The Marvels | November 10, 2023 | Abandon All Hope Ye Who Enter

[Liiviig 1998]

20 minutes ago, Deep Wang said:

 

I have to imagine part of that has been the delays and schedule shuffling?

It's not about scheduling or shuffling . Even if movie sequels are five years apart if the connective tissue within is laid out properly then everything will be fine .

 

I'm specifically talking about the MCU which is a very interconnected universe . What I've said above  doesn't apply for any other franchises .

[SpiderByte]

23 minutes ago, Liiviig 1998 said:

They have released like 10 different projects with very little connective tissue in the last 2 years since eternals  and more to be added till the movie  releases next year.

Because then people complain about "too much setting up for the future." And "no way for new audiences to get onboard" Not everything needs to be a setup for something else, and not everything is going to be. People have been complaining about the "mystery" of who bought Avengers tower in homecoming when people are just going to have to accept that it's not that important 

Edited July 29, 2023 by SpiderByte

[Liiviig 1998]

58 minutes ago, SpiderByte said:

Because then people complain about "too much setting up for the future." And "no way for new audiences to get onboard" Not everything needs to be a setup for something else, and not everything is going to be. People have been complaining about the "mystery" of who bought Avengers tower in homecoming when people are just going to have to accept that it's not that important 

Oñce again . Infinity saga movies were never just for set up . Each of the solo projects stood pretty much on their own.

 

Some were culprits of this looking at  you"  AOU " and we all know  how heavily it was criticized for that.

 

Not every  movie needs to set up things but with infinity saga when pivotal moments happened ,there were taken seriously and there was direct response or consequence in the universe.

 

To give an example Winter solidier works pretty much as a stand alone movie . But still hydra having infiltrated shield has massive ramifications that play a hand in civil war and to the signing of sokovia accords in a post credit scene sets up a plotline for AoU.

 

This looks something the minor but when such details are handled so we'll it creates immersion and it feels liked a fully realized and lived in world . Much as the characters have their own movies and plotlines.

 

It's not that she hulk  or every show has to set up or anything but my question is after celestials in eternals why in any of these so called 10 projects has nothing been mentioned . Looks small but it highlights issues with the world building problem in the current phases.

 

To give more context to this.

 

Don't know which episode it is in she hulk but they casaually say the sokovia accords have been enulled and iam like  ok. This is the very thing that split the avengers and changed the status of the avengers and government interactions . Avengers being divided also enabled Thanos to defeat them in IW  but no just cast them away in a random throway line. In the post blip world the accords  would be a very good source of conflict for many potential storylines.

If they wanted to enull them it should have been a significant moment in a film.

 

Waldron literally didn't watch wandavision before deciding on the final elements of the DS2 and Wanda's character.

 

Infinity saga wasn't exactly planned from start to finish but fiege and team  cared about even minute details. Lines of dialogue like " on your left" , "iam ironman" or " I can do this all day" among many others had history and told us something about our characters and their journeys. Even God damn quips and jokes had significance.

 

At least if the solo projects this phases  were great but reception is hit and miss for those too. 

 

It's clear MCU went into full throttle in putting out content , new writers brought in don't want to do their homework for their very projects . 

 

Small nano issues that may seem insignificant are  slowely cascading  into largers issues .

 

But they clearly slowing down and that's a good thing because the foundation and approach  of the multiverse saga was shaky to begin with.

Edited July 29, 2023 by Liiviig 1998

[BK007]

1 hour ago, Liiviig 1998 said:

MCU has always been playing the long game but previous saga  was so much better at setting up and leading up to those events. 

 

Civil war happens , it's literally referenced in homecoming. Which is 1 year apart  and 1 movie in between.

 

They have released like 10 different projects with very little connective tissue in the last 2 years since eternals  and more to be added till the movie  releases next year.

 

I know you are not hard on MCU as the rest here but even you have to admit that's simply not a good strategy. 

