The Marvels | November 10, 2023 | Abandon All Hope Ye Who Enter

[TMP]

23 minutes ago, Cmasterclay said:

I think this isn't a Marvels problem specifically but a genre issue, I really don't think that people who are still bought in on these movies are ready to accept that audiences are about to start rejecting them en masse outside the best and biggest. People will always see Spider-Man, Batman, and well-loved modern favorites with a hook like Deadpool 3 or GOTG 3. But shitty movies with the same story for C-List and lower characters? People are fed up being forced to eat shit anymore. It took awhile but that's how it works. The ground of public opinion shifts quickly and it is coming for the majority of both MCU and DC projects. Audiences are not that stupid. It's become a bunch of redundant crap and people are tuning it out. People are fed the fuck up.

You also have to remember that the largest demographic for these movies, those who grew up with them, were just entering college when Endgame opened, and between that and all the delays for their movies it’s kind of become a lameduck from their childhood. An MCU movie in 2023 is pretty much the same as a YA movie in 2017 - past its shelf life

[SpiderByte]

19 minutes ago, Bob Train said:

. If DCEU played it right, Blue Beetle would have been a $100m opener

Citation fucking needed on that one. It was an HBO Max original converted to theatrical, 100 OW was never locked by any means

[Bob Train]

Just now, SpiderByte said:

Citation fucking needed on that one. It was an HBO Max original converted to theatrical, 100 OW was never locked by any means

If DCEU actually made BvS and Justice League good movies, then DCEU would be on or close to MCU level. They didn't, and the results speak for themselves.

[SpiderByte]

8 minutes ago, TMP said:

You also have to remember that the largest demographic for these movies, those who grew up with them, were just entering college when Endgame opened, and between that and all the delays for their movies it’s kind of become a lameduck from their childhood. An MCU movie in 2023 is pretty much the same as a YA movie in 2017 - past its shelf life

Lmfaooo Doctor Strange 2 made nearly a billion last year. Jesus you guys are acting like after The Marvels Disney's gonna take Feige out back and shoot him.

 

I just will remember all of these conversations when Deadpool 3 releases one year (ish) from now.

[MysteryMovieMogul]

Just a reminder that Domestically, Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania is the 7th highest grossing film of 2023. While it may have made less than Ant-Man and the Wasp, it also may come out higher on the list of highest grossing films for the year domestically. Worldwide, it might even match.

 

The Marvels was never going to rise to the heights of the original, just as Wakanda Forever wasn't able to. For it's quality, Captain Marvel should have never made as much as it did. And with the SAG strike making it impossible to show off the three women interacting with one another, no one knows what to expect or if their chemistry will be any good. It's no surprise This movie is floundering a bit, especially now. Remember, both Barbie and Oppenheimer got to have their prime promotional periods.

 

Basically, it's impossible to say if MCU fatigue has hit or if theatrical entertainment is simply in a weird flux post-pandemic. Hell, we live in a world where the widely mocked Indiana Jones movie performed better here in America than the widely lauded Mission Impossible movie!

Edited October 30, 2023 by MysteryMovieMogul

[TMP]

8 minutes ago, SpiderByte said:

Lmfaooo Doctor Strange 2 made nearly a billion last year. Jesus you guys are acting like after The Marvels Disney's gonna take Feige out back and shoot him.

 

I just will remember all of these conversations when Deadpool 3 releases one year (ish) from now.

DP3 will do like $700m and we’ll have a cavalcade of WWW threads. Also Strange 2 was on the heels of the momentum of wandavision - the MCU has pretty much lost that momentum and it’s gonna take years to build that back up. Audiences grew up - I feel like this is something to celebrate?

[Bob Train]

1 minute ago, MysteryMovieMogul said:

Just a reminder that Domestically, Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania is the 7th highest grossing film of 2023. While it may have made less than Ant-Man and the Wasp, it also may come out higher on the list of highest grossing films for the year domestically. Worldwide, it might even match.

