Pacific Rim (2013)

[Jessie]

Pacific Rim's problem was less 'not being embraced by audiences' and more 'not being seen by audiences'. Marketing for general audiences was very poor and the fact that it was an original property (unlike Transformers which was based on an already huge, very well-known franchise that most of its demographic probably grew up with) didn't work in its favour.

 

And, as we've mentioned over and over, Money doesn't equal quality or audience appreciation. Unless you're seriously trying to argue that Avatar is the best and most well-loved movie of all time.

 

[Ozymandias]

Lol so you say and I quote, you'd rather watch paint dry than watch these yet you'll still come back for BOTH sequels?? Yeah it looks like someone is over-exaggerating just how much he hates those movies. If I didn't like a movie that much, I wouldn't watch it's sequels. At the end of the day, both movies are basically style over substance, Bays movie just had better style, and clearly you must think this because if you really hated the story, acting and humour that much, something must have made you keep coming back to these 2 and a half hour bores. Shot yourself in the foot there mate.

 

I watch new Michael Bay movies once(rarely at the theater though) because it makes the brutal reviews they always(and deservedly) get even more enjoyable to read.  Its not that I need professional film critics who watch hundreds of movies a year for a living and know a lot about the trade to tell me what to think, but they always hold more weight than gullible GA or fanboys, especially when it comes to Bayformers.  I'll admit Pain & Gain was decent though. 

[Jessie]

Your argument is pretty much entirely 'Transformers made more money therefore audiences must've liked it better' which wrong on so many levels. Avatar is not the most widely loved film in the world by audiences by any means. Going to watch a film in the cinema doesn't necessarily mean you must love it. I've seen plenty of films in the cinema I've hated. I've gone back to rewatch films I liked but also not rewatched films I liked even more due to a lack of money at the time. Also, I don't know if you've noticed, but, while July may have been a success in previous years, it really hasn't been this year. There wasn't a single major box office smash in July and pretty big number of underperformers. Most of the well-performing blockbusters for this year were in April/May/June.

So despicable me 2 wasn't a smash hit then? Despite earning 360m and 900m ww. Guess when it was released. I'll give you a clue, it's the month after June .

[Jessie]

I watch new Michael Bay movies once(rarely at the theater though) because it makes the brutal reviews they always(and deservedly) get even more enjoyable to read. Its not that I need professional film critics who watch hundreds of movies a year for a living and know a lot about the trade to tell me what to think, but they always hold more weight than gullible GA or fanboys, especially when it comes to Bayformers. I'll admit Pain & Gain was decent though.

That's all well and good but if I listened to film critics I would have missed out on films like We're the millers which to me was probably the funniest film id seen all year. The GA know it has a very cliche story but they embrace it because it's still hilarious and entertains them. Bay is an entertainer, he won't ever change and critics hate him because he will never change. If you read the the RT reviews for Pain and Gain you'd see so many critics that have clearly made up their mind before even watching the film. Edited October 30, 2013 by Jessie

[rukaio101]

Which one is? How do you make a poll?

 

You're mixing BO/quality/popularity/audience reception.

 

Is Avatar the best movie ever? No. No one has ever said so.

 

Was Avatar popular? To make those BO numbers, it gotta be at some point so we can say that it had a wide positive reception among general audience WW that elicited multiple viewings due to WOM only weeks after weeks.

 

That's the same with Transformers regardless of what you and I think of the quality of those movies.

 

So why did PR's so called good WOM and good reception fail to drain general audience the second week and so on unlike those two peers?

 

 

That either means PR had shitty WOM that made it crumble from a meh opening or it didn't interest people at all past the core audience since day 1. If it was well received widely speaking, the word would have sprayed out at some point. For some obscure reason, PR was well received by audience like Transformers but the word was not sprayed out to general audience unlike Transformers... 