 

DS2 literally just slams Wanda being evil on the get go at the audience in like the first few minutes and oh boy were some just confused.

 

Same is going to probably  happen esp in cap 4 .

 

My criticism is not on MCU playing the long game but how it's being played and it's clearly putting a burden on the GA and believe me they care and bothered despite some saying it has no impact .

 

When we say shows are ruining the MCU by oversaturation ,this is what we clearly  mean . Shows don't directly affect box office but they affect the overall storytelling which in turn affects the quality of the films hence leading to audience disatisfaction hence affecting box office returns.

 

 

 

Yeah I hated DS2. 

 

But I also disliked Wandavision. 

 

They just destroyed her character for seemingly no good reason. 

 

And they've done the same here with Secret Invasion, killing Maria Hill and Talos, making Nick Fury a joke, rewriting Rhodey's history. Enough of this crap. 

 

 

[SpiderByte]

21 minutes ago, Liiviig 1998 said:

In the post blip world the accords  would be a very good source of conflict for many potential storylines.

If they wanted to enull them it should have been a significant moment in a film

They absolutely do not need a whole movie to get rid of the Sokovia accords. This is what I mean about putting emphasis on the wrong things.

 

And the movie that did the most to set up the multiverse Saga, Quantumania, is the one people complain about most...for being too much about setting up the Multiverse Saga. Everyone wants to rush into Kang Dynasty and Secret Wars, which would only hurt it, which is why it's good theyve pushed both movies back.

[Liiviig 1998]

11 minutes ago, SpiderByte said:

They absolutely do not need a whole movie to get rid of the Sokovia accords. This is what I mean about putting emphasis on the wrong things.

 

And the movie that did the most to set up the multiverse Saga, Quantumania, is the one people complain about most...for being too much about setting up the Multiverse Saga. Everyone wants to rush into Kang Dynasty and Secret Wars, which would only hurt it, which is why it's good theyve pushed both movies back.

LMAO since when do  they need a whole movie . I said let it be a significant moment in a movie. Treat it with the gravity it deserves and not some random throwaway line in a sitcom.

Edited July 29, 2023 by Liiviig 1998

[Liiviig 1998]

8 minutes ago, SpiderByte said:

And the movie that did the most to set up the multiverse Saga, Quantumania, is the one people complain about most...for being too much about setting up the Multiverse Saga. Everyone wants to rush into Kang Dynasty and Secret Wa

Loki in it's season finale  did more towards setting up the multiversal saga than quantumania as a whole movie ever did. 

What an absolute waste of a movie. 

 

[SpiderByte]

6 minutes ago, Liiviig 1998 said:

Loki in it's season finale  did more towards setting up the multiversal saga than quantumania as a whole movie ever did. 

What an absolute waste of a movie. 

 

You don't think the movie that introduced Kang set up the movie called The Kang Dynasty 

[ChipDerby]

23 minutes ago, SpiderByte said:

You don't think the movie that introduced Kang set up the movie called The Kang Dynasty 

 

No

[Liiviig 1998]

19 minutes ago, SpiderByte said:

You don't think the movie that introduced Kang set up the movie called The Kang Dynasty 

Sure . But overall it just felt like a waste for an antman film.  Doesn't add much to what we learned from Loki which actually gave something on what the multiversal war is.

 

Understand they wanted to introduce Kang but in the end it just did antman a disservice and Kang in the third act were he is just bitten by ants.

 

Not disputing it setting up Kang dynasty as important  but just think Loki did it way better 

[JustLurking]

1 hour ago, SpiderByte said:

They absolutely do not need a whole movie to get rid of the Sokovia accords. This is what I mean about putting emphasis on the wrong things.

 

And the movie that did the most to set up the multiverse Saga, Quantumania, is the one people complain about most...for being too much about setting up the Multiverse Saga. Everyone wants to rush into Kang Dynasty and Secret Wars, which would only hurt it, which is why it's good theyve pushed both movies back.

