The Marvels | November 10, 2023 | Abandon All Hope Ye Who Enter

[Krissykins]

1 hour ago, TwoMisfits said:

Speaking of advertising, Disney has gone all in on this movie.  Every football game, every baseball game, every Hulu show, and every theatrical movie from the last month has shown me this trailer - over and over again.  They are spending a ton in P&A to try to save it.  We'll see if it works.

Ah I just came here to say the exact opposite. 
 

I’ve only had the trailer once and all the billboards outside here are for the October streaming horror lineups (Prime, Now etc). I don’t watch sports and they own Hulu so I’d say that’s free for them. 
 

Maybe things will change next week, but you wouldn’t know it was coming out here. (UK). 

Edited October 30, 2023 by Krissykins

[SpiderByte]

5 minutes ago, John Marston said:

 

I think Batgirling everything except for Deadpool 3, Cap 4, and FF might be the only way. Thunderbolts maybe can stay because it does have a rising star with Florence Pugh but I’d say that’s not guaranteed to be a hit at all 

Lmfao Zero percent chance that will happen. How on earth do you think cancelling everything they've already filmed is going to improve momentum?

 

I don't know why people act like the Batgirl situation is a strategy that worked instead of something that everyone except the execs hated.

Edited October 30, 2023 by SpiderByte

[Bob Train]

35 minutes ago, SpiderByte said:

All this doomposting will, again, be hysterical of this movies reviews end up being decent. But jeez guys, a funeral for the entire studio is a little much. There's nothing that can't be fixed and they've announced specific plans on how they plan to do it.

Disney knows they are sitting on a dud. That's the reason why reviews are embargoed until 2 days before release. Guardians 3 reviews were released about a week before coming out. Wakanda Forever released them 3 days before release despite rock-solid presales.

 

They are waving the white flag here.

[SpiderByte]

8 minutes ago, YM! said:

Is it crazy to say that it's true that the MCU franchise isn't dead and that Marvel still has viable use as a whole (like Spider-Man or not, there's still clear affection for Doctor Strange, Black Panther, Guardians and probably OGs like Thor and Hulk - they also have X-Men and F4 in the roster) AND that the MCU burned a lot of goodwill these past few years (Quantumania is kind of comparable to the MCU’s JL and The Marvels is about to have drop similar to or more harsh than Shazam 2) and is quite possible if the next few movies don't hit (like if Deadpool, F4 and Kang don't hit - ie Quantumania/Eternals like reception), we could be facing a harder reboot? Is there no room for a middle ground?

I don't think a hard reboot is in the cards. Any Secret Wars reboot will likely be about being able to free up things Marvel doesn't want the baggage of (Inhumans, Iron Fist) and being able to incorporate other things (mutants, possibly outright the Fox ones), and maybe some recastings. But not like "The Avengers never existed" or "Tony Starks recast and has a new origin again", just like "hey now Luke Cage is gonna be someone new don't worry about it"

[boxoff53]

9 minutes ago, Krissykins said:

Ah I just came here to say the exact opposite. 
 

I’ve only had the trailer once and all the billboards outside here are for the October streaming horror lineups (Prime, Now etc). I don’t watch sports and they own Hulu so I’d say that’s free for them. 
 

Maybe things will change next week, but you wouldn’t know it was coming out here. (UK). 

It seems from other projects that trying to play the representation game doesn't really work as well in other countries,  so this would track with my suspicion that they are going for a very specifically targeted ad push dependent on demographics, based on data mining. Rather than trying to get the word out as wide as possible,  inundate particular areas and demos. Focus on areas with high percentage of women and online spaces that women occupy more. Idk what those spaces are but I know I'm not in them.  Hence never really seeing much advertising for the movie. 

Edited October 30, 2023 by boxoff53

[SpiderByte]

2 minutes ago, Bob Train said:

Wakanda Forever released them 3 days before release despite rock-solid presales

I don't see how this is a point in your favor. An embargo three days out is confidence, but two days is doomed and surrendering?

[boxoff53]

People talking about the review embargo miss very crucial distinction. The critic embargo lift is meaningless, that's always right before release.  What is a red flag is the social media embargo.  It's very unusual for studios trying to target geeks to tell their most fervent fans to stay quiet until a couple days before release. You have screenings for the movie with the group most likely to eat up whatever slop you give them, and you won't use that for advertising? Odd.

