The Flash | June 16 2023 | Ezra Miller, Michael Keaton | We’re stoping the count at a Nice 69% RT (it’s 72% For Real) | Please Remember that Your Enjoyment Of The Film is Not Based On Others Opinions And To Be Nice To Each Other

[Emporio]

1 minute ago, Speedorito said:

Every time a DC movie does poorly (especially recently) people always play the blame game. “It’s because of Snyder, it’s because of the MCU and its fanboys, the critics are biased, etc.”

 

Maybe the movies just…aren’t very good or appealing to anyone who isn’t a massive DC fan? Obviously Snyder did nearly irreparable damage (people still make Martha jokes) but they’ve had success with movies like Wonder Woman and Aquaman. WB is just unable to replicate that for whatever reason.

The reality is that dc has had 7-8 good movies in the past 30+ years. The fact that the tdk trilogy is the only thing mentioned outside of a couple dceu movies is very telling

[PlatnumRoyce]

 

29 minutes ago, ZattMurdock said:

 

The Suicide Squad and Wonder Woman aren’t among my favorite films of the genre but I think they are far superior than Joker. What was acclaimed on Joker isn’t the film itself, but Phoenix’s performance as Joker, which is very different than saying that one is lauded as one of the best films of the genre ever. Sure, I think that Phoenix earned the Oscar for best actor, but "better comic movies ever"? Ehh. 

I think "greatest overall film" versus "people just praised Phoenix's performance" sets up an unhelpful false dichotomy. I think the best argument against Joker is simply that it's much less than the sum of its parts because you really can't downplay the undeniably strong technical aspects of the film. 

You can think the film ultimately gets say a 3/5 star grade but I can't imagine very many people feel that the film's praise for sound mixing, score, cinematography, etc. was undeserved. Here's the first negative review I saw on RT (2/5 stars)

 

Quote

Joker is exceedingly well-crafted, but the impressive technical achievements count for little in a movie that’s aimless and unfocused in its trendy nihilism. Like Fight Club, it will serve as a rallying cry for a certain subset of self-pitying males. But Fight Club is a movie that has been misdiagnosed and misinterpreted by those who champion it the most. Joker, on the other hand, clearly lays out its cards and tells these easily triggered jokers exactly what they want to hear. It offers sympathy for the devil — the one that dances in the pale moonlight. - https://thefilmfrenzy.com/2019/10/04/joker-the-tears-of-a-clown/

I would give Nightmare Alley a 2/5 star grade but there's clearly award worthy craft work going on in the film. 

Edited June 15, 2023 by PlatnumRoyce

[Borobudur]

 

4 minutes ago, TheDarkKnightOfSteel said:

What tf was up with this film’s horrendous cgi.fucking awful.How did they allowed it to be released ? The story was passable but this is the first time the cgi takes me out off the movie.Guess the big ass budget was spent on Miller’s lawyers. 

Was people ever this conscious about CGI in the movie? I realise audience are a lot more vocal about CGI nowadays especially post-Covid. 

[excel1]

Impressive special effects used to be something people gushed about years ago, but that seems largely gone. 

 

Michael Bay'd first Transformers film is the last time I remember a consensus "holy fuck that was insane" around special effects in a film. 

[PlatnumRoyce]

2 minutes ago, excel1 said:

Impressive special effects used to be something people gushed about years ago, but that seems largely gone. 

 

Michael Bay'd first Transformers film is the last time I remember a consensus "holy fuck that was insane" around special effects in a film. 

Avatar (2009) but I think the core point is a smart one. I'd also argue Fury Road (2015) received some degree of this reaction but the film's box office doesn't really reflect it. 

[ZattMurdock]

1 minute ago, PlatnumRoyce said:

 

I think "greatest overall film" versus "people just praised Phoenix's performance" sets up an unhelpful false dichotomy. I think the best argument against Joker is simply that it's much less than the sum of its parts because you really can't downplay the undeniably strong technical aspects of the film. 

