IATSE Strike Discussion Thread | Deal ratified

[john2000]

[EmpireCity]

9 minutes ago, Porthos said:

 

The great thing about unions is that, unlike voters, one really doesn't have to wait  a few years to show displeasure with leadership.

 

---

 

Speaking of voters, I do think part of the problem here is looking at unions under the government/voter lens.  A union, or rather a strong union, is closer to a legislative body where most of the time the actual work is left to committees and various leadership groups and then is formally ratified by the rest of the legislature.

 

But, occasionally, legislative bodies will revolt over leadership and either vote down what their leaders came up with, or get rid of said leaders entirely and put a different group in their place to get something different.

 

Is this a sign of "choosing shitty leaders"?  You know what? Fair, if a coarse way of putting it.

 

But much like legislative bodies, union membership can decide to get rid of their shitty leaders if they decided they made a mistake in appointing them in the first place.

 

(once more, with feeling: all of this is predicated on enough of IATSE membership deciding this is a bad deal)

 

If I am the studios, at a very minimum I give the union members a good dressing down for sending leaders they had zero intention to listening to for wasting the studios time with this horseshit and crappy leaders that the union members all elected to represent them.  After that I tell them don't send back the first set of clowns you sent to negotiate, send someone that you are actually going to listen to if a deal is cut.  

 

From there, out of general principle, the first deal I offer up to the new negotiators is far worse than the one the old negotiators just agreed to.  

Edited October 17, 2021 by EmpireCity

[Porthos]

2 minutes ago, john2000 said:

i mean he answered to another user, and his answer wasnt about the topic you guys talked about.

 

I was commenting that it was, IMO, ironic that just as I was making a side point that unions are closer to legislative bodies in how they are structured and deal with issues/leadership than representative democracy, EC went ahead and started talking about representative democracy.

 

The irony being that I could have just as easily quoted EC's post there and barely changed a word in response.

 

(also, who am I to pass up a chance to post a Palpatine meme? I have a brand to maintain, after all  )

 

[EmpireCity]

22 minutes ago, dudalb said:

Becuase he wants to go see his movies in December, no matter what.

 

No, I want an industry that was nearly killed by a global pandemic to not suffer though even more pain because union members reject a deal their own leaders agreed to because they want to go out and picket and yell at people and get media attention.  

 

How selfish of me.  

[Porthos]

3 minutes ago, EmpireCity said:

 

If I am the studios, at a very minimum I give the union members a good dressing down for sending leaders they had zero intention to listening to for wasting the studios time with this horseshit and crappy leaders that the union members all elected to represent them.  After that I tell them don't send back the first set of clowns you sent to negotiate, send someone that you are actually going to listen to if a deal is cut.  

 

From there, out of general principle, the first deal I offer up to the new negotiators is far worse than the one the old negotiators just agreed to.  

 

How 'bout we actually wait to hear what the actual concerns are with this deal, if indeed there are many people with concerns, before we start going down this road?

[john2000]

1 minute ago, Porthos said:

 

I was commenting that it was, IMO, ironic that just as I was making a side point that unions are closer to legislative bodies in how they are structured and deal with issues/leadership than representative democracy, EC went ahead and started talking about representative democracy.

 

The irony being that I could have just as easily quoted EC's post there and barely changed a word in response.

 

(also, who am I to pass up a chance to post a Palpatine meme? I have a brand to maintain, after all  )

 

i see, sorry

 

[john2000]

1 minute ago, Porthos said:

 

How 'bout we actually wait to hear what the actual concerns are with this deal, if indeed there are many people with concerns, before we start going down this road?

[Water Bottle]

3 minutes ago, Porthos said:

 

How 'bout we actually wait to hear what the actual concerns are with this deal, if indeed there are many people with concerns, before we start going down this road?

 

No that's too unreasonable we must first burn down everything before we dare to listen.  

 

[john2000]

Just now, Water Bottle said:

 

No that's too unreasonable we must first burn down everything before we dare to listen.  

 

it wouldnt be the first time for this forum  certainly , love to see it though :?

[EmpireCity]

3 minutes ago, Porthos said:

 

How 'bout we actually wait to hear what the actual concerns are with this deal, if indeed there are many people with concerns, before we start going down this road?

 

I completely agree, which is why I'm a bit heated here.  We haven't even seen the details yet and already one side is hitting up their media contacts and making a giant stink of how bad the deal is and trying to preemptively kill it and garner the support of the public.  