Edited October 30, 2023 by boxoff53

[YM!]

13 minutes ago, SpiderByte said:

I don't think a hard reboot is in the cards. Any Secret Wars reboot will likely be about being able to free up things Marvel doesn't want the baggage of (Inhumans, Iron Fist) and being able to incorporate other things (mutants, possibly outright the Fox ones), and maybe some recastings. But not like "The Avengers never existed" or "Tony Starks recast and has a new origin again", just like "hey now Luke Cage is gonna be someone new don't worry about it"

I think the plan is basically what you're saying. Soft reboot to snip out anything they don't like and fix things they want, and a recast or two (looking at either new T’Challa be it the son due to timey-wimey bullshit or multiverse, and maybe another Cap - totally thinking they'll do the two Spider-Man approach with Cap) but I don't find it implausible to take the Gunn DCU route if Deadpool 3 ends up being divisive (there is most definitely a part of Feige and mcu fans have this mindset that they can and should do better than Fox did due to greater appreciation, if that doesn't work I can see it shaking Feige), Fantastic Four also ends up being divisive (the Fox angle and they're likely to be a new face of the MCU), and most importantly if Kang Dynasty doesn't go well.

 

However, it would take those missteps. Marvels, Cap 4, Thunderbolts and Blade can bomb but they're not necessarily killing blows like the 3 I mentioned, and if they're liked - Feige will find a way to incorporate them further. Tbh I think Cap 4 should do around 500-600 if good because I think Hulk stuff is a sell and enough people like the brand for Cap even if it's not Evans, and I stand by FalCap being a better choice than BuckyCap because Mackie actually has charisma unlike Stan.

Edited October 30, 2023 by YM!

[filmlover]

5 minutes ago, boxoff53 said:

People talking about the review embargo miss very crucial distinction. The critic embargo lift is meaningless, that's always right before release.  What is a red flag is the social media embargo.  It's very unusual for studios trying to target geeks to tell their most fervent fans to stay quiet until a couple days before release. You have screenings for the movie with the group most likely to eat up whatever slop you give them, and you won't use that for advertising? Odd.

I'm pretty sure the social media embargo is because 11/7 is their last hope to have the premiere with Larson, etc. attending. If the strike ends tomorrow, expect the cast to be booked for talk shows through next week ASAP.

[boxoff53]

6 minutes ago, filmlover said:

I'm pretty sure the social media embargo is because 11/7 is their last hope to have the premiere with Larson, etc. attending. If the strike ends tomorrow, expect the cast to be booked for talk shows through next week ASAP.

I do not understand how those two things are connected.  Social media reactions are almost always about a week earlier than critic reviews, and they are almost always hyperbolic in their positivity. So much that seeing anything slightly negative in them is a sign that reception will be even worse for normal people. 

[PlatnumRoyce]

Quote

"I think superhero fatigue absolutely exists...The biggest difference from the other MCU movies to date is that it’s really wacky, and silly," DaCosta teases. "The worlds we go to in this movie are worlds unlike others you’ve seen in the MCU. Bright worlds that you haven’t seen before."

3 Marvel tv spots released last week

 

• The villain is an heir to Thanos who wants to destroy everything
• Captain Marvel is invincible but the villain is DC's Parasite/Peter Patrelli's Dad from Heroes. "Cpt Marvel. We need you to...save the world"
• Carol Danvers - Renegade, hero, Avenger. "Carol Danvers is an awesome character"

PLUS TV SPOT from 2 weeks before 

• Captain Marvel is an Avenger who was key to defeating Thanos

 

there were another cluster of these

 

These are not marketing pitches remotely on the same page (though the final main trailer is more in keeping with DiCosta's statement. I suspect social media embargo is late in part because they're trying to do, if not a bait and switch, at least an attempt to sell the film as a generic CM2 to audiences that aren't clicking with this film's initially intended lighthearted pitch. edit: OTOH I like the other user's suggestion that social media embargo was delayed to get a final pitch from the film's actors. 

