football and basketball teams.   That's not surprising...it's also not surprising that pro football and basketball is dominated by black players....far exceeding the percentage of black people in the general population.   It...makes sense.   We don't write articles claiming that the NFL and NBA discriminate against white people.

 

Now...why is this kind of logic is not being applied to this topic?   Why is the crucial first step in the numbers being skipped?   It suggests either poor reasoning or an agenda.
 

Sorry Jandrew but im going to have to disagree. Im sure the filmmakers didn't just make Falcon and War Machine black just to keep black people happy. Falcon was a great character, easily the coolest character of Winter Soldier and you're making out that he was just some lame side character put in to keep black people quiet lol. Its funny that when I watch these movies I don't even think about skin colour, I just see it has Steve Rogers meets some cool, funny guy who turns into a great sidekick. You've somehow managed to spin it as an insult to your race lol.

Exactly.   It was so nice to watch the movie without thinking about the race or sex of the characters.  It didn't matter to me.   But of course politics and agenda had to insert itself at a certain point to ruin the positive vibe.
 

Race is absolutely irrelevant to someone's character, but their ideas, their language, their music, how they think about the world,.....their culture. That is what is important in my eyes. Not someones skin pigmentation.

That's the ultimate goal in my mind.   If we can ever stop with the political agendas which foster racist thinking, maybe we'll get there.
 

Because in my eyes the real question is 'why don't we have more movies that celebrate the cultures of minorities' but 'why don't we have more big budget movies that celebrate the cultures of minorities'.

I would like to know exactly what is meant by that.   "Culture" is a tricky word.   All people of any given race do not share the same "culture".   A black person in Britain does not have the same cultural background as a black person in Tennessee.    A Latin person from Cuba does not share the same culture as a Latin person from Mexico or Brazil.   And obviously if you travel Europe you'll find out that being white can mean your culture is dramatically different from another white person.  A white person from Germany does not remotely share the same culture as a white person from Spain, France, or Italy.
 
Then I wonder what is meant be "celebrate".   I've seen a lot of movies set in various cultures and there usually very little attempt to "celebrate" it.   ...It's just a part of the story.   Forcing a "celebration" into a movie is probably going to have a negative effect on the narrative and possibly make it have less mass appeal.
 
I'm becoming more and more convinced that "culture" is a bad thing for race relations.   Similar to how I'm coming to view the Olympics and World Cup....it actually seems to separate the races and promote a feeling of "us vs them", antagonism, and outright hatred.
 
If we are talking about remembering cultural history that's one thing....but huddling together in our little separate groups doesn't seem to be a positive thing to me.   Should we all wear signs that announce what our race is?  Should our race precede every description of us?   Like when Halle Berry won her Oscar....she wasn't an "actress"...she was a "black actress".   I'll bet she believes she agrees with Martin Luther King's philosophy.
 

Saying that "I just want good films, who cares about diversity" is pretty much tantamount to "films are better with the white actors we have in those roles" which is the internet's way of saying that people who aren't white are inherently not talented or of equal skill in the field of acting to white people. It's a bullshit fucking mentality.

 One of the most educational things about the internet for me is how often people resort to logical fallacies in discussions on just about any topic.   Ad Hominem and Straw Man are the two most popular from what I've seen.
 
Here we have a classic Straw Man.   First the poster tells us what someone said...then changes it to something else and attacks the original poster based on that new version of what they said.
 
A nice way to avoid a logical discussion of course, but pretty transparent. 

Seriously? Let me guess...you are a white heterosexual cysgendered male, I bet.

Interesting that the ones who oppose the diversity in this thread are all white straight males. Cute.

Oh look another white male.

Obviously the go-to tactic is "shut up, you are a white male".   That's productive.
 
That cute bumper sticker phrase sounds "progressive" and "enlightened", but it's really just a transparent attempt to silence opposing viewpoints.
 
Also indicative of a mindset where every person is judged almost entirely by the color of their skin.   A broad brush where every person of any particular race is exactly alike in their thinking.

[Jessie]

The Seth Rogan gang is just one gay guy away from being a fully diverse crowd. Probably why this site lives This is the End, everyone in it is hilarious.

Edited August 6, 2014 by jessie

[Harpospoke]

"“Whenever this issue of compensatory or preferential treatment for the Negro is raised, some of our friends recoil in horror. The Negro should be granted equality, they agree, but he should ask for nothing more. On the surface, this appears reasonable, but it is not realistic. For it is obvious that if a man enters the starting line of a race three hundred years after another man, the first would have to perform some incredible feat in order to catch up.”"-MLK""Many have come seeing 'no difference in color,' they have become 'color blind.' But at this time and in this land, color is a factor and we should not overlook or deny this. The black organizations do not need this kind of idealism, which borders on paternalism.""-MLKSeems to me like MLK agrees with me.

I prefer these words:

 

"I have a dream that one day on the red hills of Georgia, the sons of former slaves and the sons of former slave owners will be able to sit down together at the table of brotherhood.

I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character."

 

And there is a good reason why he was, is, and will be remembered for those words more than anything else he said.   It's a logical idea.

[Water Bottle]

I still see no attempt to find out the racial makeup of the acting profession.   I've seen several high school drama classes in recent years...and minority students are not that interested in it.   My local high school features a much higher than average percentage of non-white students.   ...Yet the drama class is almost all white kids.   Is this a nationwide trend?   Are white kids more interested in drama than minority kids?   It's the first question you ask here if you are being logical.

