SUICIDE SQUAD WEEKEND THREAD | New REVISED SUNDAY NUMBER 134m FROM GURU ON PG 212 | 267.1M WW OW | Nine Lives 6.5 OW |No Spoilers Allowed!!! | ACCOUNT SALES THIS WEEKEND - see first post for details !!

[Gopher]

I think y'all are missing the forrest for the trees. Yes, Suicide Squad cost probably more money to make than the concept probably warranted. No, it'll probably make back its money whether it's by the time it's in dollar theaters or on Blu-Ray or on TV. But it won't do what it needed to do for WB after BvS blew a tire - convince audiences this universe is worth investing in. This is what the THR article was referring to when Kevin was pissed at how these movies are damaging the DC brand. Suicide's IM is as bad as BvS', and its legs won't be much better.

 

Put it another way - a Suicide Squad 2 on its own would plummet from this film's OW.

[Johnny Tran]

1 hour ago, superweirdo87 said:

 

1. The production costs might have been higher than 175m. 

 

And that only happens with WB of course. No other studio goes over the listed budget.

[Dephira]

21 minutes ago, superweirdo87 said:

As long as numbers look good enough, it might be enough for shareholders. Also, you just doubled theatrical revenues. If you are really serious about just judging on theatrical revenues, then it's important to remember that foreign box office brings in forty cents for the dollar outside of China.

 

Slightly off-topic now, but the 40% number for foreign box office often gets quoted as gospel when I don't think it's very accurate either. At least in Germany, a major foreign market, back when Avengers 2 came out it was revealed that Disney gets 47-53% of the ticket price depending on the movie theater. I'm not sure what it's like for all other foreign countries but I'm not sure 40% is quite accurate overall.

Edited August 9, 2016 by Dephira

[jb007]

7 minutes ago, Gopher said:

I think y'all are missing the forrest for the trees. Yes, Suicide Squad cost probably more money to make than the concept probably warranted. No, it'll probably make back its money whether it's by the time it's in dollar theaters or on Blu-Ray or on TV. But it won't do what it needed to do for WB after BvS blew a tire - convince audiences this universe is worth investing in. This is what the THR article was referring to when Kevin was pissed at how these movies are damaging the DC brand. Suicide's IM is as bad as BvS', and its legs won't be much better.

 

Put it another way - a Suicide Squad 2 on its own would plummet from this film's OW.

 

 

No doubt about it. The potential was there to set the movie up for a few successful sequels of its own. Now that may be a stretch.

 

While I'm uncertain of the real potential of SS, I would like to think a good Superman and Batman movie would have approached a multiplier of about 3 ala The Avengers. IMHO, the potential loss was of an additional multiplier of 1 due to the movie being terrible i.e a potential loss $160 M from domestic market . I'm just speculating that this is what DC/WB left on the table in the domestic market.

[MikeQ]

31 minutes ago, RRA said:

 

Umm, yeah? That's not what we're talking about. I'm talking theatrical because these studios live and die on theatrical #s in public for their stockholders.  Perception is reality. DVD and cable and stuff, that's supposed to be the "pure gravy" to be enjoyed on top of the theatrical profits.

 

 

This is just not true, and others have already touched on this really well. The theatrical release is only one release window in the money-making journey that a studio film takes. The theatrical release is followed by airlines and PPV, video on demand, retail, television, and merchandising, etc. These are all important sources of income that help movies reach profitability, and can't be discounted. If you're going to talk about all of the different costs associated with making and releasing a film, you also need to include all of the ways in which studios make money off of those films.

 

You use BvS as an example, but it is not indicative of your usual blockbuster. It was intended to be a launching point for a movie universe and a slew of blockbuster movies for years to come, and then was considered a failure in terms of critical and commercial reception, and so naturally the studio was scared and made some administrative/creative shakeups.

 

Peace,

Mike

 

[Dementeleus]

4 minutes ago, Dephira said:

 

Slightly off-topic now, but the 40% number for foreign box office often gets quoted as gospel when I don't think it's very accurate either. At least in Germany, a major foreign market, back when Avengers 2 came out it was revealed that Disney gets 47-53% of the ticket price depending on the movie theater. I'm not sure what it's like for all other foreign countries but I'm not sure 40% is quite accurate overall.

