Nolan vs Jackson

[dashrendar44]

Jackson is more comparable to Raimi. Both made a name for themselves with popular cult horror movies (Evil Dead, Braindead) before taking their styles to more somewhat more mainstream territory (Darkman, The Frighteners) making successful bids for critical acclaim (A Simple Plan, Heavenly Creatures) and ultimately landing huge mainstream gigs with Spider-Man and LotR.The difference now being that Raimi, despite next year's Oz, is sticking to his horror roots with Drag Me To Hell and his upcoming original horror movie, while Jackson seems content to make everything big now.

That's why I prefer Sam Raimi. A Simple Plan is such a good film as a thriller and character study, a complete antithesis of horror slapstick that made Raimi famous. He completely adapted to the material and left his over-the-top camera work trademark when necessary, almost stripped down to the bare bone.OTOH, Heavenly Creatures still got some fantasy elements and awful kitsch backgrounds with giant CGI butterflies (yeah we got it, it's an imaginary world within the mind of two young troubled teenage girls) as fancy camera work even it's a drama. God knows I hate his extreme close ups with wide angle lenses like he's running with a camera on his shoulders straight to the actors faces bordering of bumping into their noses. It looks so amateurish. He kept on doing this since Bad Taste even on big blockbusters like LOTR and KK. Some may argue it's PJ's style but it's ugly it became a cliche in his movies. Even when he's handling big budgets, I can still sense his amateurish sense of direction and bad taste in overbloating everything (Drama is soap opera's syrup in slow mo, violence is slaptisck gore, comedy is heavy handed fart jokes, Action is Massive CGI bloat all over the place etc.) . He cannot tone down his twitches to serve the material. Every movie becomes an excuse for his self-indulgence. I won't speak of Lovely Bones to keep some decency...I'd really like to see a PJ's movie that don't rely on fantasy and CGI, just pure character study and drama. So, we can compare to his peers. Edited December 27, 2012 by dashrendar44

[The Dark Alfred]

Half a dozen? Nah

Bad TasteMeet The FeeblesKing KongLovely BonesUnexpected Journey

[ddddeeee]

That's why I prefer Sam Raimi. A Simple Plan is such a good film as a thriller and character study, a complete antithesis of horror slapstick that made Raimi famous. He completely adapted to the material and left his over-the-top camera work trademark when necessary, almost stripped down to the bare bone.

Agreed. It's his best movie hands down, quietly heartbreaking.

[DAR]

I prefer Nolan but I like both.

[Jessie]

Bad TasteMeet The FeeblesKing KongLovely BonesUnexpected Journey

Still not half a dozen.

[fishstick]

God knows I hate his extreme close ups with wide angle lenses like he's running with a camera on his shoulders straight to the actors faces bordering of bumping into their noses.

Or, worse, Shitto`s teeth and zoom into cavities. True story.

It looks so amateurish. He kept on doing this since Bad Taste even on big blockbusters like LOTR and KK. Some may argue it's PJ's style but it's ugly it became a cliche in his movies. Even when he's handling big budgets, I can still sense his amateurish sense of direction and bad taste in overbloating everything (Drama is soap opera's syrup in slow mo, violence is slaptisck gore, comedy is heavy handed fart jokes, Action is Massive CGI bloat all over the place etc.) . He cannot tone down his twitches to serve the material. Every movie becomes an excuse for his self-indulgence.

Nothing but truth this post is.

[vc2002]

Oh boy this thread has turned into a Jackson bashing contest.

[jb007]

Jackson is being written off by many. His last two movies have made things tough for him. It also looks like he is on the way down from his peak.To be fair, I like only one non-Batman trilogy movie from Nolan (memento). Contrary to popular belief even Nolan has only one non-Batman trilogy blockbuster in Inception. The same can be said about King Kong and Jackson even while admitting that KK under performed compared to the high expectations. There were $1 Billion+ WW gross expectations from several industry insiders and even Universal was very high on KK prior to release.While I got bored with the first and third acts in King Kong, I would personally take King Kong over Inception any day.

Edited December 27, 2012 by jb007

[vc2002]

Jackson is being written off by many. His last two movies have made things tough for him. It also looks like he is on the way down from his peak.To be fair, I like only one non-Batman trilogy movie from Nolan (memento). Contrary to popular belief even Nolan has only one non-Batman trilogy blockbuster in Inception. The same can be said about King Kong and Jackson even while admitting that KK under performed compared to the high expectations. There were $1 Billion+ WW gross expectations from several industry insiders and even Universal was very high on KK prior to release.While I got bored with the first and third acts in King Kong, I would personally take King Kong over Inception any day.

