Classic Conversation Thread

[75Live]

1 minute ago, YourMother the Edgelord said:

They try tackling school shootings in Season 2. It doesn’t work well.

 

but season 2 does teach the lesson that disinfecting a mop handle before use is a good thing

[The Panda]

19 minutes ago, CoolioD1 said:

this just reminds me when right wing newspapers in the UK like ten years ago went off on My Chemical Romance because a fan killed herself and suddenly they were reporting that the band were leaders of a suicide cult, cos they have songs about suicide. i don't think the creators of 13ry think suicide is an especially good idea.

It doesn’t matter if they think it’s a good idea if they’re still irresponsibly glorifying it and ignoring criticism from mental health professionals about how they are portraying it.

 

At best the show creators grossly misunderstand the issues that cause suicide, what leads to it and how it’s prevented and is dangerous.  At worst theyre aware of this and decided to go through with it anyways because they thought it’d sell better.

[FantasticBeasts]

2 minutes ago, AJG said:

 

“That guy didn’t shoot up the school because he had ‘mental health’ issues, he shot it because he played Call of Duty”

 

Thats how dumb the 13 Reasons Why-Causes Suicide argument sounds to me.

 

22 minutes ago, CoolioD1 said:

this just reminds me when right wing newspapers in the UK like ten years ago went off on My Chemical Romance because a fan killed herself and suddenly they were reporting that the band were leaders of a suicide cult, cos they have songs about suicide. i don't think the creators of 13ry think suicide is an especially good idea.

So you really guys disagree that it is an inappropriate watch for someone depressed? I am not saying that it will get you into the thought without having troubles by your own of cource, but for someone that has pre-existing trouble and suicidal thoughts, it surely makes the idea of suicide look more tempting. 

[The Panda]

2 minutes ago, YourMother the Edgelord said:

They try tackling school shootings in Season 2. It doesn’t work well.

Lol, I heard about that.  Sounds like they’re taking hot button issues and romanticizing them because they sell.  So they haven’t taken any of the criticisms to heart.

 

I despise that show.  I’d rather give Uwe Boll a Star Wars movie than let 13RY have another season.

[AJG]

4 minutes ago, FantasticBeasts said:

 

So you really guys disagree that it is an inappropriate watch for someone depressed? I am not saying that it will get you into the thought without having troubles by your own of cource, but for someone that has pre-existing trouble and suicidal thoughts, it surely makes the idea of suicide look more tempting. 

 

People should be addressing the issues that caused those people to initially have those thoughts and ideas rather than wasting time and distracting from the actual problems by blaming a TV show.

 

Edited May 30, 2018 by AJG

[CoolioD1]

 

4 minutes ago, FantasticBeasts said:

 

So you really guys disagree that it is an inappropriate watch for someone depressed? I am not saying that it will get you into the thought without having troubles by your own of cource, but for someone that has pre-existing trouble and suicidal thoughts, it surely makes the idea of suicide look more tempting. 

if someone who's already troubled watches it, then i don't think the show would be responsible or accountable for anything, no.

[YM!]

2 minutes ago, Pandamia! said:

Lol, I heard about that.  Sounds like they’re taking hot button issues and romanticizing them because they sell.  So they haven’t taken any of the criticisms to heart.

 

I despise that show.  I’d rather give Uwe Boll a Star Wars movie than let 13RY have another season.

It does. They do romanticize it. They make it so obvious.

 

I used to tolerate Season 1 but Season 2 was so shit, I really want this show dead. Also some of the shit in Season 2 is stupid. Ghost Hannah is awful.

[CoolioD1]

 

[The Panda]

8 minutes ago, AJG said:

 

“That guy didn’t shoot up the school because he had ‘mental health’ issues, he shot it because he played Call of Duty”

 

Thats how dumb the 13 Reasons Why-Causes Suicide argument sounds to me.

Completely different things.  Call of Duty isn’t a game trying to tackle the issue of school shootings and why they happen.

 

Also what causes somebody to go on a shooting spree is NOT the same thing as what causes somebody to commit suicide.  They’re both mental health issues, but that’d be like saying ALS and Cancer are the same thing.  

 

The backlash against CoD is from conservative parents trying to blame something else besides guns.  The backlash against 13RY is from actual professionals who realized the show could serve as a trigger due to the mishandling of the issue and not appropriately showing how an individual could get help (and even worse, showing the counselors and parents to be oblivious idiots)

[Water Bottle]

12 minutes ago, AJG said:

 

“That guy didn’t shoot up the school because he had ‘mental health’ issues, he shot it because he played Call of Duty”

 

Thats how dumb the 13 Reasons Why-Causes Suicide argument sounds to me.

