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[ladyevenstar22]

nobody is perfect so let's not pretend walt disney was an upstanding character in all areas

 

we must realize him like everyone is the product of the good and bad in a person , you can't highlight the good and pretend the bad never happened 

 

meryl is absolutely right to say what she said and heck thompson didnt mind so why should we?

someone had to play the role and i thought thompson played it perfect , coz she's that good ...

 

i'm thinking of looking up the biography on him , its interesting to read why a man grew up to have those views on women (taking into context his era) etc and yet had the vision for disney  company 

[Dementeleus]

I agree Disney wasn't nearly as bad as D.W. Griffith (not even close!)... and like I said, IMO Disney was basically "un-progressive". (Although some of his distancing from the MPAFTPOAI strikes me as "cover your ass".)

 

But if someone made a movie about Griffith that was warmly sentimental about him, you'd have people coming out of the woodwork to slam it (and him).

[Blankments]

So shall we give him the benefit of the doubt and call him "thoroughly un-progressive" in those areas?

 

Here's her specific words: "had some…racist proclivities. He formed and supported an anti-Semitic industry lobby."

 

Is that really so far off-base? What would you call the Motion Picture Alliance for the Preservation of American Ideals?

 

I'll be honest and say I haven't looked much into the Motion Picture Alliance, so I really don't know, but let me put it this way with the racism and antisemitism allegations:

 

On the subject of antisemitism: Walt Disney made anti-Nazi propaganda cartoons. Now, I know this isn't necessarily showing he wasn't anti-Semitic, but it certainly helps his case. Many Jewish workers who worked directed under Walt came forward to defend him after allegations of Walt being anti-Semitic became big thanks to Family Guy. There is no evidence to support Walt Disney being anti-Semitic, but there is plenty to support he was not.

 

On the subject of racism: Yes, Disney's films included racial stereotypes, but so did many other films back then. Heck,  movies such as The Jungle Book and Lady and the Tramp included stereotypes, after Walt was well gone from this world. Walt Disney wasn't that progressive, but he at least tried. Song of the South is now called a racist film, but when it was being made, Walt cleared the script with James Baskett and several anti-racism organizations to try and make sure that no one would take offense. The public reaction of the movie being called racist shocked Disney and hurt his own reputation.

 

Walt was not particularly progressive in race relations, but he tried unlike most people back when he was around in the film industry. What Streep is talking about merely falls under the blind repetition of rumors that have become popular thanks to Seth McFarlane. As Panda said, Streep's just trying to "take a stand and tell Disney to own up to their legacy," which, to some degree, I agree with. However, by calling Disney an anti-Semitic racist, she's basically resorting to name-calling a dead man.

[Lordmandeep]

Well to be honest Dash its quite simple...

 

You cannot dismiss a person's impact on history because he has an imperfect character. 

 

We all have huge flaws and if we became powerful or well known people and after we pass, there would be something lacking in our character that some armchair "holy then thou person" like your self will criticize us about. 

 

 

Its like the works of Kipling...

 

They are very stereotypical but they are quite fun and adventurous and this is coming from someone of Indian decent for crying out loud. 

Edited January 9, 2014 by Lordmandeep

[CoolioD1]

lol, the anti-semite thing with Walt was pretty popular before Family Guy got to it. In fact I remember watching that episode and just waiting for them to get to the obvious jew jokes.

[Blankments]

This made me love her even more.

 

Funny, I just read an article about how Hitchcock was an abusive and manipulative weirdo (not to say a disgusting pig guilty of sexual harassment) toward his actresses to get what he wanted and the commentaries under that article were filled with inflamed commentaries excusing his blatant questionable behavior toward women like "Cut him some slack, he was a freakin' genius!!!He was just the product of this era! The actresses were crap anyway so he was right to "shake" them up because he was a perfectionist!"

 

I didn't know "perfectionist genius" rhymed with harassing blonde actresses due to sexual fetish, threatening to ruin someone's career as part of a blackmail game and put them under physical and psychological harm...

 

Meryl Streep is perfectly right. People excuse everything from the "male art geniuses" of the world.

 

Yes, because Walt Disney abused his workers and sexually harassed his stars. 

 

Hitchcock was messed up, but he's much more comparable to Polanski than Disney, let me just leave it at that

[Dementeleus]

 

I'll be honest and say I haven't looked much into the Motion Picture Alliance, so I really don't know, but let me put it this way with the racism and antisemitism allegations:

 

On the subject of antisemitism: Walt Disney made anti-Nazi propaganda cartoons. Now, I know this isn't necessarily showing he wasn't anti-Semitic, but it certainly helps his case. Many Jewish workers who worked directed under Walt came forward to defend him after allegations of Walt being anti-Semitic became big thanks to Family Guy. There is no evidence to support Walt Disney being anti-Semitic, but there is plenty to support he was not.