Pacific Rim suffered from poor marketing, being an original property and having no big stars that would appeal to general audiences. It's little surprise that the vast majority of general audiences were not at all interested in it even with good word of mouth. Not to mention, the fact that there had already been a large glut of Summer action Blockbusters and people were obviously tiring of them didn't help either.

 

Transformers, on the other hand, was based on an already very popular series and, I won't deny, had some brilliant action scenes which were widely talked about and probably helped to draw people back.

 

I don't deny for a second that Transformers did much better box office wise that Pacific Rim. What I do object to is the idea that, because it made more money, general audiences must think it was the better film. 

 

 

You happen to be the only person replying to my posts... Coincidence

Me being the only person who ever replies to your posts (which I seriously doubt is true) doesn't mean I'm stalking you, especially if I only reply to a small number of them.

 

 

Ive heard plenty of people claim the first fight looked cheap and the last was underwhelming, ive even heard it on this site.

Well, I've heard plenty of people say the fights in Transformers are messy with too much shakey cam. However, I've heard more people say they liked all the Transformers/Pacific Rim fights than disliked them.

 

 

Oh so the internet is our basis as to what audiences find funny and don't?? okay then.

The internet is comprised of millions and millions of people. It's sure as hell more reliable than just your opinion.

 

 

Not at all, I watched it with a group of friends, we all noticed it so I guess we are all paranoid lol.

I guess you are. Especially since I googled several variations of 'Pacific Rim Charlie Hunnam aggressive stare) and didn't get a single relevant result.

 

 

Lol so you say and I quote, you'd rather watch paint dry than watch these yet you'll still come back for BOTH sequels?? Yeah it looks like someone is over-exaggerating just how much he hates those movies. If I didn't like a movie that much, I wouldn't watch it's sequels. At the end of the day, both movies are basically style over substance, Bays movie just had better style, and clearly you must think this because if you really hated the story, acting and humour that much, something must have made you keep coming back to these 2 and a half hour bores. Shot yourself in the foot there mate.

I watched Transformers 2 & 3 because it's my own personal policy not to criticise a film that I haven't watched. Same reason I watched the Twilight Saga. 

 

Also, I had a Rifftrax for the two, so that helped.

 

 

 

So despicable me 2 wasn't a smash hit then? Despite earning 360m and 900m ww. Guess when it was released. I'll give you a clue, it's the month after June .

Despicable Me 2 was also a kids film in a Summer Season with a notable shortage of kids films (until a while after DM2 had premiered).

 

 

 

 

[CaptainJackSparrow]

Yep, I love both the Transformer fights and the Pacific Rim fights.

[Deep Wang]

Ok, as the resident PacRim fanboy, here's my $.02.The majority of people that saw it liked it. I loved it and spend the entire time it was at my theater promoting the hell out of it. I remember a specific time a week or so after it came out. I was covering box office for a little while. I had a group of people come up and look at the times. They asked me what I recommend and of course, I said Pacific Rim. They all made this weird face like, "Why the fuck would I watch that?"Then, they said that they had friends that saw it and liked it too, but they still didn't want to see it. That's evidence of good word of mouth. But, for whatever reason, it didn't appeal to a majority of the public. As much as I wanted the movie to make a ton of money, I'm just fine with it the way it is. I love it and that's all that matters to me.

[rukaio101]

Ok, as the resident PacRim fanboy, 

Just so you know, I have every intention of fighting you for that title.

[John Marston]

