Fanboy Wars Thread: Personal Attacks not allowed | With Digital Fur Technology

[langer]

23 minutes ago, rukaio101 said:

Wall of text about meaning of superhero comics, the true meaning of Watchmen and the differences between comics and movie.

 

I'm not dissing your opinion, just don't want to quote the entire thing. 

 

I have to say that I also didn't understand the meaning of Watchmen when I read it, if this really was the intention of Alan Moore (twisted version of heroes and villains).  I don't understand your criticism of the sex aspect of the movie.  The comic book showed how much it was important to the story line and to pretty much all characters.  As far as copy pasting, I'm glad we finally have a movie that is not a different take based on the original material, but a frame by frame rendition (with the squid alien being the main difference).    

 

Even though I don't agree with you,  it's interesting to see how this movie and comic book can be analyzed from different aspect. 

[ChipDerby]

etcetcetcetcetcetcetcetc

 

[ChipDerby]

look at me guys i can post gifs that i think are hilarious how cool am i

[rukaio101]

15 minutes ago, langer said:

 

I'm not dissing your opinion, just don't want to quote the entire thing. 

 

I have to say that I also didn't understand the meaning of Watchmen when I read it, if this really was the intention of Alan Moore (twisted version of heroes and villains).  I don't understand your criticism of the sex aspect of the movie.  The comic book showed how much it was important to the story line and to pretty much all characters.  As far as copy pasting, I'm glad we finally have a movie that is not a different take based on the original material, but a frame by frame rendition (with the squid alien being the main difference).    

 

Even though I don't agree with you,  it's interesting to see how this movie and comic book can be analyzed from different aspect. 

Yeah, it is always fascinating to see all the different views and layers you can find from a story like Watchmen. Part of what makes such a great read.

 

Anyway, I think you're misunderstanding about the sex thing. It's not the sex itself which is the problem. It's Snyder's stylisation and fetishising the scene which is the issue and making it, for lack of a better word, too sexy. The sex scene was in the original graphic novel, but it wasn't like Snyder's. It was a tubby past-his-prime superhero getting it on in an undignified and unglamorous way. But that, in a way, made it feel all the more human and real. Which was what Snyder lost when he... 'Snydered' it up in the movie. 

 

As for copy pasting, you're missing the point that frame to frame renditions don't work, or at least don't work as well. Comics and films are different mediums and require different techniques to function properly. For example, did you know that one of the layout for one of the issues of Watchmen (Issue #5) was designed to be symmetrical? As in the first page mirrors the last, 2nd page mirrors the 2nd last, etc etc, until it all met in the middle with this panel.

 

Now how do you replicate that same effect in a film, which has no panels or pages for such symmetry to work? There are ways to do it, but that requires changing stuff. You have to change to fit the medium. It may not be as drastic as changing huge swaths of the story, but you still have change. Snyder doesn't. That's why, no matter how loyal his adaptation was, no matter how much he may replicate a panel down to the perfect detail, it's still forever doomed to be a square peg shoved into a round hole. And as such, it can never live up to, let alone transcend its original source material.

 

To sum up, for a good adaptation to work, it needs to change to fit the medium. For it to change effectively from the original source, the creative teams needs to understand said creative source. Snyder doesn't. Hence why his adaptation doesn't capture the same greatness as the comic.

[ChipDerby]

Watchmen the film was better than Watchmen the graphic novel.

[langer]

25 minutes ago, rukaio101 said:

Yeah, it is always fascinating to see all the different views and layers you can find from a story like Watchmen. Part of what makes such a great read.

 

Anyway, I think you're misunderstanding about the sex thing. It's not the sex itself which is the problem. It's Snyder's stylisation and fetishising the scene which is the issue and making it, for lack of a better word, too sexy. The sex scene was in the original graphic novel, but it wasn't like Snyder's. It was a tubby past-his-prime superhero getting it on in an undignified and unglamorous way. But that, in a way, made it feel all the more human and real. Which was what Snyder lost when he... 'Snydered' it up in the movie. 