Inception is a total win for Nolan. A big budget original project, critically acclaimed, Oscar BP nom, and a much better boxoffice result than expectation. Taking out Pixar's works, there are only two original films that grossed more than Inception non-adjustedly (Avatar and Titanic). Despite TDK being a massive success and the reason Inception got the investment from WB, I think Inception is a much more important moment in Nolan's career. He's now at the top of hollywood, and he can do anything he wants.KK, on the other hand, is a letdown for everyone, boxoffice-wise and reception-wise. Then of cause came the disaster TLB.BTW, since Jackson's going back to the Middle Earth isn't really playing well either, I do think he's got a little problem in his career. There are no more stories in the Middle Earth for him to continue after TH films, and since his effort of going to new territory (KK & TLB) wasn't successful, I wonder whether he will go back to his old horror films to refresh a little bit. Edited December 27, 2012 by vc2002

[jb007]

Inception is a total win for Nolan. A big budget original project, critically acclaimed, Oscar BP nom, and a much better boxoffice result than expectation. Taking out Pixar's works, there are only two original films that grossed more than Inception non-adjustedly (Avatar and Titanic). Despite TDK being a massive success and the reason Inception got the investment from WB, I think Inception is a much more important moment in Nolan's career. He's now at the top of hollywood, and he can do anything he wants.

KK, on the other hand, is a letdown for everyone, boxoffice-wise and reception-wise. Then of cause came the disaster TLB.

BTW, since Jackson's going back to the Middle Earth isn't really playing well either, I do think he's got a little problem in his career. There are no more stories in the Middle Earth for him to continue after TH films, and since his effort of going to new territory (KK & TLB) wasn't successful, I wonder whether he will go back to his old horror films to refresh a little bit.

KK may have under performed, but it was very successful.considering it made $550M world wide in 2005.

In terms of critical reception, KK and Inception are pretty close.

KK: RT 84% Rating 7.7

Inception: 86% Rating 8.0

I don't think that one can claim superiority over the other. Personally, I despise Inception where in Nolan felt that the audience were stupid and hence key players had to constantly educate the audience with the set up of the movie which is ridiculous.

[teardropmina]

both KK and Inception are those "watching once is too many" films for me, but I personally actually dislike Inception... ever since after showing Paprika to my students, they told me how much Paprika was like Inception >"<

[The Dark Alfred]

Still not half a dozen.

Well, it is much more than zero, which is Nolan's count for awful films. Insomnia is the only film that people can force to paint as not great and it wasn't a half bad movie. Add the next two TH film to Jackson's list and you get half dozen.

[jb007]

Well, it is much more than zero, which is Nolan's count for awful films. Insomnia is the only film that people can force to paint as not great and it wasn't a half bad movie. Add the next two TH film to Jackson's list and you get half dozen.

Insomnia was a very poor effort from Nolan given the pool of talented performers involved. But I do agree that his non batman movies like The Prestige are better than movies like The Lovely Bones which was a stinker. Further, Jackson may have hurt himself more with The Hobbit. IMHO:Memento > HC, and HC is also quite goodThe Frighteners >>> InsomniaBatman Trilogy >>>> LOTR trilogyKK >>>InceptionThe Prestige > The Lovely Bones

[Jessie]

Well, it is much more than zero, which is Nolan's count for awful films. Insomnia is the only film that people can force to paint as not great and it wasn't a half bad movie. Add the next two TH film to Jackson's list and you get half dozen.

Okay so you're adding 2 movies that haven't even come out yet and using you're own biased opinion to bash the other films. I'm sorry but King Kong is not as bad as people make out and IMO its better and more powerful than anything Nolan has done. Edited December 27, 2012 by Jessie

[Jessie]

both KK and Inception are those "watching once is too many" films for me, but I personally actually dislike Inception... ever since after showing Paprika to my students, they told me how much Paprika was like Inception >"<

I liked inception when I first watched it, but its when we get to the 3rd dream level that the movie drags and starts to become a chore to watch. it becomes so stuck up itself that its as if Nolan is trying to show-off his talent instead of actually entertaining us. I've always loved KK but maybe that's because I originally watched it on very low expectations, still, I find it better than Inception. Edited December 27, 2012 by Jessie

[fishstick]

Jackson is being written off by many. His last two movies have made things tough for him. It also looks like he is on the way down from his peak.