 

The Marvels was never going to rise to the heights of the original, just as Wakanda Forever wasn't able to. For it's quality, Captain Marvel should have never made as much as it did. And with the SAG strike making it impossible to show off the three women interacting with one another, no one knows what to expect or if their chemistry will be any good. It's no surprise This movie is floundering a bit, especially now. Remember, both Barbie and Oppenheimer got to have their prime promotional periods.

 

Basically, it's impossible to say if MCU fatigue has hit or if theatrical entertainment is simply in a weird flux post-pandemic. Hell, we live in a world where the widely mocked Indiana Jones movie performed better here in America than the widely lauded Mission Impossible movie!

CBM fatigue is real. None of the 5 live-action CBM sequels (Quantumania, Shazam 2, Gotg3, Marvels, Aqua2) will match their predecessors DOM. We have seen some many other sequels match/surpass their predecessors DOM this year (Creed 3, Scream 6, Wick 4, EDR, Transformers, Insidious etc.). Spider-Verse 2 stands alone as the only CBM sequel to beat it's predecessor DOM.

 

As for Indiana Jones beating MI7, that isn't too surprising. Every Indy movie adjusts to $450m+ DOM, it is the bigger IP stateside. On top of that, it had a much better release date, whereas MI7 chose perhaps the worst release date it could possibly have chosen.

[John Marston]

12 minutes ago, SpiderByte said:

Lmfaooo Doctor Strange 2 made nearly a billion last year. Jesus you guys are acting like after The Marvels Disney's gonna take Feige out back and shoot him.

 

I just will remember all of these conversations when Deadpool 3 releases one year (ish) from now.

 

and? You can’t rely on Deadpool. The fact is nobody gives a shit about the majority of new heroes being set up 

[SpiderByte]

2 minutes ago, TMP said:

Also Strange 2 was on the heels of the momentum of wandavision - the MCU has pretty much lost that momentum

A year and a half after? I don't think the momentum on just WandaVision was that strong. Especially when people were so insistent that Ms Marvel, a show that came...four weeks after Doctor Strange, was universally despised (by people on this board) because of Disney+

[John Marston]

15 minutes ago, MysteryMovieMogul said:

Just a reminder that Domestically, Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania is the 7th highest grossing film of 2023. While it may have made less than Ant-Man and the Wasp, it also may come out higher on the list of highest grossing films for the year domestically. Worldwide, it might even match.

 

The Marvels was never going to rise to the heights of the original, just as Wakanda Forever wasn't able to. For it's quality, Captain Marvel should have never made as much as it did. And with the SAG strike making it impossible to show off the three women interacting with one another, no one knows what to expect or if their chemistry will be any good. It's no surprise This movie is floundering a bit, especially now. Remember, both Barbie and Oppenheimer got to have their prime promotional periods.

 

Basically, it's impossible to say if MCU fatigue has hit or if theatrical entertainment is simply in a weird flux post-pandemic. Hell, we live in a world where the widely mocked Indiana Jones movie performed better here in America than the widely lauded Mission Impossible movie!

 

The Marvels isn’t just foundering “a bit”. It’s looking to be one of the biggest bombs of all time and have a record drop for a sequel 

 

 

while MI no doubt underperformed I Indiana Jones did far far worse. Are you forgetting the last installment Made 317 million in 2008?

Edited October 30, 2023 by John Marston

[HummingLemon496]

Just now, Bob Train said:

CBM fatigue is real. None of the 5 live-action CBM sequels (Quantumania, Shazam 2, Gotg3, Marvels, Aqua2) will match their predecessors DOM. We have seen some many other sequels match/surpass their predecessors DOM this year (Creed 3, Scream 6, Wick 4, EDR, Transformers, Insidious etc.). Spider-Verse 2 stands alone as the only CBM sequel to beat it's predecessor DOM.

 

As for Indiana Jones beating MI7, that isn't too surprising. Every Indy movie adjusts to $450m+ DOM, it is the bigger IP stateside. On top of that, it had a much better release date, whereas MI7 chose perhaps the worst release date it could possibly have chosen.