[EmpireCity]

2 minutes ago, Water Bottle said:

 

No that's too unreasonable we must first burn down everything before we dare to listen.  

 

 

Thank you for making my point.  

[The GOAT]

How long before the conspiracy theories about the Union Leadership being Corporate Agents arises?

Edited October 17, 2021 by The GOAT

[Val357]

1 minute ago, The GOAT said:

How long before the conspiracy theories about the Union Leadership being Corporate Agents arises?

Well, it's not like unions screwing over their workers is unheard of. 

[Dementeleus]

5 minutes ago, The GOAT said:

How long before the conspiracy theories about the Union Leadership being Corporate Agents arises?

See, some of that stuff is blatant fearmongering. Union leadership isn’t trying to sell us out. Sheesh. 

[Porthos]

6 minutes ago, EmpireCity said:

 

I completely agree, which is why I'm a bit heated here.  We haven't even seen the details yet and already one side is hitting up their media contacts and making a giant stink of how bad the deal is and trying to preemptively kill it and garner the support of the public.  

 

So, if I could translate then, what you're really upset about is that instead of doing some hard work by getting folks on the record about what they don't like about this deal, various Trades are just engaging in sloppy regurgitation of vague concerns (as well as platitudes) and calling it a day?

 

Gosh.  If we can't rely on the Variety's and Deadline's of the world to dig in and do the hard leg work on Hollywood Reporting, who can we trust to do it? 

 

 

[Porthos]

2 minutes ago, Porthos said:

 

So, if I could translate then, what you're really upset about is that instead of doing some hard work by getting folks on the record about what they don't like about this deal, various Trades are just engaging in sloppy regurgitation of vague concerns (as well as platitudes) and calling it a day?

 

Gosh.  If we can't rely on the Variety's and Deadline's of the world to dig in and do the hard leg work on Hollywood Reporting, who can we trust to do it? 

 

 

 

Of course, another ironic thing is, that it wasn't until the ninth paragraph or so in the Variety article that set @EmpireCity (at least partially) off that even the vaguest of grumblings was even made.

 

In fact, as I scan that Variety article there is exactly one-and-a-half paragraphs in it that could even be categorized as anti-deal (one anti deal and one paragraph ambivalent).

 

It's almost as if Variety had a clickbait-ish headline that bore absolutely no resemblance to the article itself. 

 

Edited October 17, 2021 by Porthos

[john2000]

Just now, Porthos said:

 

So, if I could translate then, what you're really upset about is that instead of doing some hard work by getting folks on the record about what they don't like about this deal, various Trades are just engaging in sloppy regurgitation of vague concerns (as well as platitudes) and calling it a day?

 

Gosh.  If we can't rely on the Variety's and Deadline's of the world to dig in and do the hard leg work on Hollywood Reporting, who can we trust to do it? 

 

 

there is only person for the job

 

 

[Val357]

1 minute ago, Plain Old Tele said:

See, some of that stuff is blatant fearmongering. Union leadership isn’t trying to sell us out. Sheesh. 

I don't know a damn thing about the business so I'm trying to do more listening and less talking but my 2 cents is you can hardly blame anyone for being paranoid given the level of corruption all over these days. The news is full of it in all sectors it seems.

 

Again, I don't know a thing so I'm not trying to argue that there is any selling out going on. I just don't blame people for being paranoid if they're looking at the deal and it's a long way off what was promised (again, I don't have a clue what was promised, just talking in a very general sense).

[Dementeleus]

2 minutes ago, Val357 said:

I don't know a damn thing about the business so I'm trying to do more listening and less talking but my 2 cents is you can hardly blame anyone for being paranoid given the level of corruption all over these days. The news is full of it in all sectors it seems.

 

Again, I don't know a thing so I'm not trying to argue that there is any selling out going on. I just don't blame people for being paranoid if they're looking at the deal and it's a long way off what was promised (again, I don't have a clue what was promised, just talking in a very general sense).

Yes, in that case I hope those people become more engaged with their local leadership and that their leadership communicates well with them. In some cases I feel like some local leadership may not have managed expectations prior to any deal. I feel very comfortable with Local 700 at the moment but of course each situation is different. 

[EmpireCity]

6 minutes ago, Plain Old Tele said:

See, some of that stuff is blatant fearmongering. Union leadership isn’t trying to sell us out. Sheesh. 

 

Completely agree and I feel bad for people like you that are working hard and good faith to get a fair deal that get torpedoed by people with a blatant agenda to say no to whatever is/was agreed to so they can have their day on strike in the media spotlight.