 

This article here (written by a producer) says "Studios received an average of 53% of the box office gross domestically and 41% of the international gross." That's an average, and I don't think we should take it as absolute gospel, but it's a better figure than the usual vagaries we've heard.

 

[superweirdo87]

Gopher, I totally agree that Suicide Squad failed in that arena.

 

I do think it's interesting how much people have been talking budget on this thread. I think that THR quote with the 750M/800M figure just left a lot of people thinking, "Huh." They also wanted to figure it out because of the situation with SS's potentially weak legs.

 

But, yeah, after the reception of BvS, the terrific marketing had people optimistic about Suicide Squad. Clearly, something about the pitch struck a real chord with people. The movie looked different and fun. A lot of reviewers and fans felt like the Snyderverse was joyless and he took the dark too far and left behind fun. And Suicide Squad's trailers were so good.

 

There was a visceral sense that Suicide Squad might win people over. The way the movie turned out is a huge blow to WB/DC. DC has won people over a lot with trailers. But, if things do not turn around, pop culture writers will probably discuss that marketing with a more reserve and skeptical tone, and some of the audience might get more suspicious too. It could chip away over time.

 

http://www.gq.com/story/suicide-squad-just-as-fun-as-batman-v-superman-wasnt

[Johnny Tran]

18 minutes ago, Gopher said:

 But it won't do what it needed to do for WB after BvS blew a tire - convince audiences this universe is worth investing in.

 

In the end, these two movies did what they needed to do. Wonder Woman has buzz. Batman film will have huge buzz. Harley Quinn movie will have huge buzz. There's nothing missing here..  even Man of Steel 2 is coming..  maybe if the movies continue down the path they have there'd be an issue but currently there is not an issue.

 

People thought Batman was dead years ago before Nolan brought it back. These characters are never going away.

[Dementeleus]

3 minutes ago, Johnny Tran said:

People thought Batman was dead years ago before Nolan brought it back. These characters are never going away.

 

There's always going to be buzz and interest in the Big Three. What gets hurt with DCEU's lackluster reception are the lower-tier titles.

[ZattMurdock]

I'll disagree with Gopher hard here. I think Suicide Squad, regardless if it's critically panned, it's a different beast than BvS or MoS. I was discussing on Twitter right now about this and came to the realization that I'm way more interested in a Harley Quinn solo film where she gets to own the Joker and a Suicide Squad sequel with a proper prep time and polished screenplay than I can even muster think about Snyder's League. I think Suicide Squad resonated with a way younger crowd than us and WB would be wise to green light a sequel and push it to fast track to 2018 or 2019, but most of all I want a Harley Quinn solo film way more than I want a Ben Affleck's Batman film, and this is coming from one of the biggest and oldest Batman fans around here. I see potential in here. And unlike BvS or MoS, I don't think it is wasted potential, merely under utilized. Give me a Harley Quinn solo film with a Deadpool like budget, release it in Valentine's Day and make the most epic power fantasy of a abuse victim owning the crap of her abuser, both physically AND mentally. That's the DCEU film that I really want to see now.

Edited August 9, 2016 by iJackSparrow

[Ozymandias]

34 minutes ago, Gopher said:

I think y'all are missing the forrest for the trees. Yes, Suicide Squad cost probably more money to make than the concept probably warranted. No, it'll probably make back its money whether it's by the time it's in dollar theaters or on Blu-Ray or on TV. But it won't do what it needed to do for WB after BvS blew a tire - convince audiences this universe is worth investing in. This is what the THR article was referring to when Kevin was pissed at how these movies are damaging the DC brand. Suicide's IM is as bad as BvS', and its legs won't be much better.

 

Put it another way - a Suicide Squad 2 on its own would plummet from this film's OW.

