The Marvels | November 10, 2023 | Abandon All Hope Ye Who Enter

[Sckathian]

1 minute ago, PlatnumRoyce said:

Shang-Chi really did very well despite having terrible covid timing but that still means not a massive number of people saw Shang-Chi in theaters and he's been completely absent from later MCU films (and tv). There's a real chance Marvel just squanders most of the upside they gained from their only real new hit. 

This is what I number one most don’t understand about the current MCU. 
 

Where is Shang Chi 2? It ends on a cliffhanger.

Where is Doctor Strange 3? It ends on a cliffhanger.

Why is there not s film called Captain Marvel 2?

 

Like build on your shit. No one reads the comics. Literally less than 5% (and I am being extremely fair) reads the comics and knows who the illumanti are.

[Mojoguy]

1 minute ago, PlatnumRoyce said:

Shang-Chi really did very well despite having terrible covid timing but that still means not a massive number of people saw Shang-Chi in theaters and he's been completely absent from later MCU films (and tv). There's a real chance Marvel just squanders most of the upside they gained from their only real new hit. 

Simu Liu being in Barbie boosted Barbie by bringing in sone MCU fans, and the movie helped his career.

[ZeroHour]

1 hour ago, PlatnumRoyce said:

 

For years, Disney's has basically stopped making live action films aimed at young men that aren't part of Marvel or Star Wars (even after acquiring Fox). Separate from if it's going to end is if Disney starts to attempt to diversify its output away from Marvel/Wars.

 

14 minutes ago, PlatnumRoyce said:

There were trying and mostly failing to make films aimed at that demo (at least post-PotC) but they were trying. The high profile failures like Tomorrowland's Lone Ranger: John Carter, the Prince of Persia (alongside soft performances of successes like Tron) are explicitly cited by reputable sources as inspiring Disney's IP binge. Will we see a slight retvrn to that era?

I mean Avatar, of course. And then next year they have both Planet of the Apes and a new Alien. Prey should've gone to theaters. Fair to say they are using Fox properties to target young men. They only finished buying the company in 2019, and with the pandemic, I don't think it's too surprising that we're only now starting to see some of those big properties get leveraged. Certainly I don't see any reason to believe they would return to the era of making big budget flops based on super obscure IP to target young men. Like, why would they make a Zorro movie or whatever when they can do Blade instead?

[TheFlatLannister]

11 minutes ago, SpiderByte said:

That logic of killing the "fluff" doesn't hold though. Quantumania, the movie that first introduced Kang to the films, didn't do as well as Guardians, which had almost nothing to do with the multiverse aside from Gamora. So multiverse plot doesn't automatically guarantee a hit, even if most of it has been well received outside Quantumania.

 

I think Igers plan is correct: space things out more, refocus the TV side on more traditional format shows and not miniseries. I also think Marvel Studios non-MCU projects like the Spider-Man and X-Men animated series will help with that.

If they do develop MCU tv series it should be completely detached from the overreaching arc (stuff like spectacular Spider-Man season 3, DareDevil, X-men 97).

 

Requiring your audience to watch the TV shows to understand the movies is too much like homework. 

[Ken]

This already has more pages than the Wakanda Forever thread from last year?!

 

This is why I'm too scared to talk to you...

[DInky]

4 minutes ago, Sckathian said:

This is what I number one most don’t understand about the current MCU. 
 

Where is Shang Chi 2? It ends on a cliffhanger.

Where is Doctor Strange 3? It ends on a cliffhanger.

Why is there not s film called Captain Marvel 2?

 

Like build on your shit. No one reads the comics. Literally less than 5% (and I am being extremely fair) reads the comics and knows who the illumanti are.

 

Same thing with the TV side. WandaVision and Multiverse of Madness should have been followed by Visionquest and The Childrn's Crusade. They might still happen but will anyone care in another 3 years?

[SpiderByte]

3 minutes ago, TheFlatLannister said:

If they do develop MCU tv series it should be completely detached from the overreaching arc (stuff like spectacular Spider-Man season 3, DareDevil, X-men 97).

That makes sense, though I don't think they'll be entirely disconnected. Daredevil reportedly is (or was) directly tied to the plot of Spidey 4.

[SpiderByte]

11 minutes ago, Sckathian said:

Where is Shang Chi 2? It ends on a cliffhanger.

Where is Doctor Strange 3? It ends on a cliffhanger.

Shang-Chi 2 was greenlit shortly after the first one and...not really. It ends on a sequel hook but it's absolutely not a cliffhanger the way say Infinity War was.

 

Strange 3 is reportedly one of the "untitled" phase 6 dates. Will that change due to the strike? No idea. But also those movies released 2 and 1 year ago, respectively. It was 6 years (would have been 5 without COVID) for Strange to get it's first sequel.

Edited October 30, 2023 by SpiderByte

[Liiviig 1998]

59 minutes ago, TheFlatLannister said:

I’m still not sure why people are using The Marvels as a benchmark for “is the MCU dead”. The writing has been on the wall for months now. If Deadpool is well received and does less than both previous installments, then we can start declaring the death of the MCU. 

Deadpool 3 feels could be in the  GOTG 3 zone.

 

Then a possible scenario were   with thunderbolts and Cap 4 doing dissapointing numbers  or flopping.

 

Deadpool 3 will probably be a needed  box office win   like GOTG 3

 

but the real tests for MCU will be thunderbolts/Cap 4. And according to leaks both this movies could have some major points of connectivity . If they both suck even with Deadpool doing well MCU will still be in a ditch.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[GambitPool]

1 hour ago, TheFlatLannister said:

If I’m Feige I would start canceling all the fluff MCU projects: which include all the Disney+ series. Change Loki season 3 to a movie with a brief recap of season 1 and 2 (also add Hemsworth to attract more GA)

 

Replace the fluff MCU projects with movies that actually build up to Kang (the exclusion being spidey since he’s an IP on his own)  

Preach. This is what I said a few pages back. Audiences have limited time and money now. They don't want to see projects that have nothing to do with the grand picture. 

