The Marvel / MCU Thread || From Blade to Secret Wars, All Things Marvel!

[YM!]

2 minutes ago, toutvabien said:

So... how badly do y'all think the Filoniverse movie is gonna tank after seeing The Marvels box office??

It’ll do a bit better relatively as more people watched Mandalorian and Ashoka and Boba Fett over Ms Marvel and WandaVision but still a huge money loser as no one cares about that team up.

 

Think that Rey sequel is better off because you don’t have to watch the films. Tbh think Star Wars needs to fundamentally move on from the Skywalker legacy.

Edited November 20, 2023 by YM!

[ZattMurdock]

57 minutes ago, nevermore said:

You're a brave solider for a billion dollar company. I hope they pay you.

The problem isn’t @SpiderByte. The problem is how hard this message board has a problem recognizing they have a fandom wars issue. I don’t post here anymore, I think BOT has fallen to 4Chan/NeoGAF levels of discourse — not that other places don’t have a similar issue either — but when you get a more civilized discourse on the seventh sphere of hell that is Twitter than here, you can’t expect people to stick around, especially when the moderation team has an obvious blind spot for what goes on here. 
 

You have Marvel and DC fans here, with loads of film bros discourse in between. Lots of them are fans of both, like myself. I don’t post or talk about film here anymore not because I’m not passionate about Marvel, not because I’m not excited for its future, but when users shit even on the actual forum’s admin for calling out a lot of the sexist shit spewed around The Marvels, regardless how one can feel about the film or not, no wonder that people don’t see BOT an welcome place to talk about these films.
 

Not only it’s not worth to ‘debate’ with people that I wouldn’t discuss absolutely anything, but when the moderation team — that clearly has some Marvel fans, that’s not really the issue — goes out of their way to over compensate not being called "Marvel shills" by silencing the very few sticking around here to talk about these films, it becomes pointless. You can see "brave soldiers" fans of Superman Legacy on this very page, and I don’t think you needed me to point that out, it’s just to point out that this holier than thou attitude here against the one dude still sticking around that is passionate enough to talk about Marvel Studios films is pointless. Film bros are as much annoying and passionate as the most staunch Marvel or DC fans. It’s franchise wars all day, every day, while we are slowly seeing the popular experience of moviegoing die, with lots of pointing fingers thrown around.

 

I saw this Stuckmann video here days ago and I don’t think film bros or Stuckmann which I actually respect understand what is going on:

 

 

 

Not only Scorsese was wrong, but this whole film bro discourse about Marvel and blockbuster is the reason why movie theaters are doomed to become niche and go the way of live theater. What makes movie theaters is the POPULAR EXPERIENCE. When you have film bros echoing misguided criticisms by an old man that doesn’t accept that the times have changed, no wonder that the few people that still used to care about going to the movies will stop caring. If anything, Scorsese is the enemy, not the MCU. He is the one employed by Apple, Netflix, Amazon and etc. He is the one working for those with an actual vested interested on killing cinema, regardless how much I’m a fan of the man. Tragically, what is killing the movie theater experience is the complete lack of vision from film bros that don’t get that in order to movie theaters to survive as they are, they need to be popular. Shaming people for loving the MCU or whatever other franchise that puts butts at movie theaters seats isn’t helping. 
 

Unlike Stuckmann’s optimism, I don’t believe the ‘westerns’ analogy and narrative that is thrown around here. I don’t think movie theaters can survive with Barbie, Super Mario Bros and Oppenheimer every other full moon. I don’t think that literally anything other than Deadpool 3 will break out next year and with that, we keep marching to the moviegoing experience slow death and a handful of films can’t save the movie theaters of becoming more and more like a live theatre expensive and boutique experience. The irony is that blockbusters will survive. The Avengers, Star Wars, Spider-Men and Batmen of the world will survive. What we are speed running is the death of movie theaters, while Apple is happy to fall in the film bros good graces by funding $250m vanity projects to Scorsese. I’m not sure if there is something to be done about it. Same for climate change. Maybe it’s already too late, but then again, who cares am I right? I’m sure that a lot of film bros would love to see movie theaters die before acknowledging that Marvel carried a lot of the water up until 2019 and that a MCU film single-handedly reignited the box office less than two years ago with Spider-Man: No Way Home.

 

Other than that, @SpiderByte is right. It will be two years of hell, even Deadpool 3 blowing up while everything meltdowns at the box office. And if Marvel Studios gets an excellent turnaround leading to Secret Wars, it will be declared dead after that, just like it does every other day here for the last ten years. I’m pretty sure that the death of cinema next year will be proclaimed next year too, when BOT darlings fail to perform. Hell it might not even take that long for the next meltdown.