You can think the film ultimately gets say a 3/5 star grade but I can't imagine very many people feel that the film's praise for sound mixing, score, cinematography, etc. was undeserved. Here's the first negative review I saw on RT (2/5 stars)

 

 

Good point. For me it felt very formulaic, and I also find it incredibly distasteful to make Joker a sympathetic figure. It’s Taxi Driver when it comes to what is obviously heavy influenced by, and I say that to a fault, not really a compliment. Joker should be dangerous and not really an anti-hero, it felt a lot to me ironically like Venom, never mind how outstanding Phoenix performance is. But I do think that the general consensus I see from people - and how I personally feel about the film as well - is that it’s a terrific performance in a meh film, with a predictable story, with the biggest sin for me trying too hard to make us feel about the Joker. He is a sociopath, a lunatic. Not an anti-hero. I feel a lot like Blue Beetle’s uncle when it comes to Batman, but making Joker an anti-establishment sympathetic anti-hero felt hollow and a complete lack of understanding of the source material.

[ChipDerby]

People don't gush over CGI much anymore because they don't notice it 99% of the time. With most of these big budget shows/movies, people don't realize that the environments are HUGELY CGI'd because it's done so well. So when the 3rd act of The Flash happens, and a characters face looks odd, they don't even realize that everything else in the shot looks real, but is actually CGI.

 

Give the VFX artists a break.

[WorkingonaName]

The Joker is one of the best CBMS and I'm tired of pretending its not. 

[excel1]

3 minutes ago, ChipDerby said:

People don't gush over CGI much anymore because they don't notice it 99% of the time. With most of these big budget shows/movies, people don't realize that the environments are HUGELY CGI'd because it's done so well. So when the 3rd act of The Flash happens, and a characters face looks odd, they don't even realize that everything else in the shot looks real, but is actually CGI.

 

Give the VFX artists a break.

 

everyone is far too accustomed to the Star Wars prequels esque cartoon look.

[Veclozy]

What is WB doing lol

[Mr Roark]

Again with the Snyder blaming? Come on it’s been 7 years since they butchered his movies.

[Dominic Draper]

People should examine the last 30 years of DC films at the box office.

 

Pre Snyder DC was releasing stuff like catwoman, Jonah hex and green lantern 

 

The successes are the exception, not the norm. Blaming any one person or event is silly. The brand has never really been strong.

[Menor the Destroyer]

14 minutes ago, excel1 said:

Impressive special effects used to be something people gushed about years ago, but that seems largely gone. 

 

Michael Bay'd first Transformers film is the last time I remember a consensus "holy fuck that was insane" around special effects in a film. 

....we just had one a few months ago lmao

[WorkingonaName]

I blame WW84. The Love and Thunder of its time. 

[LVB]

This thread is a mess. I love it.

[Emporio]

9 minutes ago, Dominic Draper said:

People should examine the last 30 years of DC films at the box office.

 

Pre Snyder DC was releasing stuff like catwoman, Jonah hex and green lantern 

 

The successes are the exception, not the norm. Blaming any one person or event is silly. The brand has never really been strong.

EXACTLY. How many obscure characters has dc managed to ibtegrate into pop culture? Aquaman? Thats it. Their other successful movies are batman related and wonder woman, aka two of their most famous characters.

 

Even green arrow who was semi successful was a cw show so the vast majority of people didnt bother

 

 

[excel1]

10 minutes ago, Menor Reborn said:

....we just had one a few months ago lmao

 

I guess I didn't even consider those traditional special effects because the entire film is basically animation. But you're right. 

[Emporio]

10 minutes ago, WorkingonaName said:

I blame WW84. The Love and Thunder of its time. 

Dc movies would kill for love and thunder box office

[ChipDerby]

14 minutes ago, Veclozy said:

What is WB doing lol

 

Is there any proof WB submitted the copyright claim?

[Future Foundation]

2 minutes ago, Emporio said:

Dc movies would kill for love and thunder box office

 

The Batman literally outgrossed Love and Thunder.