 

Edit: To add, what are projects like Echo, Armor Wars, IronHeart, Agatha, Wonder Man, even Thunderbolts adding to this saga? Kang Dynasty/Secret Wars is the end goal. What are those stories doing to lead to that? They need to brainstorm again. We should not have 5 different plots leading to 5 different endpoints. Audiences are trained and comfortable with Avengers films as bookmarks. Don't tell them Avengers films aren't even finales anymore. They don't want multiple finale type films because that's overwhelming. 

 

When they announced Agatha, based off her popularity, I knew they were losing focus. 

Edited October 30, 2023 by GambitPool

[DInky]

10 minutes ago, SpiderByte said:

Shang-Chi 2 was greenlit shortly after the first one and...not really. It ends on a sequel hook but it's absolutely not a cliffhanger the way say Infinity War was.

 

Strange 3 is reportedly one of the "untitled" phase 6 dates. Will that change due to the strike? No idea. But also those movies released 2 and 1 year ago, respectively. It was 6 years (would have been 5 without COVID) for Strange to get it's first sequel.

 

Yeah but when is it actually going to happen? Destin Daniel Cretton is directing Kang Dynasty and he won't be able to squeeze in Shang-Chi 2 before that. The earliest we can expect to see a sequel is 2028, seven years after the original.

[Sckathian]

 

13 minutes ago, SpiderByte said:

Shang-Chi 2 was greenlit shortly after the first one and...not really. It ends on a sequel hook but it's absolutely not a cliffhanger the way say Infinity War was.

 

Strange 3 is reportedly one of the "untitled" phase 6 dates. Will that change due to the strike? No idea. But also those movies released 2 and 1 year ago, respectively. It was 6 years (would have been 5 without COVID) for Strange to get it's first sequel.

 

Strange is a lead in Avengers and Spider-Man. So the gap is not that odd. The cliffhangers are sequel bait but the point in sequel bait is to see what happens.
 

if MCU is going to be pre announcing their film slates they should probably include their planned sequels to keep people caring. Right now there is zero sign these threads will be built on until the next Avengers.

 

Compare to phase 1-3 and the three leads have a major title every two years including Avengers films. 

[SpiderByte]

16 minutes ago, Sckathian said:

Right now there is zero sign these threads will be built on until the next Avengers.

I mean Occam's razor: those may have been setups for Kang Dynasty.

[Firepower]

3 hours ago, Maggie said:

Why are people seemingly so happy about the prospect of this bombing? Yes, there's some cbm fatigue, but it's not the end of Marvel. There's not gonna be many Billion dollar movies as before, but why so happy a franchise that gave us so many good things is on a downward spiral? Marvel helped theaters in the last 10 plus years. I really don't see what could replace it that it gives theaters so many billion and other successful movies

Because this movie bombing hard is a good thing for the industry, maybe they'll finally start putting an actual effort into their productions instead of taking it for granted and expecting zombie fan base to eat it up no matter quality. And "gave us so many good things" is quite an exaggeration, I liked only a couple of those movies, so I don't really care one way or the other, I stopped watching this stuff years ago.

Video-game adaptations are on the roll, sounds like the upcoming replacement to me.

Edited October 30, 2023 by Firepower

[Shindaya]

On 10/28/2023 at 9:05 PM, BoxOfficeZ said:

 

I'm still around. I've just been too busy with a production to go see screenings this month. Later this winter though I'll have a bunch of screenings. 

 

Funny thing was I had an opportunity to see Marvels in early Spring but it was unfinished and I had a family issues so timing was off. 

 

yeah I saw it over the summer unfinished and i was kind of just wishing i had waited till it was complete because it was ROUGH to get through. If it was something like Captain America 2 or Black Widow it wouldnt have mattered because those weren't as VFX-reliant as the Marvels was 

[SpiderByte]

1 hour ago, Liiviig 1998 said:

And according to leaks both this movies could have some major points of connectivity

Not anymore, that got changed with the new writer on Thunderbolts. Idk if Ford is still in both though.

[DInky]

I think it's time for Feige to retire so that the true savior can take over the MCU.

 

[Bob Train]

2 hours ago, TheFlatLannister said:

Love and Thunder $750M w/o China

MoM $955M w/o China

Wakanda Forever $850M

GOTG3 $840M 

 

yet somehow an Avengers movie with spidey, strange, Thor and many more could easily go sub $1B. Some people on this forum are just trolling 

I mean, no one knows if CBMs will still be the cultural obsession in 2027-2028 when Kang Dynasty comes out. On top of that it's probably gonna suck given Loveness is writing it. However, due to Spider-Man it can probably do over $1b but less than Ultron.

[DInky]

I think losing Majors (Disney already removed his upcoming movie from their release schedule) will hurt The Kang Dynasty. They've now used two seasons of Loki and Quantumania to build up the character and it's not even going to be the same actor in the Avengers movie.

Edited October 30, 2023 by DInky

[PlatnumRoyce]

6 minutes ago, DInky said:

I think losing Majors (Disney already removed his upcoming movie from their release schedule) will hurt The Kang Dynasty. They've now used two seasons of Loki and Quantumania to build up the character and it's not even going to be the same actor in the Avengers movie.

edit: you mean that awards film. I wouldn't take that to mean Majors is gone. We have years until Kang Dynasty and if they were done with Majors they could have easily just dumped the film this year instead of holding onto it. I suspect it's all contingent on the trial.

Edited October 30, 2023 by PlatnumRoyce