 

My advice to @SpiderByte is the same I gave to myself and @Cap the other day: ‘Asgard is not a place, it’s a people’. I’m still speaking my mind on Twitter/Bluesky with my same username, I just don’t feel comfortable as the punching bag for what I believe it has become an incredible toxic place to talk about film. There I don’t need to deal with film bro types angling me at every post I make like <censored> or deal with the absolute wasteland of 40-year-olds or even older than me that get their feelings hurt about films featuring women like The Marvels revealed a lot of people here. These aren’t my peers, these aren’t people I’d want to talk with neither ‘debate’, and if it makes you feel unwelcome as well my advice is, leave. We don’t need this shit on our lives.

 

Best of luck to BOT, but it has always been the other way around: we don’t need BOT, BOT is that it need us. If the crowd is what it is today, if they will go out of their way to mock extremely valuable users for the absolute shitfest that was The Marvels Opening Weekend thread or for just being passionate about Marvel, DC or whatever gives you a kick, know that it’s BOT that needs you, not the other way around. If the crowd that BOT will cater to its this one, I just don’t want anything to do with it, and I invite anyone that doesn’t feel welcome here anymore to do the same.

 

TL;DR: The biggest enemy of cinema was never the MCU. MCU, contrary to what Scorsese thinks, actually makes cinema. What is killing cinema is Scorsese’s employer Apple, Netflix. It’s TikTok, YouTube, vapid and fast content. When film bros trash popular films, they are helping to speedrun the death of the movie theaters. Movie theaters wouldn’t survive in the 80s with Scorsese’s films, it wouldn’t survive now with whatever film bros hoped it was popular like it was when they were kids. If we all we do is trash the popular experience, no wonder that the public will just watch whatever at their phones. It’s hard to compete with free, a bunch of weirdos constantly complaining about blockbusters will only accelerate the complete assimilation of our content streaming overlords.

 

 

[Masketta Man]

Apparently being a Marvel fan = cheer on for every middling project they put out. For me it's the opposite, I criticize them because I know they can do better.

 

Also, Scorsese has such a free real estate on MCU fans heads that he can shot on location there for his next movies.

[Kon]

29 minutes ago, ZattMurdock said:

My advice to @SpiderByte is the same I gave to myself and @Cap the other day: ‘Asgard is not a place, it’s a people’. I’m still speaking my mind on Twitter/Bluesky with my same username, I just don’t feel comfortable as the punching bag for what I believe it has become an incredible toxic place to talk about film. There I don’t need to deal with film bro types angling me at every post I make like <censored> or deal with the absolute wasteland of 40-year-olds or even older than me that get their feelings hurt about films featuring women like The Marvels revealed a lot of people here. These aren’t my peers, these aren’t people I’d want to talk with neither ‘debate’, and if it makes you feel unwelcome as well my advice is, leave. We don’t need this shit on our lives.

 

 

It's good that you find a place where you can find comfortable.

 

That said, The Marvels being a bomb isn't fault of the people who get their feelings hurt about films featuring women. This bomb is caused by indifference on the MCU brand and the characters.

 

 

PS: Also, I'm not sure what is your problem with 40 years old, but we will reach that age too (I hope).

Edited November 20, 2023 by Kon

[MysteryMovieMogul]

21 minutes ago, ZattMurdock said:

I saw this Stuckmann video here days ago and I don’t think film bros or Stuckmann which I actually respect understand what is going on:

 

This just furthers my theory that film critics think they're the only ones who can save 'cinema.'

 

 

[Liiviig 1998]

3 hours ago, SpiderByte said:

Could it be because literally every single Marvel thread has become unending waves of "cancel everything, (insert project name here) is doomed" every ten minutes, maybe?

 

It's really hard to say I'm the one overreacting when people just spent a page talking about how a hypothetical movie would be doomed.

nvm

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 20, 2023 by Liiviig 1998

[Cap]

The overarching issues that we — as a board, as a culture, as an existential crisis — have fractioned our society further back into tribalism. Or “Teams”.  Everything is my team is right, your team is wrong, when the truth is very, very much living in between. 
 

Until we recognize that, we’re just going to go round and round going no where. And this discussion is going to be exhausting. 

[DAR]

People might not like the same type of entertainment you like.    It’s okay to just move on.

[SchumacherFTW]

3 minutes ago, Cap said:

The overarching issues that we — as a board, as a culture, as an existential crisis — have fractioned our society further back into tribalism. Or “Teams”.  Everything is my team is right, your team is wrong, when the truth is very, very much living in between. 
 

Until we recognize that, we’re just going to go round and round going no where. And this discussion is going to be exhausting. 

So long as you're not team Verstappen, all is well, am I right @Plain Old Tele

[Jean Claude Web Madam]

4 hours ago, Masketta Man said:

Virtually all the characters in the team are just "boohoo my government/spy agency experimented and manipulated me", they don't have even different background to spicy it up like Suicide Squad.

 

Honestly, what made the Thunderbolts a popular name was the original reveal that they were secretly villains. A twist like that would work wonders with the general audience, it would be a fresh take on the MCU.