I'm pretty sure people complain about quantumania because the film is bad, not because of what it sets up man

[SpiderByte]

5 minutes ago, JustLurking said:

I'm pretty sure people complain about quantumania because the film is bad, not because of what it sets up man

Absolutely not, there were many many reviews that were saying it spent too much time setting up Kang for future stuff. A complete 180 from the "where's the next Endgame??" That's been repeated since Black Widow.

 

Can we please stop derailing this thread now please

[PlatnumRoyce]

2 hours ago, SpiderByte said:

People have been complaining about the "mystery" of who bought Avengers tower in homecoming when people are just going to have to accept that it's not that important

 

I imagine there was an intentional tease there but it gets caught up in cross-company IP relationships and eventually just was dropped. If in 2019 they announced Norman Osborn bought it as part of SM3 or if Endgame involved going back to New York, that would presumably have paid off. 

 

2 hours ago, Liiviig 1998 said:

It's clear MCU went into full throttle in putting out content , new writers brought in don't want to do their homework for their very projects . 

 

I doubt its a question of homework . Nothing about Love and Thunder needs to change for the film to have a final scene teasing the High Evolutionary or something about Eternals 2 or Quantomania. I imagine dead/delayed projects messed with some connective tissue but it's also caused by moving some interconnectiveness to TV leaving film teasers twisting in the wind.   

[Liiviig 1998]

10 minutes ago, PlatnumRoyce said:

 

I imagine there was an intentional tease there but it gets caught up in cross-company IP relationships and eventually just was dropped. If in 2019 they announced Norman Osborn bought it as part of SM3 or if Endgame involved going back to New York, that would presumably have paid off. 

 

I doubt its a question of homework . Nothing about Love and Thunder needs to change for the film to have a final scene teasing the High Evolutionary or something about Eternals 2 or Quantomania. I imagine dead/delayed projects messed with some connective tissue but it's also caused by moving some interconnectiveness to TV leaving film teasers twisting in the wind.   

When I say writers not doing their homework what I mean is checking or watching some previous movies so as not do something that heavily contradicts what was set up before especially character case in point Waldron in DS2 and how the Wanda character was handled.

 

 

[JustLurking]

1 hour ago, SpiderByte said:

Absolutely not, there were many many reviews that were saying it spent too much time setting up Kang for future stuff. A complete 180 from the "where's the next Endgame??" That's been repeated since Black Widow.

 

Can we please stop derailing this thread now please

yeah I'm sure the "many many reviews" you're citing reflect the general opinion of internet sentiment and especially general audience

 

they all rejected the film because there was too much setup and not because they simply thought it was bad

 

come on man

[SpiderByte]

26 minutes ago, JustLurking said:

yeah I'm sure the "many many reviews" you're citing reflect the general opinion of internet sentiment and especially general audience

 

they all rejected the film because there was too much setup and not because they simply thought it was bad

 

come on man

Yes, the reviews are publicly available for you to read. A lot of them talk about how setting up the Kang stuff hurt the movie. Idk why you're just saying they don't exist.

 

Maybe now we can talk about this movie instead please.

[JustLurking]

alright I give up, I don't know why I even tried when I already knew the outcome

[Krissykins]

No IMAX, Dune has exclusivity for 2 weeks. 

[SpiderByte]

13 minutes ago, Krissykins said:

No IMAX, Dune has exclusivity for 2 weeks. 

if it keeps it's date, then Marvels gets it. Whether Dune moves seems unclear. It basically comes down to "do they think they need the cast for promotion", since the question of "will the strike still last into the promo period" seems like a very definite yes.

[emoviefan]

Watched CA:WS  again last night for the 9 or 10th time at least. Still my number one MCU movie. Still have not tired of that movie one bit. Comparing the Practical action to the CGI sludge of something like Quantanmania is just Yeah. Or comparing how well the movie lands compared to how badly Secret Invasion missed  the mark.