 

Here is Disney biographer Neal Gabler on the MPA-etc:

 

That's one of the questions everybody asks me... My answer to that is, not in the conventional sense that we think of someone as being an antisemite. But he got the reputation because, in the 1940s, he got himself allied with a group called the Motion Picture Alliance for the Preservation of American Ideals, which was an anti-Communist and antisemitic organization. And though Walt himself, in my estimation, was not antisemitic, nevertheless, he willingly allied himself with people who were antisemitic, and that reputation stuck. He was never really able to expunge it throughout his life.

[CoolioD1]

Finished my work. It doesn't sound great but I've fucking finished it. Suck my dick. It's one thirty am right now. Gonna get some sleep. Busy and undoubtedly stressful day tomorrow.

[Lordmandeep]

Its simple Disney associated himself with known Anti-Semites.

 

Considering Hollywood is full of Jews and pro Jew to the extreme, he gets a bad rep. 

[Blankments]

Here is Disney biographer Neal Gabler on the MPA-etc:

 

Was the Motion Picture Alliance... publicly anti-Semitic at the time? Or is that something that came out later? And, basing off the name of the organization, it sounds like something required to be in in Hollywood at the time anyway....

 

 

*I honestly don't know anything about the MPA..., I haven't done much research into them

[riczhang]

RicZhang must be like 'PREACH!!!!' right about now.

 

I basically did go like that.

[dashrendar44]

Well to be honest Dash its quite simple...

 

You cannot dismiss a person's impact on history because he has an imperfect character. 

 

We all have huge flaws and if we became powerful or well known people and after we pass, there would be something lacking in our character that some armchair "holy then thou person" like your self will criticize us about. 

 

 

I'm not talking about "dismissing" someone's achievements because that person did bad things. I'm talking about "acknowledging" his flaws and that he wasn't that perfect and untouchable human being in that lens people tend to apply on dead celebrities painting the world in black and white. People have a hard time "acknowledging" their beloved idols couldn't be anything but perfect, they just try to sweep it under the rug and brush all of this off saying "Cut the crap. He was a genius. Period". That's totally different.

 

Take William Friedkin, the man got a reputation of being a total nutjob on set. He did great movies but that's not a reason to excuse his maniacal behavior. I acknowledge he is a gifted asshole.

Edited January 9, 2014 by dashrendar44

[Blankments]

I basically did go like that.

[dashrendar44]

Yes, because Walt Disney abused his workers and sexually harassed his stars. 

 

Hitchcock was messed up, but he's much more comparable to Polanski than Disney, let me just leave it at that

 

You don't get my point...I'm not saying Hitchcock=Disney. I'm describing the process in which people are willing to excuse anything from a "creator" because he was a "genius" in their art.

[Lordmandeep]

I'm not talking about "dismissing" someone's achievements because that person did bad things. I'm talking about "acknowledging" his flaws and that he wasn't that perfect and untouchable human being people tend to apply on dead celebrities painting the world in black and white. People have a hard time "acknowledging" their beloved idols couldn't be anything but perfect, they just try to sweep it under the rug and brush all of this off saying "Cut the crap. He was a genius. Period". That's totally different.

 

Take William Friedkin, the man got a reputation of being a total nutjob on set. He did great movies but that's not a reason to excuse his maniacal behavior. I acknowledge he is a gifted asshole.

 

 

It is true but people always excuse great people's weakness to continue the legend of his name...

 

You see that all the time. 

Edited January 9, 2014 by Lordmandeep

[Blankments]

You don't get my point...I'm not saying Hitchcock=Disney. I'm describing the process in which people are willing to excuse anything from a "creator" because he was a "genius" in their art.

 

I agree about that, but honestly, is it really good to commend someone for just perpetuating old stereotypical allegations against a dead man?

[Dementeleus]

To be fair to her, the main thrust of her comments was about his views and actions towards women. how awesome Emma Thompson is (and secondarily about Disney's views toward women).

Edited January 9, 2014 by Telemachos

[riczhang]

To be fair to her, the main thrust of her comments was about his views and actions towards women.

 

This. Goddess never tried to say that Disney wasn't great, but perhaps that we are forgetting that he wasn't perfect and had his flaws. 

[dashrendar44]

I agree about that, but honestly, is it really good to commend someone for just perpetuating old stereotypical allegations against a dead man?

 

I'm not really commenting about that "Disney is anti-semitic!" accusation even if Tele provided information that the Motion Pictures association Disney got acquainted with was antisemitic indeed and that it fueled the fire until today.

 

It's the part about dismissing a female aspiring animator for sexist reasons. You can't excuse that. I think that's what Streep was focusing on, Disney and his archaic views on women.(that are perpetuated by some big wigs to this day)

Edited January 9, 2014 by dashrendar44

[forg]

I read Meryl's speech and well honestly it was insightful but the the timing was just off