 

As for copy pasting, you're missing the point that frame to frame renditions don't work, or at least don't work as well. Comics and films are different mediums and require different techniques to function properly. For example, did you know that one of the layout for one of the issues of Watchmen (Issue #5) was designed to be symmetrical? As in the first page mirrors the last, 2nd page mirrors the 2nd last, etc etc, until it all met in the middle with this panel.

 

Now how do you replicate that same effect in a film, which has no panels or pages for such symmetry to work? There are ways to do it, but that requires changing stuff. You have to change to fit the medium. It may not be as drastic as changing huge swaths of the story, but you still have change. Snyder doesn't. That's why, no matter how loyal his adaptation was, no matter how much he may replicate a panel down to the perfect detail, it's still forever doomed to be a square peg shoved into a round hole. And as such, it can never live up to, let alone transcend its original source material.

 

To sum up, for a good adaptation to work, it needs to change to fit the medium. For it to change effectively from the original source, the creative teams needs to understand said creative source. Snyder doesn't. Hence why his adaptation doesn't capture the same greatness as the comic.

 

I have no problem with Snydered up sex scenes.  As far as I'm concerned the first sex scene in both comic and movie is about the tubby past his prime impotent Night Owl.  The second scene in both comic and movie is between two adults high on adrenaline.  The main difference is that Snyder lingered on Silk Spectre's body before the flame thrower scene.   I'm not sure where that deviates from the original material as far as what impression it's trying to convey. 

 

I'll agree with you that trying to replicate the uniqueness of symmetrical panels into a movie is a hard feat, but the scenes depicted in the movie still convey the same message even though its uniqueness is missing. 

 

One thing that we might both agree on is that Snyder probably wasn't trying to replicate the greatness/uniqueness  of the original material by replicating said uniqueness through a movie, but rather was trying to retell the same story through the same visuals without regards to what made the original source unique. 

 

As far as I'm concerned, he did a good job of retelling the story and showing us the Watchmen universe, failed to recreate the uniqueness of the source material under the movie medium but made a unique frame to frame comic book movie. 

[Hangman]

..

Edited September 20, 2017 by Hangman

[DMan7]

The Watchmen movie was terrible. LOL I can't believe some people thought that movie was actually good or even "a great comic book movie".

[ChipDerby]

[Hangman]

On 5/13/2016 at 3:13 PM, BKB IS CAPTAIN AMERICA said:

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Edited September 20, 2017 by Hangman

[langer]

24 minutes ago, DMan7 said:

The Watchmen movie was terrible. LOL I can't believe some people thought that movie was actually good or even "a great comic book movie".

 

Watchmen is not a movie for kids or teenagers.  I understand if you didn't like it.

[Fancyarcher]

1 hour ago, Hangman said:

 

 

How could Snyder "hammer this home" when the story/script was the problem for BvS. Batman wanting to kill Superman for a 1% chance that he was dangerous even though Batman was killing a whole bunch of people throughout the movie. Then suddenly stop because of their mother's names??? Snyder told Ben he could make it work and Ben believed him? Please.

 

Why would Nolan have done a better job? Stop being a Nolan fan boy. TDKR was horrible...Bane put Batman in an unguarded pit with doctors and cheerful inmates which was "impossible" to escape from, even though a little girl did it??? Eisenberg was terrible as Lex, but nothing compares to Talia's shameful death scene. Nolan was too busy counting his money to re-shoot that scene or even care to make TDKR even half as good as TDK. Nolan was a producer for MoS and BvS, did it help?

 

And Bale wasn't offered RDJ money for BvS, he wasn't offered anything.  He was good, but he's not iconic as RDJ as IM or even Hugh as Wolverine.

 

Nolan was technically only an executive producer on BVS. He actually barely had anything to do with the production of the film. Plus to me, there are a few more cringe worthy moments in BVS then Talia's death scenes (Martha being one of them), which is only three seconds, and didn't even necessarily even bug me in the first place. 