 

"Suicide Squad is an even bigger disaster than BvS"

 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmendelson/2016/08/08/suicide-squad-is-a-bigger-disaster-than-batman-v-superman/#1ed5da061744

Edited August 9, 2016 by Ozymandias

[Johnny Tran]

Just now, Tele the Jet Baller said:

 

There's always going to be buzz and interest in the Big Three. What gets hurt with DCEU's lackluster reception are the lower-tier titles.

 

That's true but I don't know what potential plans were messed up by this.  That Cyborg movie, nobody believed it was coming out even when it was announced. I'm assuming Teen Titans if at all. The Flash is probably going to have a smaller budget. Whether it was going to be Suicide Squad 2 or a Harley Quinn solo, I don't see much of a difference. I don't think they were going to sell anyone on Slipknot and Croc etc.  It was always about Quinn and then maybe Deadshot. The Harley Quinn character was only helped by this movie. Margot is now Harley Quinn, audiences want to see her.

 

If Wonder Woman opens up poorly or if Justice League opens up poorly I'd think there is a huge problem but right now I'm not seeing it.

[GiantCALBears]

Deadpool has to be opening of the year now, I don't see anything else surprising to that level on the schedule.

[Dementeleus]

7 minutes ago, Ozymandias said:

 

"Suicide Squad is an even bigger disaster than BvS"

 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmendelson/2016/08/08/suicide-squad-is-a-bigger-disaster-than-batman-v-superman/#1ed5da061744

 

Scott Mendelson is the Cinemascore of online box-office discussion.

 

edit: it's even worse, his argument is basically "I hated it and it was awful and therefore it is worse for DC than BVS, which I also hated (though not as much)."

[Johnny Tran]

5 minutes ago, Ozymandias said:

 

"Suicide Squad is an even bigger disaster than BvS"

 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmendelson/2016/08/08/suicide-squad-is-a-bigger-disaster-than-batman-v-superman/#1ed5da061744

 

Clickbait. The writer says again and again "this was a bad movie" but provides nothing, no type of substantial evidence that the movie is going to damage WB/DC moving forward. I agree with him, it's not a good movie. Outside of that there's no meat on the article at all.

[Ozymandias]

11 minutes ago, Tele the Jet Baller said:

 

Scott Mendelson is the Cinemascore of online box-office discussion.

 

edit: it's even worse, his argument is basically "I hated it and it was awful and therefore it is worse for DC than BVS, which I also hated (though not as much)."

 

Eh, hes right that these DC films aren't filmmaker driven at all.  They're corporate committee meddling nonsense.  Hes also right that the current quality of DC films is unsustainable.   If it keeps up, pretty soon the only people left showing up to these movies are gonna be the drooling fanboys that will watch/love these films no matter what, and they alone are not enough to make money on.

Edited August 9, 2016 by Ozymandias

[Belakor]

13 minutes ago, Tele the Jet Baller said:

 

Scott Mendelson is the Cinemascore of online box-office discussion.

 

edit: it's even worse, his argument is basically "I hated it and it was awful and therefore it is worse for DC than BVS, which I also hated (though not as much)."

Ummm, He´s right.

Edited August 9, 2016 by Belakor

[Johnny Tran]

I'm so tired of these "sky is falling" arguments lol.  Maybe it will. One day.  But people who want to discuss this a day after a movie opens up to $133M in August. The same movie that most were predicting (a year ago) anywhere from $60M-$80M tops.

 

Yeah, that's just rooting against a franchise and hoping it dies out.   If Doctor Strange opens to $133M I doubt there will be any of this feigned concern. Wait, I don't want to make this a Marvel thing.. okay so if Skull Island opens up to $133M (but has bad reviews) are people going to be scared for the future of the Godzilla franchise?

Edited August 9, 2016 by Johnny Tran

[ZattMurdock]

4 minutes ago, GiantCALBears said:

Deadpool has to be opening of the year now, I don't see anything else surprising to that level on the schedule.

I'll go even further and claim that THE box office story of the year is Deadpool. And I'm proud that I've called it long before most people here did.  

[ZattMurdock]

http://comicbook.com/2016/08/09/suicide-squad-moviegoer-suing-warner-bros-for-falsely-advertisin/