Instead we got a team of crybabies.

[TheFlatLannister]

1 hour ago, ZattMurdock said:

The problem isn’t @SpiderByte. The problem is how hard this message board has a problem recognizing they have a fandom wars issue. I don’t post here anymore, I think BOT has fallen to 4Chan/NeoGAF levels of discourse — not that other places don’t have a similar issue either — but when you get a more civilized discourse on the seventh sphere of hell that is Twitter than here, you can’t expect people to stick around,

I’m so confused. People keep saying this but everything on this forum is mildly contentious at times but never toxic. Debates are supposed to be a bit contentious because that’s how we as a society avoid groupthink. This forum is way more civil than twitter that’s for sure. 

[Liiviig 1998]

1 hour ago, ZattMurdock said:

The problem isn’t @SpiderByte. The problem is how hard this message board has a problem recognizing they have a fandom wars issue. I don’t post here anymore, I think BOT has fallen to 4Chan/NeoGAF levels of discourse — not that other places don’t have a similar issue either — but when you get a more civilized discourse on the seventh sphere of hell that is Twitter than here, you can’t expect people to stick around, especially when the moderation team has an obvious blind spot for what goes on here. 
 

You have Marvel and DC fans here, with loads of film bros discourse in between. Lots of them are fans of both, like myself. I don’t post or talk about film here anymore not because I’m not passionate about Marvel, not because I’m not excited for its future, but when users shit even on the actual forum’s admin for calling out a lot of the sexist shit spewed around The Marvels, regardless how one can feel about the film or not, no wonder that people don’t see BOT an welcome place to talk about these films.
 

Not only it’s not worth to ‘debate’ with people that I wouldn’t discuss absolutely anything, but when the moderation team — that clearly has some Marvel fans, that’s not really the issue — goes out of their way to over compensate not being called "Marvel shills" by silencing the very few sticking around here to talk about these films, it becomes pointless. You can see "brave soldiers" fans of Superman Legacy on this very page, and I don’t think you needed me to point that out, it’s just to point out that this holier than thou attitude here against the one dude still sticking around that is passionate enough to talk about Marvel Studios films is pointless. Film bros are as much annoying and passionate as the most staunch Marvel or DC fans. It’s franchise wars all day, every day, while we are slowly seeing the popular experience of moviegoing die, with lots of pointing fingers thrown around.

 

I saw this Stuckmann video here days ago and I don’t think film bros or Stuckmann which I actually respect understand what is going on:

 

 

 

Not only Scorsese was wrong, but this whole film bro discourse about Marvel and blockbuster is the reason why movie theaters are doomed to become niche and go the way of live theater. What makes movie theaters is the POPULAR EXPERIENCE. When you have film bros echoing misguided criticisms by an old man that doesn’t accept that the times have changed, no wonder that the few people that still used to care about going to the movies will stop caring. If anything, Scorsese is the enemy, not the MCU. He is the one employed by Apple, Netflix, Amazon and etc. He is the one working for those with an actual vested interested on killing cinema, regardless how much I’m a fan of the man. Tragically, what is killing the movie theater experience is the complete lack of vision from film bros that don’t get that in order to movie theaters to survive as they are, they need to be popular. Shaming people for loving the MCU or whatever other franchise that puts butts at movie theaters seats isn’t helping. 
 

Unlike Stuckmann’s optimism, I don’t believe the ‘westerns’ analogy and narrative that is thrown around here. I don’t think movie theaters can survive with Barbie, Super Mario Bros and Oppenheimer every other full moon. I don’t think that literally anything other than Deadpool 3 will break out next year and with that, we keep marching to the moviegoing experience slow death and a handful of films can’t save the movie theaters of becoming more and more like a live theatre expensive and boutique experience. The irony is that blockbusters will survive. The Avengers, Star Wars, Spider-Men and Batmen of the world will survive. What we are speed running is the death of movie theaters, while Apple is happy to fall in the film bros good graces by funding $250m vanity projects to Scorsese. I’m not sure if there is something to be done about it. Same for climate change. Maybe it’s already too late, but then again, who cares am I right? I’m sure that a lot of film bros would love to see movie theaters die before acknowledging that Marvel carried a lot of the water up until 2019 and that a MCU film single-handedly reignited the box office less than two years ago with Spider-Man: No Way Home.

 

Other than that, @SpiderByte is right. It will be two years of hell, even Deadpool 3 blowing up while everything meltdowns at the box office. And if Marvel Studios gets an excellent turnaround leading to Secret Wars, it will be declared dead after that, just like it does every other day here for the last ten years. I’m pretty sure that the death of cinema next year will be proclaimed next year too, when BOT darlings fail to perform. Hell it might not even take that long for the next meltdown.