 

Also I'm not some huge Nolan fanboy either. I'm a fan of his work, but he's hardly my favorite director ever.

Edited May 13, 2016 by Daniel Dylan Davis

[Thrylos 7]

Watchmen was a crime against cinema .

[Walt Disney]

55 minutes ago, Daniel Dylan Davis said:

 

Nolan was technically only an executive producer on BVS. He actually barely had anything to do with the production of the film. Plus to me, there are a few more cringe worthy moments in BVS then Talia's death scenes (Martha being one of them), which is only three seconds, and didn't even necessarily even bug me in the first place.

 

Also I'm not some huge Nolan fanboy either. I'm a fan of his work, but he's hardly my favorite director ever.

 

I really didn't mind the Talia death scene at all. However, BvS just had so much wrong. Lex Luthor acting more like the Joker than Lex Luthor is one. The whole Martha thing is another. BvS was just a bad movie.

[Kvikk Lunsj]

2 hours ago, Hangman said:

 

 

How could Snyder "hammer this home" when the story/script was the problem for BvS. Batman wanting to kill Superman for a 1% chance that he was dangerous even though Batman was killing a whole bunch of people throughout the movie. Then suddenly stop because of their mother's names??? Snyder told Ben he could make it work and Ben believed him? Please.

 

Why would Nolan have done a better job? Stop being a Nolan fan boy. TDKR was horrible...Bane put Batman in an unguarded pit with doctors and cheerful inmates which was "impossible" to escape from, even though a little girl did it??? Eisenberg was terrible as Lex, but nothing compares to Talia's shameful death scene. Nolan was too busy counting his money to re-shoot that scene or even care to make TDKR even half as good as TDK. Nolan was a producer for MoS and BvS, did it help?

 

And Bale wasn't offered RDJ money for BvS, he wasn't offered anything.  He was good, but he's not iconic as RDJ as IM or even Hugh as Wolverine.

Movies are opinion based but TDKR is widely consider better.  TDKR has a better critic score and user score on every website, it has a higher multiplier, it is going to gross more domestically and worldwide. BvS is not well liked by the majority of people. 

[DMan7]

1 hour ago, langer said:

 

Watchmen is not a movie for kids or teenagers.  I understand if you didn't like it.

 

The movie was a convoluted mess with major pacing problems throughout another signature move by Snyder by over shooting and having to trim down. 

[DMan7]

I wonder what are the chances of a DC movie in the same year outgrossing it's closest released Marvel movie of that year?

 

2016:

BvS Vs Civil War = Civil War

Suicide Squad Vs Doc Strange = ?

 

2017:

WW Vs GOTG 2 = GOTG 2

JL Vs Thor 3 = ?

 

2018:

BP Vs Flash= ?

Infinity War 1 Vs Aquaman = IW 1

 

[Julianjunja]

1 hour ago, DMan7 said:

I wonder what are the chances of a DC movie in the same year outgrossing it's closest released Marvel movie of that year?

 

2016:

BvS Vs Civil War = Civil War

Suicide Squad Vs Doc Strange = ?

 

2017:

WW Vs GOTG 2 = GOTG 2

JL Vs Thor 3 = ?

 

2018:

BP Vs Flash= ?

Infinity War 1 Vs Aquaman = IW 1

 

Suicide Squad

JL

Black Panther 

[Otakusai]

Whats going on in this thread guise? 

[theStun]

2 hours ago, DMan7 said:

I wonder what are the chances of a DC movie in the same year outgrossing it's closest released Marvel movie of that year?

 

2016:

BvS Vs Civil War = Civil War

Suicide Squad Vs Doc Strange = ?

 

2017:

WW Vs GOTG 2 = GOTG 2

JL Vs Thor 3 = ?

 

2018:

BP Vs Flash= ?

Infinity War 1 Vs Aquaman = IW 1

 

 

I could see SS besting DS by around 100M+ 

And JL should beat Thor 

Black panther is going to destroy Flash though unless JL breaks out and flash is a huge highlight of the film.