 

It's the first thing you talk about with other things.   For instance, black students flock to football and basketball teams.   That's not surprising...it's also not surprising that pro football and basketball is dominated by black players....far exceeding the percentage of black people in the general population.   It...makes sense.   We don't write articles claiming that the NFL and NBA discriminate against white people.

 

Now...why is this kind of logic is not being applied to this topic?   Why is the crucial first step in the numbers being skipped?   It suggests either poor reasoning or an agenda. 

Exactly.   It was so nice to watch the movie without thinking about the race or sex of the characters.  It didn't matter to me.   But of course politics and agenda had to insert itself at a certain point to ruin the positive vibe. 

That's the ultimate goal in my mind.   If we can ever stop with the political agendas which foster racist thinking, maybe we'll get there. 

I would like to know exactly what is meant by that.   "Culture" is a tricky word.   All people of any given race do not share the same "culture".   A black person in Britain does not have the same cultural background as a black person in Tennessee.    A Latin person from Cuba does not share the same culture as a Latin person from Mexico or Brazil.   And obviously if you travel Europe you'll find out that being white can mean your culture is dramatically different from another white person.  A white person from Germany does not remotely share the same culture as a white person from Spain, France, or Italy. Then I wonder what is meant be "celebrate".   I've seen a lot of movies set in various cultures and there usually very little attempt to "celebrate" it.   ...It's just a part of the story.   Forcing a "celebration" into a movie is probably going to have a negative effect on the narrative and possibly make it have less mass appeal. I'm becoming more and more convinced that "culture" is a bad thing for race relations.   Similar to how I'm coming to view the Olympics and World Cup....it actually seems to separate the races and promote a feeling of "us vs them", antagonism, and outright hatred. If we are talking about remembering cultural history that's one thing....but huddling together in our little separate groups doesn't seem to be a positive thing to me.   Should we all wear signs that announce what our race is?  Should our race precede every description of us?   Like when Halle Berry won her Oscar....she wasn't an "actress"...she was a "black actress".   I'll bet she believes she agrees with Martin Luther King's philosophy. 

 One of the most educational things about the internet for me is how often people resort to logical fallacies in discussions on just about any topic.   Ad Hominem and Straw Man are the two most popular from what I've seen. Here we have a classic Straw Man.   First the poster tells us what someone said...then changes it to something else and attacks the original poster based on that new version of what they said. A nice way to avoid a logical discussion of course, but pretty transparent. 

Obviously the go-to tactic is "shut up, you are a white male".   That's productive. That cute bumper sticker phrase sounds "progressive" and "enlightened", but it's really just a transparent attempt to silence opposing viewpoints. Also indicative of a mindset where every person is judged almost entirely by the color of their skin.   A broad brush where every person of any particular race is exactly alike in their thinking.

 

For the first couple of paragraphs: maybe the lack of minority people in theater has something to do with the lack of roles in Hollywood? I mean then you're getting into a chicken and the egg situation but ultimately, you can't ignore the diversity argument with the whole "how many black actors are there anyways?" And yes there is an agenda. So what? We all have agendas in this thread. Even you do.

 

If you think "culture" has become a dirty word that harms race relations then it's because you want a color-blind society which would remove race relations because it makes you uncomfortable. It's pretty obvious you don't like discussions about race considering how they "ruin the positive vibe".

 

I prefer these words:

 

"I have a dream that one day on the red hills of Georgia, the sons of former slaves and the sons of former slave owners will be able to sit down together at the table of brotherhood.

I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character."

 

And there is a good reason why he was, is, and will be remembered for those words more than anything else he said.   It's a logical idea.

 

Oh, so you're going to use MLK to try to tell minorities what they should think but as soon as I point out that MLK disagrees with you, you're going to stick with the tiny portion of his message you think agrees with you? Except it doesn't. Just because you judge someone by the content of their character doesn't mean the color of the skin doesn't matter.

[Phil in the Blank]

Says the white guy whose already represented in films.

 

 

Says the white male.

 

 

Interesting that the ones who oppose the diversity in this thread are all white straight males. Cute.

 

 

Oh look another white male.Oh look another white make. Not surprised to see you though after your blackface comments.Oh look another white male. Hey werent you in the blackface thread as well? Sup bud! I "have no life" so yeah, but how are you?White male perhaps?Whats up my duud! How the white life?

 

 

Well done guys! Why respond to the issues raised when you can just attempt to marginalize other people's views through the colour of their skin. How very...umm....ah....errrm......can't quite think what that word is right now. You know...its where you like, judge people based on the colour of the skin??? Arrrgh. It will come to me soon I promise!But in the meantime maybe you should try debating rather than just pointing out skin color. That would be fantastic

[Jandrew]

Well done guys! Why respond to the issues raised when you can just attempt to marginalize other people's views through the colour of their skin. How very...umm....ah....errrm......can't quite think what that word is right now. You know...its where you like, judge people based on the colour of the skin??? Arrrgh. It will come to me soon I promise!But in the meantime maybe you should try debating rather than just pointing out skin color. That would be fantastic

Maybe because you dont get the point? You didnt respond to my paragraph, but instead made an ignorant statement. So since you made an ignorant statement and clearly is not seeing where we're coming from, what else should I say? Like I said, you did the same thing in the blackface thread, and that went on for days, and you still couldnt see why it was problem. Even Rich, a white male, tried to lay it out for you and you still didnt get it. So i dont expect you to get this. Maybe if you replied to me with your thoughts, instead of making an ignorant statement, then yeah we couldve debated, but youre acting like how most white males act in these situations. Dont ry to play some victim, you know it.