 

My advice to @SpiderByte is the same I gave to myself and @Cap the other day: ‘Asgard is not a place, it’s a people’. I’m still speaking my mind on Twitter/Bluesky with my same username, I just don’t feel comfortable as the punching bag for what I believe it has become an incredible toxic place to talk about film. There I don’t need to deal with film bro types angling me at every post I make like <censored> or deal with the absolute wasteland of 40-year-olds or even older than me that get their feelings hurt about films featuring women like The Marvels revealed a lot of people here. These aren’t my peers, these aren’t people I’d want to talk with neither ‘debate’, and if it makes you feel unwelcome as well my advice is, leave. We don’t need this shit on our lives.

 

Best of luck to BOT, but it has always been the other way around: we don’t need BOT, BOT is that it need us. If the crowd is what it is today, if they will go out of their way to mock extremely valuable users for the absolute shitfest that was The Marvels Opening Weekend thread or for just being passionate about Marvel, DC or whatever gives you a kick, know that it’s BOT that needs you, not the other way around. If the crowd that BOT will cater to its this one, I just don’t want anything to do with it, and I invite anyone that doesn’t feel welcome here anymore to do the same.

 

TL;DR: The biggest enemy of cinema was never the MCU. MCU, contrary to what Scorsese thinks, actually makes cinema. What is killing cinema is Scorsese’s employer Apple, Netflix. It’s TikTok, YouTube, vapid and fast content. When film bros trash popular films, they are helping to speedrun the death of the movie theaters. Movie theaters wouldn’t survive in the 80s with Scorsese’s films, it wouldn’t survive now with whatever film bros hoped it was popular like it was when they were kids. If we all we do is trash the popular experience, no wonder that the public will just watch whatever at their phones. It’s hard to compete with free, a bunch of weirdos constantly complaining about blockbusters will only accelerate the complete assimilation of our content streaming overlords.

 

 

Nah . The general Audience is the chief decider. If they are not interested or think a movie is not worth there time ,they will not turn up.

 

You can complain about film bros as much as you want  or some of us here giving criticism as " haters" . But the critics and audience have also turned around the  MCU for giving us less quality . Audience metrics and box office speak for themselves.

 

If you like current MCU fine and if you want a comfortable space for that ,fine too.

Yeah poeple go overboard and that needs to be handled . But Criticism can help something grow and is a means to hold those in charge accountable. 

 

 

So  don't expect us to see franchise going wayward and act all " happy and everything is fine" when it's not. That would be unrealistic.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Sckathian]

I don't think the people suggesting Disney will have to make hard financial and creative decisions are 'choosing a team'.

[ZattMurdock]

1 hour ago, MysteryMovieMogul said:

This just furthers my theory that film critics think they're the only ones who can save 'cinema.'

 

 

Here is the thing: fillm criticism - and the whole film bro discourse and the online tribalism that Cap has mentioned - is part of the whole online eco system. Tribalism is the founding block of the online culture, and it’s not a coincidence that in our online forever war ouroboros, YouTube and Twitter actively favor content that is based on outrage, look no further than the exaggerated YouTube thumbnails that became a staple on YouTube about literally anything, including film ‘criticism’.

 

Even if we don’t mention the obvious presence of an ever growing culture war, shit like this ended up validated by film bro discourse — or the dumbification of discourse, that spreads either in culture, politics or literally anything:

 

When we validate Grace Randolphs of the world, we made a whole generation of Armond Whites types. And that’s not even the bigger issue.
 

Our time on Earth is finite. Our time online comes with a cost, that it is doing anything else other than not being online. YouTube and Twitter, social media in general do not want us at the movies. Films, blockbusters or not, are funded with a shitload of money, when social media generates content for free for them. They want us embroiled with our culture wars and close to our devices, so it’s easy for Apple to fund quixotic ‘absolute cinema’ endeavors, because they do understand that the endgame is online, not at a movie theater.

 

Cinema is cinema. Marvel is cinema. Scorsese is cinema. Going to the movies is absolute cinema. It doesn’t matter if it’s Nolan, the Russo Brothers, Greta Gerwig, Nia DaCosta’s The Marvels and Five Nights At Freddy’s? Absolute Cinema. Do you know what isn’t cinema though?

 

Our slow descent into a NPC culture isn’t cinema. Instagram stories aren’t cinema. Twitch streams aren’t cinema. YouTube’s whole eco system, from our quixotic cinema saviors Stuckmann or Willems to the Grace Randolphs and Nerdrotics of the world aren’t cinema. Our dumbfication isn’t cinema. Unfortunately, we are still descending into it, and I don’t see it changing. Cinema will survive. Movie theaters, unfortunately, as we came to know them at least, I do not think so.

 

 

[YM!]