 

30 minutes ago, SpiderByte said:

I don't think a hard reboot is in the cards. Any Secret Wars reboot will likely be about being able to free up things Marvel doesn't want the baggage of (Inhumans, Iron Fist) and being able to incorporate other things (mutants, possibly outright the Fox ones), and maybe some recastings. But not like "The Avengers never existed" or "Tony Starks recast and has a new origin again", just like "hey now Luke Cage is gonna be someone new don't worry about it"

Yeah, this is right. That MCU book (which I've now completely read) spotlighted an anecdote about Kevin Fiege being aghast that sony would hard reboot Raimi's films into TASM. Even though they re-rebooted it, I think your read is correct. My only quibble is that I'm also pretty sure Marvel's already deemed MarvelTV non-canonical unless explicitly reintroduced. 

Edited October 30, 2023 by PlatnumRoyce

[filmlover]

10 minutes ago, boxoff53 said:

I do not understand how those two things are connected.  Social media reactions are almost always about a week earlier than critic reviews, and they are almost always hyperbolic in their positivity. So much that seeing anything slightly negative in them is a sign that reception will be even worse for normal people. 

No previous Marvel movie has had their marketing hobbled the way this has. Studios are starting to sweat seeing the soft tracking numbers for their holiday movies and realizing how valuable to film promotion/awareness the stars really are.

[John Marston]

2 minutes ago, filmlover said:

No previous Marvel movie has had their marketing hobbled the way this has. Studios are starting to sweat seeing the soft tracking numbers for their holiday movies and realizing how valuable to film promotion/awareness the stars really are.

this is a Marvel movie. An established brand. Seeing one of the actors appear on some shitty comedians show is not going to cause someone to suddenly decide to watch this 

 

 

Iman Vellani was everywhere promoting Ms Marvel, and nobody cared 

Edited October 30, 2023 by John Marston

[SpiderByte]

18 minutes ago, filmlover said:

I'm pretty sure the social media embargo is because 11/7 is their last hope to have the premiere with Larson, etc. attending. If the strike ends tomorrow, expect the cast to be booked for talk shows through next week ASAP.

Yep. Standard Marvel MO is social media night of premiere and reviews somewhere between the next day and next week after. This isn't like FNAF where the embargo is the day of (and because of the weird digital move, day after) release. Plus, Blue Beetle was also down to the wire and was mostly positively received.

[SpiderByte]

1 minute ago, John Marston said:

this is a Marvel movie. An established brand. Seeing one of the actors appear on some shitty comedians show is not going to cause someone to suddenly decide to watch this 

Yes, those comedy talk shows or SNL hostings and promo tour stuff do matter. Every little bit adds up. Do you just fundamentally not understand what the strike is about? Why having actors available to promote their work matters? Why do you think Barbie and Oppenheimer rushed to film press junkets right before their releases, and why those movies are the biggest hits since the strike began?

[John Marston]

1 minute ago, SpiderByte said:

Yes, those comedy talk shows or SNL hostings and promo tour stuff do matter. Every little bit adds up. Do you just fundamentally not understand what the strike is about? Why having actors available to promote their work matters? Why do you think Barbie and Oppenheimer rushed to film press junkets right before their releases, and why those movies are the biggest hits since the strike began?

yes. I’m sure the reason the movie is dropping to 350m from a 1.2 billion original is because Brie Larson didn’t go on Hot Ones or Jimmy Fallon 

Edited October 30, 2023 by John Marston

[SpiderByte]

1 minute ago, John Marston said:

yes. I’m sure the reason the movie is dropping to 350m from a 1.2 billion original is because Brie Larson didn’t go on Hot Ones or Jimmy Fallon 

It's certainly a factor that not being able to promote the movie hurts the movies box office, yes.

Edited October 30, 2023 by SpiderByte

[Firepower]

I can't wait to see another round of executions inside Disney after this one bombs hard.

[emoviefan]

12 minutes ago, SpiderByte said:

It's certainly a factor that not being able to promote the movie hurts the movies box office, yes.

Man i got to give you props. The fact you hang in there countering all the idiocy on this thread. I just threw my hands a long time ago. Keep it up. 

[Maggie]

5 minutes ago, Firepower said:

I can't wait to see another round of executions inside Disney after this one bombs hard.

Why are people seemingly so happy about the prospect of this bombing? Yes, there's some cbm fatigue, but it's not the end of Marvel. There's not gonna be many Billion dollar movies as before, but why so happy a franchise that gave us so many good things is on a downward spiral? Marvel helped theaters in the last 10 plus years. I really don't see what could replace it that it gives theaters so many billion and other successful movies