Pacific Rim suffered from poor marketing, being an original property and having no big stars that would appeal to general audiences. It's little surprise that the vast majority of general audiences were not at all interested in it even with good word of mouth. Not to mention, the fact that there had already been a large glut of Summer action Blockbusters and people were obviously tiring of them didn't help either.Transformers, on the other hand, was based on an already very popular series and, I won't deny, had some brilliant action scenes which were widely talked about and probably helped to draw people back.I don't deny for a second that Transformers did much better box office wise that Pacific Rim. What I do object to is the idea that, because it made more money, general audiences must think it was the better film. Me being the only person who ever replies to your posts (which I seriously doubt is true) doesn't mean I'm stalking you, especially if I only reply to a small number of them.Well, I've heard plenty of people say the fights in Transformers are messy with too much shakey cam. However, I've heard more people say they liked all the Transformers/Pacific Rim fights than disliked them.The internet is comprised of millions and millions of people. It's sure as hell more reliable than just your opinion.I guess you are. Especially since I googled several variations of 'Pacific Rim Charlie Hunnam aggressive stare) and didn't get a single relevant result.I watched Transformers 2 & 3 because it's my own personal policy not to criticise a film that I haven't watched. Same reason I watched the Twilight Saga. Also, I had a Rifftrax for the two, so that helped.Despicable Me 2 was also a kids film in a Summer Season with a notable shortage of kids films (until a while after DM2 had premiered).

Of course general audiences like TF better. That is what the facts show . You have to stop being a fanboy and accept it

[rukaio101]

Of course general audiences like TF better. That is what the facts show . You have to stop being a fanboy and accept it

Let's compare for a second. I'm basing my argument on the fact that, on websites designed to measure how much audiences enjoy a film, Pacific Rim ranks higher on Transformers.

 

You're basing your argument on the fact that Transformers made more money in the Box Office, something which can be affected by many many factors, other than quality and how much audiences enjoyed the film.

 

Which method of proof do you think better shows how much the general audience liked the films? Something specifically designed to measure how much general audiences liked the films or something for which general audience appreciation plays a big part but is also affected by a lot of other factors?  

[Deep Wang]

Just so you know, I have every intention of fighting you for that title.

Well, that's noble of you! But, I have a few people that can back up my claims

[Plain Old Tele]

Let's not forget rallax dubbed himself "Omega Boner" for the summer months...

[rukaio101]

Let's not forget rallax dubbed himself "Omega Boner" for the summer months...

........ Dammit, I can't beat that.

 

You win this round, Omega Boner, but one day that title shall be mine!!!!!

[John Marston]

Let's compare for a second. I'm basing my argument on the fact that, on websites designed to measure how much audiences enjoy a film, Pacific Rim ranks higher on Transformers.

 

You're basing your argument on the fact that Transformers made more money in the Box Office, something which can be affected by many many factors, other than quality and how much audiences enjoyed the film.

 

Which method of proof do you think better shows how much the general audience liked the films? Something specifically designed to measure how much general audiences liked the films or something for which general audience appreciation plays a big part but is also affected by a lot of other factors?  

 

 

Transformers had better legs at the box office and was strong on DVD sales.  Pacific Rim had poor legs at the box office. If the film was really getting good WOM then it would have spread and the film would have recovered from it's poor opening. This year alone some films opened similarly to  PR like Now You See Me and The Conjuring and Captain Phillips and did better overall. PR even had the prime mid July date. Hell Gravity opened only 18m higher than PR yet will finish with a gross over 150m higher. The facts show that audiences did not care for PR.  

Edited October 31, 2013 by John Marston

[Deep Wang]

Transformers had better legs at the box office and was strong on DVD sales. Pacific Rim had poor legs at the box office. If the film was really getting good WOM then it would have spread and the film would have recovered from it's poor opening. This year alone some films opened similarly to PR like Now You See Me and The Conjuring and Captain Phillips and did better overall. PR even had the prime mid July date. Hell Gravity opened only 18m higher than PR yet will finish with a gross over 150m higher. The facts show that audiences did not care for PR.

The facts show that those that actually watched the movie, generally liked it. The problem is that most of those people were already sold on the film. Just like everyone was stating before release, they didn't advertise beyond the fanbase. That was a huge mistake. Like I said in my example, people heard it was good from multiple sources and it still didn't make them want to see it.

[John Marston]

The facts show that those that actually watched the movie, generally liked it. The problem is that most of those people were already sold on the film.Just like everyone was stating before release, they didn't advertise beyond the fanbase. That was a huge mistake. Like I said in my example, people heard it was good from multiple sources and it still didn't make them want to see it.

