The Disney Thread | Iger will be with us until 2026

[Torontofan]

As I said there is no political agenda

 

They took film franchises and types with set strong audiences and tried to make those films to expand the demographics of these films.  

It was driven by financial point of view, not activism. 

 

Issue is many of the films made were of poor quality so they were dismissed by the core audiences/

Also the films had budgets of 4 quad blockbusters but had limited appeal.

 

 

[cannastop]

19 hours ago, SaltyPistola said:

Honestly I think Disney is good position for a comeback if they actually make some good shit. They've been slipping for a while but I don't think anyone has been able to properly fill the 4 quadrant all ages AAAA blockbuster hole they've left open. I'd say barbie was at that level but it feels more like an outlier. Elemental and TLM were pretty middling movies that had even more middling box office performances, but they still showed that the audience is there and waiting. 

The problem is "just make great movies" isn't the soundest strategy. Like do you think they chose to have declining returns on hand drawn movies after The Lion King?

 

I do think Pixar might make good movies in the future though. Not sure about WDAS but Zootopia 2 is something I might want to see. I'm not too optimistic about Marvel though. And Star Wars is dead.

[AniNate]

They're definitely not ignoring their creative struggles promoting the searchlight head to live action, will just have to wait for what fruit that move bears.

 

WDA and Pixar did try to "make good movies" for a bit and got hit by a combo of bad luck and audience rejection. I don't blame them for pivoting to emphasis on sequels now but I still prefer we got those 9 original films from them since 2020 than not.

 

 

Edited April 10 by AniNate

[cannastop]

6 hours ago, AniNate said:

They're definitely not ignoring their creative struggles promoting the searchlight head to live action, will just have to wait for what fruit that move bears.

 

WDA and Pixar did try to "make good movies" for a bit and got hit by a combo of bad luck and audience rejection. I don't blame them for pivoting to emphasis on sequels now but I still prefer we got those 9 original films from them since 2020 than not.

 

 

I'm thinking more that the "make good movies" strategy is like the "just win every election" strategy for political parties. Untenable to have them all be winners.

[AniNate]

They're easier to root for at least if they're trying to take more risks (ie original / auteur-pitched movies)

[Spidey Freak]

18 hours ago, cannastop said:

The problem is "just make great movies" isn't the soundest strategy. Like do you think they chose to have declining returns on hand drawn movies after The Lion King?

 

Unfortunately for hand drawn films, the far superior Toy Story happened in the same year as the terrible Pocahontas which led to people subconsciously assuming CGI was an evolved medium than hand drawn. The stars aligned horribly for hand drawn as the drop in quality between TLK and Pocahontas was much worse than an Endgame and Black Widow and even worse than an Endgame and Quantummania. A much stronger film than Pocahontas would have put up a better fight for 2D films.

Edited April 10 by Spidey Freak
Initially thought cannastop was saying Pocahontas was a great film

[cannastop]

5 minutes ago, Spidey Freak said:

 

Umm, no one would accuse Pocahontas of being a 'great movie'. In fact, it was a horrifically dumb, racist and boring movie that put the brakes on the Renaissance revolution pretty badly. Audiences gave it a fair shot before discovering it was poop. Unfortunately for hand drawn films, the far superior Toy Story happened in the same year which led to people subconsciously assuming CGI was an evolved medium. But a much stronger film than Pocahontas would have put up a better fight for 2D films.

Not my point at all. Do you think Pocahontas was intentionally bad? I mean there was the story that The Lion King was seen as the lesser project at Disney at the time. My point is not every movie can be great 

[WittyUsername]

“Just make good movies” is the most useless advice ever. 

[Spidey Freak]

9 minutes ago, cannastop said:

Not my point at all. Do you think Pocahontas was intentionally bad? I mean there was the story that The Lion King was seen as the lesser project at Disney at the time. My point is not every movie can be great 

 

Yeah I edited my original post. It's just that 1995 was very unique in that a very popular medium that was at the pinnacle of its success was instantly cut down because of an unfortunate letdown that happened at the same time as a brand new medium put out a great film. That obviously led to a decline in interest for the successive hand-drawn films (ugh, what could have been if Hunchback had preceeded Pocahontas).

 

But things won't be as extreme as 1995 so Disney needn't worry about taking creative risks. In fact, I'd say Pocahontas wasn't a risk as it was Disney doubling down on everything that THEY thought made them a critical and awards darling at the time.

Edited April 10 by Spidey Freak

[AniNate]

Disney continued making 2D movies for a decade after Pocahontas, and Tarzan and Lilo and Stitch did do pretty well themselves. So I think it's disingenuous to pin the fall of the format on that movie (which was a pretty solid hit in its own right that they still like to promote, regardless of its modern assessment in certain circles). A more likely culprit was the failure of their other more "boy targeted" sci-fi movies in the early 2000s coupled with the disappointing box office performance of Princess and the Frog.