1 hour ago, ZattMurdock said:

The problem isn’t @SpiderByte. The problem is how hard this message board has a problem recognizing they have a fandom wars issue. I don’t post here anymore, I think BOT has fallen to 4Chan/NeoGAF levels of discourse — not that other places don’t have a similar issue either — but when you get a more civilized discourse on the seventh sphere of hell that is Twitter than here, you can’t expect people to stick around, especially when the moderation team has an obvious blind spot for what goes on here. 
 

You have Marvel and DC fans here, with loads of film bros discourse in between. Lots of them are fans of both, like myself. I don’t post or talk about film here anymore not because I’m not passionate about Marvel, not because I’m not excited for its future, but when users shit even on the actual forum’s admin for calling out a lot of the sexist shit spewed around The Marvels, regardless how one can feel about the film or not, no wonder that people don’t see BOT an welcome place to talk about these films.
 

Not only it’s not worth to ‘debate’ with people that I wouldn’t discuss absolutely anything, but when the moderation team — that clearly has some Marvel fans, that’s not really the issue — goes out of their way to over compensate not being called "Marvel shills" by silencing the very few sticking around here to talk about these films, it becomes pointless. You can see "brave soldiers" fans of Superman Legacy on this very page, and I don’t think you needed me to point that out, it’s just to point out that this holier than thou attitude here against the one dude still sticking around that is passionate enough to talk about Marvel Studios films is pointless. Film bros are as much annoying and passionate as the most staunch Marvel or DC fans. It’s franchise wars all day, every day, while we are slowly seeing the popular experience of moviegoing die, with lots of pointing fingers thrown around.

 

I saw this Stuckmann video here days ago and I don’t think film bros or Stuckmann which I actually respect understand what is going on:

 

 

 

Not only Scorsese was wrong, but this whole film bro discourse about Marvel and blockbuster is the reason why movie theaters are doomed to become niche and go the way of live theater. What makes movie theaters is the POPULAR EXPERIENCE. When you have film bros echoing misguided criticisms by an old man that doesn’t accept that the times have changed, no wonder that the few people that still used to care about going to the movies will stop caring. If anything, Scorsese is the enemy, not the MCU. He is the one employed by Apple, Netflix, Amazon and etc. He is the one working for those with an actual vested interested on killing cinema, regardless how much I’m a fan of the man. Tragically, what is killing the movie theater experience is the complete lack of vision from film bros that don’t get that in order to movie theaters to survive as they are, they need to be popular. Shaming people for loving the MCU or whatever other franchise that puts butts at movie theaters seats isn’t helping. 
 

Unlike Stuckmann’s optimism, I don’t believe the ‘westerns’ analogy and narrative that is thrown around here. I don’t think movie theaters can survive with Barbie, Super Mario Bros and Oppenheimer every other full moon. I don’t think that literally anything other than Deadpool 3 will break out next year and with that, we keep marching to the moviegoing experience slow death and a handful of films can’t save the movie theaters of becoming more and more like a live theatre expensive and boutique experience. The irony is that blockbusters will survive. The Avengers, Star Wars, Spider-Men and Batmen of the world will survive. What we are speed running is the death of movie theaters, while Apple is happy to fall in the film bros good graces by funding $250m vanity projects to Scorsese. I’m not sure if there is something to be done about it. Same for climate change. Maybe it’s already too late, but then again, who cares am I right? I’m sure that a lot of film bros would love to see movie theaters die before acknowledging that Marvel carried a lot of the water up until 2019 and that a MCU film single-handedly reignited the box office less than two years ago with Spider-Man: No Way Home.

 

Other than that, @SpiderByte is right. It will be two years of hell, even Deadpool 3 blowing up while everything meltdowns at the box office. And if Marvel Studios gets an excellent turnaround leading to Secret Wars, it will be declared dead after that, just like it does every other day here for the last ten years. I’m pretty sure that the death of cinema next year will be proclaimed next year too, when BOT darlings fail to perform. Hell it might not even take that long for the next meltdown.

 

My advice to @SpiderByte is the same I gave to myself and @Cap the other day: ‘Asgard is not a place, it’s a people’. I’m still speaking my mind on Twitter/Bluesky with my same username, I just don’t feel comfortable as the punching bag for what I believe it has become an incredible toxic place to talk about film. There I don’t need to deal with film bro types angling me at every post I make like <censored> or deal with the absolute wasteland of 40-year-olds or even older than me that get their feelings hurt about films featuring women like The Marvels revealed a lot of people here. These aren’t my peers, these aren’t people I’d want to talk with neither ‘debate’, and if it makes you feel unwelcome as well my advice is, leave. We don’t need this shit on our lives.

 

Best of luck to BOT, but it has always been the other way around: we don’t need BOT, BOT is that it need us. If the crowd is what it is today, if they will go out of their way to mock extremely valuable users for the absolute shitfest that was The Marvels Opening Weekend thread or for just being passionate about Marvel, DC or whatever gives you a kick, know that it’s BOT that needs you, not the other way around. If the crowd that BOT will cater to its this one, I just don’t want anything to do with it, and I invite anyone that doesn’t feel welcome here anymore to do the same.