 

 

 

from what I heard. What you saw in the trailers is what you got. 

[Deep Wang]

from what I heard. What you saw in the trailers is what you got.

What the hell are you doing in the review thread of a movie you clearly care nothing about?

[John Marston]

What the hell are you doing in the review thread of a movie you clearly care nothing about?

 

 

when people say stuff like "Pacific Rim was loved by audiences" and "it was better received by audiences than Transformers" even though the facts don't support that, I will step in and point this out, I will watch it one day, I may very well like it more than Transformers, but it is clear that audiences like TF but did not care for Pacific Rim since it had poor legs.  Other movies opened lower than Pacific Rim and outgrossed it.

[Jessie]

Let's compare for a second. I'm basing my argument on the fact that, on websites designed to measure how much audiences enjoy a film, Pacific Rim ranks higher on Transformers.

 

You're basing your argument on the fact that Transformers made more money in the Box Office, something which can be affected by many many factors, other than quality and how much audiences enjoyed the film.

 

Which method of proof do you think better shows how much the general audience liked the films? Something specifically designed to measure how much general audiences liked the films or something for which general audience appreciation plays a big part but is also affected by a lot of other factors?  

 

His argument has more weight than yours. You're probably looking at polls voted by 1000 people where-as we are looking at box office figures involving millions of people. Transformers appealed to the GA and upon viewing was raved about. Pacific Rim, not so much. Oh and btw, did you forget to look at the user ratings on RT?? Transformers ranks higher than Pacific Rim  . Its also 0.2 lower than Pacific on IMDM with double the voted and we all know movies tend to drop their ratings overtime. Basically even if we use your method, Transformers still looks to be the favoured film, even among the internet where it's suppose to be hated lol. Anyways This shouldn't even be debated, you can argue all you want but at the end of the day, you're fighting a losing battle

 

And don't claim Transformers was successful due to being based on existing property because that's a load of crap. If that was the case, TMNT  and Battleship would have been mega hits too. Oh btw, you do realise Pacific Rim was based on an original property as well right???

 

Anyways lets just drop this, we know you're wrong and you're probably too stubborn to admit defeat so this could go on forever.

Edited October 31, 2013 by Jessie

[dashrendar44]

 

Pacific Rim suffered from poor marketing, being an original property and having no big stars that would appeal to general audiences. It's little surprise that the vast majority of general audiences were not at all interested in it even with good word of mouth. Not to mention, the fact that there had already been a large glut of Summer action Blockbusters and people were obviously tiring of them didn't help either.

 

Transformers, on the other hand, was based on an already very popular series and, I won't deny, had some brilliant action scenes which were widely talked about and probably helped to draw people back.

 

 

 

 

 

Transformers had no big stars as well (LeBeouf an Fox were nothing back then to GA) and lot of people were skeptical about adapting Hasbro toys to the big screen. "Is Hollywood that desperate?" was the question in the air. Bay was trying to recover after The Island flop. Now everybody is claiming Transformers was always bound to be a smash hit afterwards. No, it wasn't.

 

The next week after Transformers release, there was a little movie called Harry Potter and The Order of the Phoenix. The week before Die Hard 4. The month before Spiderman 3, POTC3. (Don't even counting Ratatouille and Shrek the 3rd that trusted family audience.

 

Transformers had as much competition from "summer big movies" as PR weeks before release and yet managed to get better legs and better WOM than PR.

 

Good WOM spread among GA (TF) > Good WOM not spread among GA (PR)

 

The fact that a wide portion of the few people that saw PR in theaters found it good doesn't mean it had a better reception than TF among GA. It just means that this panel of people (a minority compared to those that saw TF in theaters) found it good since the good WOM was not spread among GA.(That's what BO legs are measuring).

Edited October 31, 2013 by dashrendar44