3 movies. Anyway, I don`t think he`s written off but he did peak with LOTR. That`s a fact. IMO, he could turn things around with a Lincoln-type of a movie where you expected Spileberg to be overly sentimental and have everyone ham it up like there`s no tomorrow and he makes a restrained movie. So a lean, restrained movie without slo mo and close-ups shit for Jackson. But he won`t turn things around with more ME movies, that`s a given and TH is a proof that it ain`t happening.Also, KK went down in history as King Bloat, not necessarily a bad movie, but it became a pop culture reference for bloated so it is not a positive thing, while Inception still hasn`t earned a negative label outside of general "overrated" label that all movies have. And Prestige is considered a very good smaller movie. It wasn`t a flop and it certianly wasn`t meant to make Batman money. So it wasn`t a step down for Nolan but then again, Nolan after BB wasn`t Nolan after TDK. Still, Inception was a much better career follow-up than KK was.Finally, in PJ defense, he burst on the radar with an unprescended logistical undertaking instead of a just one movie. That changes the level of expectations as unfair as it is but for him it`s really that people expect him to always top that undertaking and one movie can`t do it. I think that he decided on HFR and eventually 3 movie split because he feels that he won`t be given credit if he doesn`t top LOTR in that department but quality of at least the first movie in the new trilogy suffered as a result. Edited December 27, 2012 by fishnets

[Jake Gittes]

I feel sorry for people who consider Bad Taste "awful". It's not quite Braindead, but it has its ridiculously awesome moments. As for Nolan preferring structure over character in Memento, I think Leonard Shelby is the most-developed and by far the most tragic character in any of his films, so I definitely disagree. Teddy is also great, and Natalie was his only strongly-written female character until Selina Kyle came along. To me, Memento is Nolan's masterpiece precisely because structure and character development are in perfect balance from start to finish, and the ending elevates the story to bonafide Greek tragedy level. It might be almost an hour shorter than TDK, TDKR and Inception, but it's got everything it needs to work... and absolutely no fat.

[teardropmina]

I liked inception when I first watched it, but its when we get to the 3rd dream level that the movie drags and starts to become a chore to watch. it becomes so stuck up itself that its as if Nolan is trying to show-off his talent instead of actually entertaining us. I've always loved KK but maybe that's because I originally watched it on very low expectations, still, I find it better than Inception.

my problem with KK is its excessiveness of everything, acting, cinematography, editing, and music, everything. When everything is magnified to extreme, the film becomes blend and monotonous. I just couldn't watch it again~as for Inception, I think Nolan deliberately makes the narrative convoluting, which is unnecessary because the concepts he tries to express aren't really complicated. also, the action sequences, especially those involving gunfights, almost put me to sleep~lastly, it may seem to be a nitpick, but I do really think that Nolan creates an unimaginative narrative out of a subject matter that's imagination itself -- dream. we're already in the dream, where everything can be symbolic of anything else yet he comes up with the safe box metaphor... a physical safe locking away our secrets...like secret documents...in the dream?? seriously?

[fishstick]

I feel sorry for people who consider Bad Taste "awful". It's not quite Braindead, but it has its ridiculously awesome moments.

Bad Taste is exactly where PJ is now only with much bigger budget. Watch that movie and you`ll see he hasn`t grown as a film-maker at all. Moments of brilliance? Check. Redundancy? Check. (Derek`s seizures grew old after the second one much like Frodo`s Ring-induced ones). Overlong? Check.(thanks largely to kung fu sequence that way overstayed its welcome,and repeating himself as mentioned already, the 80 minute movie felt much longer).Excess? Check.(sometimes shocking people for the sake of shock isn`t the best way to go especially if that`s what everyone remembers of all the movie. Vomit drinking, nuff said). Paper-thin characters? Check.It`s funny that all his strengths and weaknesses as a film-maker at this moment are exactly the same he had in his very first feature film.

[dashrendar44]

as for Inception, I think Nolan deliberately makes the narrative convoluting, which is unnecessary because the concepts he tries to express aren't really complicated. also, the action sequences, especially those involving gunfights, almost put me to sleep~lastly, it may seem to be a nitpick, but I do really think that Nolan creates an unimaginative narrative out of a subject matter that's imagination itself -- dream. we're already in the dream, where everything can be symbolic of anything else yet he comes up with the safe box metaphor... a physical safe locking away our secrets...like secret documents...in the dream?? seriously?

Inception is a movie about the imagination of a white collar accountant made by an architecture fan. Hence why it's boring and monotone. Didn't understand why people complained there was no fantasy in these dreamscapes (like random flying pink elephants) , my only concern was the complete lack of sex. Edited December 27, 2012 by dashrendar44