 

I think most experts don't think Call of Duty encourages school shootings but if the experts are saying 13 Reasons Why might help lead someone already suicidial to commit suicide...I'm going to side with the experts on this one.

[FantasticBeasts]

1 minute ago, AJG said:

 

People should be addressing the issues that caused those people to initially have those thoughts and ideas rather than wasting time and distracting from the actual problems by blaming a TV show.

 

Of cource you cannot blame a TV show on the suicide of someone, this I agree but it is also concerning that a show is glorifying suicide in such a way that it can make people cross the line needed to go for it.

The whole show is based on a revenge narrative that is completely false and also makes it seem as though someone commiting suicide can be other people's fault which can be reassuring in a dangerous manner.

[Chewy]

2 hours ago, aabattery said:

 

@Chewy

 

This is a normal organization. Move on, find a new slant

[The Panda]

4 minutes ago, CoolioD1 said:

 

if someone who's already troubled watches it, then i don't think the show would be responsible or accountable for anything, no.

The show isn’t dangerous because it’s responsible for/causes suicide.  It’s dangerous because it romanticizes it in a way that could be a trigger for somebody already on the edge, without showing anyway for help/hope.

 

Compare this to how a satire show (Crazy-Ex) dealt with the issue.  That show also portrays a suicide attempt, but shows hope, shows the wrong way to support somebody as well as the right way, and it shows getting help as a positive factor in the character’s life.  It also correctly identifies mental illness as the cause, and doesn’t blame any outside factors or the character itself.  That show is also a much, much, much better show than 13RY.

[FantasticBeasts]

6 minutes ago, CoolioD1 said:

 

if someone who's already troubled watches it, then i don't think the show would be responsible or accountable for anything, no.

That's like saying that If someone is already a drug addict then the dealer is not responsible.

[CoolioD1]

Just now, FantasticBeasts said:

That's like saying that If someone is already a drug addict then the dealer is not responsible.

uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[The Panda]

2 minutes ago, FantasticBeasts said:

That's like saying that If someone is already a drug addict then the dealer is not responsible.

Idk if I’d say 13RY is responsible for suicide because that’s the same thing as blaming bullying.  I’d think the correct response is they can both make somebody who already has mental health issues and at risk of suicide at heightened risk.

[FantasticBeasts]

1 minute ago, CoolioD1 said:

uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

But that's what you are saying; that harming a person that is already harmed gives an aliby.

Yep, for a person to commit suicide they need to have faced lots of shit and also done mistakes by themselves but that doesn't give the show the right to romanticize the idea for them.

[CoolioD1]

3 minutes ago, Pandamia! said:

The show isn’t dangerous because it’s responsible for/causes suicide.  It’s dangerous because it romanticizes it in a way that could be a trigger for somebody already on the edge, without showing anyway for help/hope.

 

Compare this to how a satire show (Crazy-Ex) dealt with the issue.  That show also portrays a suicide attempt, but shows hope, shows the wrong way to support somebody as well as the right way, and it shows getting help as a positive factor in the character’s life.  It also correctly identifies mental illness as the cause, and doesn’t blame any outside factors or the character itself.  That show is also a much, much, much better show than 13RY.

i don't know man you're just saying the same thing and i'll just keep saying the same thing. if somebody's already on the edge that isn't the show's problem to me.

[FantasticBeasts]

Just now, Pandamia! said:

Idk if I’d say 13RY is responsible for suicide because that’s the same thing as blaming bullying.  I’d think the correct response is they can both make somebody who already has mental health issues and at risk of suicide at heightened risk.

That's exacrly what I believe too, I don't know If I typed something wrong and made it seem otherwise...

And that's something quite concerning which makes the show problematic. You cannot give an aliby and say that because the people had already mental health problems showing them that they can take a sweet revenge from anyone that harmed them by killing themselves is ok.

[The Panda]

Just now, CoolioD1 said:

i don't know man you're just saying the same thing and i'll just keep saying the same thing. if somebody's already on the edge that isn't the show's problem to me.

Im saying the show is one that’s targetted at teens (who are at heightened risks of suicides) and it at minimum irresponsibly covers the topic.

 

The creators had been given recommendations to follow when portraying a show about suicide by experts in order to reduce the risks of it being a trigger and they blatantly ignored those recommendations.  They got further critcized since then, and still refused to backtread.  It is the show creators problem that they’re ignoring actual professional criticism that their show is dangerous for a good portion of their target audience (at bare minimum it grossly miseducates teens about suicide and mental health).