The Marvels | November 10, 2023 | Abandon All Hope Ye Who Enter

[SpiderByte]

1 minute ago, ThomasNicole said:

Marvel just had a tremendous bomb on their hands with Quantumania and a stablished franchise like GOTG is having awful presales, idk why you´re so shocked that people are questioning the potential of this one when MCU as a whole is showing strong signs of disconection with the audience because of many poorly received movies and TV shows for 3 years in a row

 

Yeah people get way ahead of themselves proclaiming things without being sure, but when the franchise is build as a whole is expected that a few ´´episodes´´ can impact other ones in a negative way, it´s just obvious tbh

You don't need to look far back to see people randomly assuming this is a bomb long before Quantumania reviews or Guardians presales.

[SpiderByte]

2 minutes ago, YM! said:

Dude, this literally happens to DC movies and a lot of other tentpoles too. It’s not just Marvel.

Man nobody has been like "obviously Joker 2 will only make half the first one". Because that would be crazy since nothing of that movie has been shown yet.

[JustLurking]

So is this getting trailer on tuesday or not? I'm trying to figure out if this is actual news or what but all people seem to be talking about is whether this will bomb or not.

[TwoMisfits]

4 minutes ago, SpiderByte said:

You don't need to look far back to see people randomly assuming this is a bomb long before Quantumania reviews or Guardians presales.

 

Yeah, the Ms. Marvel ending scene.  If that's the movie conceit, I've said it before and I'll say it again - that was a horrible plan.  Body swapping these character concepts is either gonna be terribly unfunny or horribly out of character, ticking off fans.  Plus requiring viewing of the D+ show to follow the movie is, and has always been, a bad idea...

 

This is all separate from Phase 4/5 fatigue and overall superhero fatigue.  All of that is going against this movie, so it won't have a prayer of making Capt Marvel 1 numbers.  All we're debating at this point is how big the drop.

 

[John Marston]

1 hour ago, SpiderByte said:

By that logic Ant-Man and the Wasp would have benefited more since it came out even closer to Infinity War. It just doesn't track that a 3 second logo shot affected box office that much.

 

 

 

 

Ant-Man wasn't teased a potential savior at the end of Infinity War. The Ant-Man sequel wasn't released a little more than a month before Endgame and you didn't have Feige hyping the character up as the strongest Marvel character and potential new  leader of the Avengers

 

Is Captain Marvel more powerful than Thanos? Kevin Feige has an answer | Entertainment News,The Indian Express

[John Marston]

Spoiler

based on the leaks this sounds like another Thor Love and Thunder. A goofy movie that doesn't really add much to the overall storyline

 

 

 

 

 

 

[YM!]

13 minutes ago, SpiderByte said:

Man nobody has been like "obviously Joker 2 will only make half the first one". Because that would be crazy since nothing of that movie has been shown yet.

I think Joker 2 will be dropping about the same as these two because the first hit a zeitgeist and I’m not sure the musical angle will be a sell. This one needs to make up for the lackluster reception of the majority of Phase 4-5 as we’re seeing with Guardians 3, a well-liked predecessor might not be able to help lose of brand faith (but if Guardians is great and the next few shows get strong reception throughout I would feel more positive.) as well as having China not as strong as it used to be.

 

250-300/600-800m is my range for both. 

Edited April 9, 2023 by YM!

[YM!]

2 minutes ago, John Marston said:

  Reveal hidden contents

based on the leaks this sounds like another Thor Love and Thunder. A goofy movie that doesn't really add much to the overall storyline

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don’t think goofiness or even not adding anything is the cause of concern, as it will come down to quality at the end of the day. If it gets Shang-Chi/No Way Home/Wakanda reception from the GA, there is no worry. 

[John Marston]

1 minute ago, YM! said:

I don’t think goofiness or even not adding anything is the cause of concern, as it will come down to quality at the end of the day. If it gets Shang-Chi/No Way Home/Wakanda reception from the GA, there is no worry. 

 

Wakanda Forever dropped nearly 500m from the first worldwide and that was with 5 weeks of no competition 

[YM!]

11 minutes ago, JustLurking said:

So is this getting trailer on tuesday or not? I'm trying to figure out if this is actual news or what but all people seem to be talking about is whether this will bomb or not.

Yes. This Tuesday according to RPK.

[YM!]

2 minutes ago, John Marston said:

 

Wakanda Forever dropped nearly 500m from the first worldwide and that was with 5 weeks of no competition 

Because the lead died, silly. How much would an Iron Man 4 do if RDJ died and Rhodey was his replacement? Or a Spider-Man 4 in which Zendaya was the lead after Tom Holland dying?

 

Not to mention the first was kind of a zeitgeist in that of itself, it was going to drop regardless.

Edited April 9, 2023 by YM!

[Maggie]

I think this will surprise people and NOT flop. It will drop from the first one, but it will still make good money.  The first one was very enjoyable. It all comes down to quality.

[John Marston]

4 minutes ago, YM! said:

Because the lead died, silly. How much would an Iron Man 4 do if RDJ died and Rhodey was his replacement? Or a Spider-Man 4 in which Zendaya was the lead after Tom Holland dying?