 

TL;DR: The biggest enemy of cinema was never the MCU. MCU, contrary to what Scorsese thinks, actually makes cinema. What is killing cinema is Scorsese’s employer Apple, Netflix. It’s TikTok, YouTube, vapid and fast content. When film bros trash popular films, they are helping to speedrun the death of the movie theaters. Movie theaters wouldn’t survive in the 80s with Scorsese’s films, it wouldn’t survive now with whatever film bros hoped it was popular like it was when they were kids. If we all we do is trash the popular experience, no wonder that the public will just watch whatever at their phones. It’s hard to compete with free, a bunch of weirdos constantly complaining about blockbusters will only accelerate the complete assimilation of our content streaming overlords.

 

 

 

I do agree that there’s an overall negativity problem on the forums in general, not just for the blockbusters but the overall nature of the theatrical future in general. I do know quite a bit of fans who have felt uncomfortable being in the forum because there is increased hostility. I do also agree that streaming in general and overall corporate greed is the overall biggest fish to fry for theatrical future. There’s obvious dudes you can tell just by posting habit who has artistic issues with tentpoles and who’s against “wokeness”. The latter shown their true colors over the past few weeks, some better or worse than others and are pretty much a small but heavily annoying minority. We should try in general to be kinder to each other and that we do get too aggressive on flops. I do think the pandemic and overall problems with our world has made it harder to focus on the positivity. 

 

However, I do think that the issue at large isn’t Scorsese and film bros killing cinema which I feel is laughable. Especially when you’ve partaken in similar behavior numerous times in the past and the present of trolling and stirring the pot. Thats like saying Marvel fans memeing DC woes killed the franchise. Whats happening to Marvel, is similar to any other franchise, they’ve reached diminishing returns primarily because of oversaturation. It annoys me people will blame women and POC before the fact we had 23 MCU projects within the past two years, which not only overworked Marvel but did contribute to why somethings came out more half-baked than usual. It can be remedied and while I’m not optimistic on the future, the brands won’t die outright. Secret Wars can be the end of the MCU but the heroes won’t die out. 

 

The problem with the film industry is that audiences have gotten way more accustomed to streaming than the theatrical experience primarily due to cheaper prices and short windows. Scorsese saying there should be equal room for films that aren’t tentpoles as well. For fuck sake’s, dude wrote an impassioned soliloquy about his time and has said many times he only used Marvel as an example of the leaders of tentpoles and said there’s room for tentpoles, yes including superhero films can be considered cinema. The problem is that studios have focused on just tentpoles and brands and have pushed been focus primarily so on taking little risks and now the general audiences are starting to get tired of them. 
 

The way events are prioritized is not healthy and doesn’t help when studios are unwilling to take risks because of it by sending those films to streamers or like Disney, choose not to make them at all. There’s plenty of low and mid budget films that could do well with the right marketing campaign and effort, and it’s important that not just tentpole survives but all films do, because film shapes how we see the world and allows new voices to thrive. It should not be just event films dominating all or being the only thing tried, and it’s not fair to dismiss artists and crew members who don’t want to be part of that process, especially when there’s an amount you have to sacrifice for the average tentpole. Tentpoles shouldn’t be the only option for POC or women directors to make films and it’s ridiculous we gotten to this point.

 

Scorsese has done great works in making sure filmmakers of color has gotten their works shown through his World Heritage Foundation but to chalk it up to the old white man is out of touch because he said something mean about something you love annoys me. Scorsese earned his right to offer his opinion. Especially calling him for sleeping with the streaming devil when Feige unleashed a boatload of streaming shows just because he thought he could, with the same budget. 

 

Especially when, most of these tentpole studios that have been making noticeable and great strides in representation (my god, it’s so great for kids now - kid me could only have dreamed about the amount of black heroes on the screen), primarily care less so about giving power to those voices but can turn on a dime based on profitability. There’s a huge reason why I don’t trust Iger or Feige with proper onscreen LGBTQ representation especially after using Alonso as the scapegoat. I’m also disappointed with how Falcon and the Winter Soldier took a heavily centrist view versus the Black Panther movies which still standout as dynamite films.

 

I really disliked this anti-intellectual attack on critics these past few years in not just film but in music and games. It not alone makes fans look bad, but it makes one ignore criticism. It hurts when someone who’s of great name and prestige doesn’t like the stuff you do, and you feel clowned because sometimes it feels like an attack on you, when it’s not the case. However at the end of the day, love what you love. The best you can do is just ignore and move on if you feel it’s contributing to your enjoyment though it should never get to that point. Despite my hangups with the franchise, I still love Marvel. However, I’m not going to stick my head in the sand when there’s obvious problems nor am I going to let the voices of others effect my enjoyment.

Edited November 20, 2023 by YM!