I find it interesting that the sequel to a $190M film will make more than the sequel to a $426M film and $335M film combined. And it's very possible for the sequel to a $375M film to make more than the sequel to a $1.148B film and a $1.128B film combined (might require Aquaman to go into sub-Black Adam territory but never bet in favor of the DCEU, you'll always lose).

[SpiderByte]

1 minute ago, John Marston said:

 

and? You can’t rely on Deadpool. The fact is nobody gives a shit about the majority of new heroes being set up 

Well they aren't gonna just instantly cancel Fantastic Four and Blade to just make Iron Man 4 with a magically alive Tony, so people who want just a full reboot are out of luck.

[Bob Train]

1 minute ago, SpiderByte said:

A year and a half after? I don't think the momentum on just WandaVision was that strong. Especially when people were so insistent that Ms Marvel, a show that came...four weeks after Doctor Strange, was universally despised (by people on this board) because of Disney+

Even setting aside Wandavision, Strange 2 was massively helped by being teased in the post-credit scene of an $800m DOM box office goliath. It was Strange's first appearance after being a major significant character in NWH. And it was also boosted due to the novelty of the Fox-verse cameos/nostalgia.

[John Marston]

2 minutes ago, SpiderByte said:

Well they aren't gonna just instantly cancel Fantastic Four and Blade to just make Iron Man 4 with a magically alive Tony, so people who want just a full reboot are out of luck.

 

Marvel clearly have no clue how to get the FF and Blade movies off the ground 

[Bob Train]

2 minutes ago, SpiderByte said:

Well they aren't gonna just instantly cancel Fantastic Four and Blade to just make Iron Man 4 with a magically alive Tony, so people who want just a full reboot are out of luck.

They should. Maybe then they would have movie locked for $1b. Spider-Man 4 is the only movie I see releasing in the next 3 years locked for $1b (Kang Dynasty is the next best candidate, but it likely gets delayed due to the dual strikes)

[BOfficeStats]

19 minutes ago, TMP said:

You also have to remember that the largest demographic for these movies, those who grew up with them, were just entering college when Endgame opened, and between that and all the delays for their movies it’s kind of become a lameduck from their childhood. An MCU movie in 2023 is pretty much the same as a YA movie in 2017 - past its shelf life

This theory doesn't make any sense.  MCU films didn't have an uber young audience back in 2012 when The Avengers came out and made a ton of money (50%/50% split over/under 25 years old).  Even Spider-Man: Homecoming only skewed 57% under 25 years old.  

 

The problem with the MCU right now is that *all demographics* are losing interest.  

[SpiderByte]

1 minute ago, Bob Train said:

They should. Maybe then they would have movie locked for $1b. Spider-Man 4 is the only movie I see releasing in the next 3 years locked for $1b (Kang Dynasty is the next best candidate, but it likely gets delayed due to the dual strikes)

You understand that franchises don't need a billion dollar hit every year to continue to exist, right? The MCU will not hard reboot so long as Feiges is there. Full stop. Entertaining otherwise is just plain stupid.

[John Marston]

1 minute ago, SpiderByte said:

You understand that franchises don't need a billion dollar hit every year to continue to exist, right? The MCU will not hard reboot so long as Feiges is there. Full stop. Entertaining otherwise is just plain stupid.

 

you realize you have to make a profit though right? A lot of upcoming  projects  may not do that 

[SpiderByte]

1 minute ago, BOfficeStats said:

This theory doesn't make any sense.  MCU films didn't have an uber young audience back in 2012 when The Avengers came out and made a ton of money (50%/50% split over/under 25 years old).  Even Spider-Man: Homecoming only skewed 57% under 25 years old.  

 

The problem with the MCU right now is that *all demographics* are losing interest.  

Yeah the MCU is very four quadrant. But the problems the MCU has are ones it can fix, and have already taken significant steps to fixing under Iger such as spacing out releases (I think the all at once binge model Echo and What If are using are gonna help that, so that there's less stepping on other shows toes like Obi Wan and Ms Marvel). DCs issues ultimately stem from the parent company constantly getting sold every few years.

[WorkingonaName]

MOM killed the MCU