 

 

Edited April 10 by AniNate

[Mojoguy]

The problem is that Wish felt like it was written by AI. There is no passion behind the project, and unremarkable songs and weird animation didn't help. Being a princess musical isn't even a sure thing anymore, because Disney has lost the public's trust. People willing to wait for D+ made it worse.

 

We seem to be in another dark era for Disney.

[MysteryMovieMogul]

7 minutes ago, Spidey Freak said:

 

Yeah I edited my original post. It's just that 1995 was very unique in that a very popular medium that was at the pinnacle of its success was instantly cut down because of an unfortunate letdown that happened at the same time as a brand new medium put out a great film. That obviously led to a decline in interest for the successive hand-drawn films (ugh, what could have been if Hunchback had preceeded Pocahontas).

 

But things won't be as extreme as 1995 so Disney needn't worry about taking creative risks. In fact, I'd say Pocahontas wasn't a risk as it was Disney doubling down on everything that THEY thought made them a critical and awards darling at the time.

Hunchback has only really been truly appreciated in the years since release. Yeah, it's better than Pocahontas, but it was still seen as lesser Disney, especially with the tonal inconsistencies throughout the film, including the Gargoyles.

 

Basically, that film wouldn't have moved the needle either.

[AniNate]

Princess and the Frog has evidently gotten a pretty solid reappraisal in recent years, so I think we could see 2D making a comeback if they get the kind of big bucks they're hoping for from MoZooFro to take risks again

[ZeroHour]

Pocahontas did not kill hand drawn animation at Disney. They had hand drawn hits after that including Mulan, Tarzan, and Lilo & Stitch. It was really Shrek in 2001 (six years after Pocahontas) that set the table for the end of 2D at Disney. That movie was not only a giant computer animated hit, but it mercilessly made fun of the films that were Disney's bread and butter and solidified the impression that Disney animated films were deeply uncool. Big expensive flops that followed in Shrek's wake like Atlantis and Treasure Planet pretty much sealed the deal along with Pixar's continued assent. Whether true or not, the success of computer animated films at Dreamworks and Pixar at that point created the impression in the industry that audiences did not want traditionally animated films. Then of course there's John Lasseter's failed attempt to revive hand drawn with Princess and the Frog and Winnie the Pooh.

[MysteryMovieMogul]

2 minutes ago, Mojoguy said:

The problem is that Wish felt like it was written by AI. There is no passion behind the project, and unremarkable songs and weird animation didn't help. Being a princess musical isn't even a sure thing anymore, because Disney has lost the public's trust. People willing to wait for D+ made it worse.

 

We seem to be in another dark era for Disney.

The film isn't great, but it never feels written by AI. I hate this dumb statement, because I've read it too many times, and I can't take it seriously. The Good Dinosaur, for example, is a film worse than Wish, and even that doesn't feel written by AI.

 

As for being in a dark era? They totally are. But I think it's more about being in a creative rut than on public opinion of Disney. I mean, Disney was here in the early 2000s with Worldwide Box Office numbers lower than Wish's.

[AniNate]

I hesitate to label Frog a failure now with Splash Mountain being rethemed to it and a TV series in the works. Clearly the IP has found a new appreciation, and I think Disney would be legit encouraged to go back to the style once they've built up enough of a safety net again.

[ZeroHour]

3 minutes ago, AniNate said:

I hesitate to label Frog a failure now with Splash Mountain being rethemed to it and a TV series in the works. Clearly the IP has found a new appreciation, and I think Disney would be legit encouraged to go back to the style once they've built up enough of a safety net again.

Princess and the Frog has definitely been a valuable property for Disney but it was not the big comeback hit for hand drawn animation that it was positioned to be when it released in theaters. Funnily enough, I think it shares one big problem with Wish, a forgettable soundtrack without any lasting hit songs.

[Torontofan]

56 minutes ago, WittyUsername said:

“Just make good movies” is the most useless advice ever. 

 

Can you really say a lot of recent disney products were good lol

 

Before marvel was easily averaging good to above avg films non stop

 

Now in phase 4 and 5 only Guardian 3 was universally seen as above avg. 

[Speedorito]

1 hour ago, WittyUsername said:

“Just make good movies” is the most useless advice ever. 

Internet: “Just make good movies”

Studios:
 

[MysteryMovieMogul]

12 minutes ago, Torontofan said:

 

Can you really say a lot of recent disney products were good lol

 

Before marvel was easily averaging good to above avg films non stop

 

Now in phase 4 and 5 only Guardian 3 was universally seen as above avg. 

And I'd argue a good portion of those Phase 1-3 Marvel movies were just as average as the Phase 4 & 5 output. In fact, the only Avengers film I've thought was good was Endgame. I was very baffled by how long the Marvel train successfully chugged along without slowing down.