 

Not to mention the first was kind of a zeitgeist in that of itself, it was going to drop regardless.

 

And there was a huge intrigue going on about now they were going to deal with that for the movie and how the movie was a tribute to Chadwick Boseman. So that should have helped the box office. Most people were still expecting a billion at least 

Edited April 9, 2023 by John Marston

[Ipickthiswhiterose]

17 minutes ago, SpiderByte said:

Man nobody has been like "obviously Joker 2 will only make half the first one". Because that would be crazy since nothing of that movie has been shown yet.

 

It would be absolutely astonishing if Joker 2 makes anything like the first one regardless of its quality.

 

It would be absolutely astonishing if CM2/TM makes anything like the first one regardless of its quality.

 

Joker relied less on China for its first success, which is in its favour. But it was even more of a specific zeitgeist moment than the MCU was.

[YM!]

2 minutes ago, John Marston said:

 

And there was a huge intrigue going on about now they were going to deal with that for the movie and how the movie was a tribute to Chadwick Boseman. So that should have helped the box office. Most people were still expecting a billion at least 

Ik I was too but perhaps Chadwick’s loss was too big a hurdle to clear. That’s the thing with box office, there’s a lot of variables involved.

[Ipickthiswhiterose]

11 minutes ago, John Marston said:

 

Wakanda Forever dropped nearly 500m from the first worldwide and that was with 5 weeks of no competition 

 

 

C'mon now.

 

Black Panther was a completely unique zeitgeist movie. There was no way, Boseman or no Boseman of coming close to replicating its success. It made 700 freaking million dollars domestic.

 

The 850m haul was the bottom end of a 850-950 par. It wasn't a disappointment, not even vaguely. Neither was MoM. TL&T was and AMQ was a big ol disaster.

 

Expecting BP2 to do anything like BP is like expecting Joker 2 to do Joker numbers or Jaws 2 to do Jaws numbers. They can be way down and still be a big success.

 

I mean Jeez Godfather 2 made half of what the Godfather did 2 years after Godfather was a zeitgeist juggernaut. Did that mean Godfather 2 was a bust? 

Edited April 9, 2023 by Ipickthiswhiterose

[Maggie]

Why do i get the feeling that this movie attracts more vitriol than usual?  We know Marvel is on thin ice lately, but the hate for this movie is kinda insane

Edited April 9, 2023 by Maggie

[Ipickthiswhiterose]

3 minutes ago, Maggie said:

Why do i get the feeling that this movie attracts more vitriol than usual?  We know Marvel is on thin ice lately, but the hate for this movie is kinda insane

 

 

There's a long and detailed answer to this. And giving it fully would take hours.

 

The shortest I can manage is that there is an overwhelming number of Millenial and (and younger Gen x and maybe older Gen z) men who still cannot unlock the dissonance of their overwhelming cultural victory and dominance for the kind of properties they like, with the fact that during their youth of the 80s and 90s they were made to feel ruthlessly ashamed of those properties by the popular kids. 

 

Thus they manage to combine being the cheerleaders for the biggest corporate entertainment juggernauts in the world having almost every whim catered to in terms of the things they like being made into their dream movies, with somehow a simultaneous underdog mentality. 

 

It's a weird irreconcilable circle. But also a dangerous one culturally because the last thing that's good for any group is that they simultaneously have loads and loads of power, but also have a massive victim mentality.

 

And Brie Larson reminds them of the popular girl. 

[JustLurking]

16 minutes ago, Ipickthiswhiterose said:

 

 

C'mon now.

 

Black Panther was a completely unique zeitgeist movie. There was no way, Boseman or no Boseman of coming close to replicating its success. It made 700 freaking million dollars domestic.

 

The 850m haul was the bottom end of a 850-950 par. It wasn't a disappointment, not even vaguely. Neither was MoM. TL&T was and AMQ was a big ol disaster.

 

Expecting BP2 to do anything like BP is like expecting Joker 2 to do Joker numbers or Jaws 2 to do Jaws numbers. They can be way down and still be a big success.

 

I mean Jeez Godfather 2 made half of what the Godfather did 2 years after Godfather was a zeitgeist juggernaut. Did that mean Godfather 2 was a bust? 

Godfather 2 is kind of out of place since it comes from an era where sequels declining from the first one was really common. The Marvels disappointing or not will depend on how much it makes, I think pretty much no one expects it to match captain marvel but if it can stay in the 800s it should be looked upon positively. If it does similarly to quantumania that would be pretty terrible.

 

GOTG3 disappointing so much PS wise is a worrying sign for sure but let's see how The Marvels does before saying it's a bomb.

Edited April 9, 2023 by JustLurking

[SpiderByte]

29 minutes ago, John Marston said:

 

And there was a huge intrigue going on about now they were going to deal with that for the movie and how the movie was a tribute to Chadwick Boseman. So that should have helped the box office. Most people were still expecting a billion at least 

Even for you it's a huge reach to say Chadwick Bosemans death was somehow a draw for Black Panther and not a setback.