[Masketta Man]

42 minutes ago, Jean Claude Web Madam said:

 

Honestly, what made the Thunderbolts a popular name was the original reveal that they were secretly villains. A twist like that would work wonders with the general audience, it would be a fresh take on the MCU.

Instead we got a team of crybabies.

The first story arc of the team would be a perfect framework for a cinematic adaptation, you can even use Yelena as a stand in for Natasha if they wanted, as the Avenger related character that smells there is something fishy with the situation. Not only that but their personalities are very strong and I think GA would accept Songbird and Moonstone like they did with Harley and Wanda because they are very flawed and relatable characters. It's strange that Marvel and the fanbase pride themselves on supporting female characters but when a team that have two major female characters erased there isn't a single shred of controversy.

[ZattMurdock]

7 minutes ago, YM! said:

 

I do agree that there’s an overall negativity problem on the forums in general, not just for the blockbusters but the overall nature of the theatrical future in general. I do know quite a bit of fans who have felt uncomfortable being in the forum because there is increased hostility. I do also agree that streaming in general and overall corporate greed is the overall biggest fish to fry for theatrical future. There’s obvious dudes you can tell just by posting habit who has artistic issues with tentpoles and who’s against “wokeness”. The latter shown their true colors over the past few weeks, some better or worse than others and are pretty much a small but heavily annoying minority. We should try in general to be kinder to each other and that we do get too aggressive on flops. I do think the pandemic and overall problems with our world has made it harder to focus on the positivity. 

 

However, I do think that the issue at large isn’t Scorsese and film bros killing cinema which I feel is laughable. Especially when you’ve partaken in similar behavior numerous times in the past and the present of trolling and stirring the pot. Thats like saying Marvel fans memeing DC woes killed the franchise. Whats happening to Marvel, is similar to any other franchise, they’ve reached diminishing returns primarily because of oversaturation. It annoys me people will blame women and POC before the fact we had 23 MCU projects within the past two years, which not only overworked Marvel but did contribute to why somethings came out more half-baked than usual. It can be remedied and while I’m not optimistic on the future, the brands won’t die outright. Secret Wars can be the end of the MCU but the heroes won’t die out. 

 

The problem with the film industry is that audiences have gotten way more accustomed to streaming than the theatrical experience primarily due to cheaper prices and short windows. Scorsese saying there should be equal room for films that aren’t tentpoles as well. For fuck sake’s, dude wrote an impassioned soliloquy about his time and has said many times he only used Marvel as an example of the leaders of tentpoles and said there’s room for tentpoles, yes including superhero films can be considered cinema. The problem is that studios have focused on just tentpoles and brands and have pushed been focus primarily so on taking little risks and now the general audiences are starting to get tired of them. 
 

The way events are prioritized is not healthy and doesn’t help when studios are unwilling to take risks because of it by sending those films to streamers or like Disney, choose not to make them at all. There’s plenty of low and mid budget films that could do well with the right marketing campaign and effort, and it’s important that not just tentpole survives but all films do, because film shapes how we see the world and allows new voices to thrive. It should not be just event films dominating all or being the only thing tried, and it’s not fair to dismiss artists and crew members who don’t want to be part of that process, especially when there’s an amount you have to sacrifice for the average tentpole.

 

Scorsese has done great works in making sure filmmakers of color has gotten their works shown through his World Heritage Foundation but to chalk it up to the old white man is out of touch because he said something mean about something you love annoys me. Scorsese earned his right to offer his opinion. Especially calling him for sleeping with the streaming devil when Feige unleashed a boatload of streaming shows just because he thought he could, with the same budget. 

 

Especially when, most of these tentpole studios that have been making noticeable and great strides in representation (my god, it’s so great for kids now - kid me could only have dreamed about the amount of black heroes on the screen), primarily care less so about giving power to those voices but can turn on a dime based on profitability. There’s a huge reason why I don’t trust Iger or Feige with proper onscreen LGBTQ representation especially after using Alonso as the scapegoat. I’m also disappointed with how Falcon and the Winter Soldier took a heavily centrist view versus the Black Panther movies which still standout as dynamite films.

 

I really disliked this anti-intellectual attack on critics these past few years in not just film but in music and games. It not alone makes fans look bad, but it makes one ignore criticism. It hurts when someone who’s of great name and prestige doesn’t like the stuff you do, and you feel clowned because sometimes it feels like an attack on you, when it’s not the case. However at the end of the day, love what you love. The best you can do is just ignore and move on if you feel it’s contributing to your enjoyment though it should never get to that point. Despite my hangups with the franchise, I still love Marvel. However, I’m not going to stick my head in the sand when there’s obvious problems nor am I going to let the voices of others affect my enjoyment.

Here’s the thing: in my opinion, Scorsese is an useful idiot here. It’s not that film bros or the online discourse truly cares about what he thinks. Hell, judging by Killers of the Flower Moon’s box office, they clearly do not. Our culture doesn’t really care about Scorsese’s films or what he has done for cinema. I’m well aware that he is an absolute cinema nerd, and I know that people like you and me will write walls of texts that are well intentioned and with the heart in the right place. But what our culture actually cares about is the discourse, it’s the online clout, it’s liking what is ‘cool’, it’s the ‘absolute cinema’ meme.

 

I think you are misunderstanding what I’m saying here, I’m very much against anti-intellectual attacks on film critics, the issue is that RT clearly muddled the waters with what kind of shit is allowed there as film criticism these days. With all due respect, if you think my criticism for Snyder’s joints is any different than my criticism to the MCU, you clearly don’t understand me. I think those were legitimately bad films, that’s my opinion on them. I think The Marvels is middle to lower tier MCU, I think Marvel Studios failed Nia DaCosta and her cast by not delaying the film to 2024 because despite all its flaws and issues that I do have with that film, I think that there is an actual heart and chemistry there that could benefit from a proper promo tour with the whole cast.

 

And this isn’t about me worrying about the future of the MCU or DCU either, btw. I don’t think they are going absolutely anywhere, they are here to stay. What is unfortunate is that when a film like The Marvels or Birds of Prey fail to engage with the box office — and I’d rank both of them very similarly — is that this complicates the chances for future films like those. It is what it is. I’m talking about a much broader issue, which is the lack of understanding that our streaming overlords — unlike a lot of the film buffs optimists here think — aren’t going anywhere either. What I’m worried about is the future of the movie theaters as a popular experience. What I’m worried about is how dumbed down our discourse is, how tribalistic it is and how clearly even you that took the time to write this well thought out reply see me as an ‘enemy’ or inside ‘team Marvel’ when I’m team ‘superhero genre’. I’m ‘team’ blockbusters. I’m team cinema as a popular moviegoing experience to everyone.
 

When a place like this becomes toxic to people that just want to see themselves represented in the big screen, when this place gets to a point that it will laugh at the face of its admin because she is an woman that is pointing out how fucked up this board has become, it’s an issue that I cannot overlook. And I’m a straight 42 year-old dude. Imagine women and other minorities that only browse around here. The kind of discourse that this place has descended it’s not something I’m comfortable to engage with, and no, bigotry isn’t justified. My whole point about Scorsese is that the film bro discourse made him the poster child, with every single film that break out or get ‘hyped up’ to break out since the pandemic started being very much white centered stories, from No Way Home to Barbie and Oppenheimer. Nevermind the fact that Black Panther: Wakanda Forever, a future lead by Black women mourning the death of an Afro-American that became both a hero in the big screen and real life did break out one year ago but people keep putting these imaginary metrics against the MCU films to justify that is declining. I don’t think the MCU is dying. I don’t think Gunn’s DCU won’t be profitable. What I think is that we are getting more and more influenced by a kind of vitriol criticism that doesn’t help movie theaters, and Scorsese, even if not voluntarily, became a poster child of that movement. It’s gamergate tactics, just like we’ve seen with how politics across the globe since 2013. ‘Absolute Cinema’ is the kind of harmful rhetoric just like ‘ethics in videogame journalism’ back in the day, even if film bros fail to realize that they do play a part on validating the ‘go woke, go broke’ discourse. 

[Kon]

24 minutes ago, Masketta Man said:

The first story arc of the team would be a perfect framework for a cinematic adaptation, you can even use Yelena as a stand in for Natasha if they wanted, as the Avenger related character that smells there is something fishy with the situation. Not only that but their personalities are very strong and I think GA would accept Songbird and Moonstone like they did with Harley and Wanda because they are very flawed and relatable characters. It's strange that Marvel and the fanbase pride themselves on supporting female characters but when a team that have two major female characters erased there isn't a single shred of controversy.

 

I guess it's because the a good amount of the MCU fanbase didn't know these characters. Not to mention the Thurderbolts in the movie has three females.

 

Also, as Marvel are cheaters, they are going to release a Thunderbolts comics in December with a similar team as in the movie (they add Sharon Carter and Shang-Chi instead of Ghost).

Edited November 20, 2023 by Kon

[Masketta Man]

8 minutes ago, Kon said:

 

I guess it's because the a good amount of the MCU fanbase didn't know these characters. Not to mention the Thurderbolts in the movie has three females.

 

Also, as Marvel are cheaters, they are going to release a Thunderbolts comics in December with a similar team as in the movie (they add Sharon Carter and Shang-Chi instead of Ghost).

Two of them being just genderswaps of male characters in comics, that's even worse. Also, that comic is going to be just a 4 issue miniseries, it's not even going to be a blip on the radar.

[TheFlatLannister]

Switching gears a bit...A live action Miles Morales film could make some serious cash. His character has lots of good will among fans rn and it will only grow as BTSV inevitably hits it out of the park.