Dreamworks Animation: What Went Wrong?

[iEye]

So what evidence do you have to say Dreamworks is superior? You've heard and argued with my side (and attacked me personally), so why don't you provide some facts of your own?

I disagree to your thinking on KFP2 but for expediency, I'll leave that to another dayI have never (not even for a second) thought DreamWorks is superior to anyone but I take exception to the oft repeated thinking that it is inferior or lesser of a studio. I wouldn't mind that people thought DWA was a step below Pixar but it isn't fair that some make it seem like they're the ones behind Delgo either. Edited September 12, 2012 by iEye

[iEye]

You obviously disagree with my assertion, so why don't you provide some actual facts instead of attacking me personally?

Where the heck is that coming from?I have never attacked anyone, we're simply having a conversation and that is all. I could go back and site specific examples that demonstrates what you said about sequels and the such but what will that prove. I think you and Whoot for the most part think alike on sequels and I don't see a problem with that. I believe the effort to make an original vs a sequels is about the same but the reward potential for sequels is better. I don't know what all this back and forward has gotten us so let's just say we'll continue this conversation another time.

[AniNate]

I disagree to your thinking on KFP2 but for expediency, I'll leave that to another day

I don't believe I mentioned KFP2 yet in this thread. Admittedly that's a difficult one for me seeing as it made less in America than Cars 2 even though it was ostensibly the better film (Personally, I wasn't a fan of either film). It was however, not as big a franchise to begin with over here as it was OS so I guess you could say that's one instance of people overseas choosing the better option, even though they did contribute to Cars 2 breaking even.

I have never (not even for a second) thought DreamWorks is superior to anyone but I take exception to the oft repeated thinking that it is inferior or lesser of a studio. I wouldn't mind that people thought DWA was a step below Pixar but it isn't fair that some make it seem like they're the ones behind Delgo either.

Excuse me? When did I ever say that? The "step below" Pixar is exactly the argument I've been making this entire time! I thought I made it very clear that I don't in any way think the same way about Dreamworks that other less informed people do. I don't know where you got this sense that I'm part of the extreme "anti-Dreamworks" crowd.

I have never attacked anyone, we're simply having a conversation and that is all. I could go back and site specific examples that demonstrates what you said about sequels and the such but what will that prove. I think you and Whoot for the most part think alike on sequels and I don't see a problem with that. I believe the effort to make an original vs a sequels is about the same but the reward potential for sequels is better.

The "biased" accusations were getting tiresome and it seemed you were just saying that to keep putting me on the defensive. And I can assure you that whatever you think my opinion on sequels is, it is not as extreme as Whoot's (or many others here, for that matter). I'm mostly just against franchises I dislike being continued, and in fact there are some movies that I actively want sequels to that I know I'm probably not getting.However, I don't want a studio to rely on them, to release nothing but sequels, and I don't think their legacy should be defined by them. I admire the effort put into a good sequel but I want to see some new characters and settings in between, and that seems to be what we're getting with both Dreamworks and Pixar's future slates. Edited September 12, 2012 by tribefan695

[iEye]

Excuse me? When did I ever say that? The "step below" Pixar is exactly the argument I've been making this entire time! I thought I made it very clear that I don't in any way think the same way about Dreamworks that other less informed people do. I don't know where you got this sense that I'm part of the extreme "anti-Dreamworks" crowd.

I try to give an inch but as expected you go ahead and take a foot and a half.

[AniNate]

Just so we're clear, my usual preference is to not compare Pixar and Dreamworks at all. They have different objectives and different styles and I think it's important that we have both voices in the industry. And I have an urge to punch anyone who uses "Dreamworks movie" to mean "shitty film". But as of right now Pixar still has the upper hand where it really counts and I'm not going to say otherwise until DW proves with their finished products they can make classic, unforgettable films at the same pace Pixar could.

Said, by me, on the previous page.Can we please just try to meet halfway here? All I've really been trying to say this entire time is that Dreamworks still has not yet reached Pixar-level despite its run of pretty good films. Quality, box office, either way, they're still not there yet, though I'd much rather they do it with the former than the latter. Edited September 12, 2012 by tribefan695

[kayumanggi]

How about DW is the second best animation studio out there.

[iEye]

^ I'd gladly meet you half way but you've left me little wiggle room so we'll just have to agree to disagree.

[whoot]

Damn I missed all the fun. :(I don't know what you all are arguing about. Everyone knows it's Illumination's world now.

[AniNate]

Damn I missed all the fun. :(I don't know what you all are arguing about. Everyone knows it's Illumination's world now.

I don't know either, honestly. Do my opinions really look as inconsistent as iEye seems to think they are? I just don't get it. Edited September 13, 2012 by tribefan695

[whoot]

iEye have had our discussions as well... All I have to say is, this is not all that surprising. It's unfortunate all the threads from the "other place" have been lost forever, there are a few fun ones between he and I there.

[iEye]

Let me be clear to the both of you, it is true that Pixar has ruled in animation but to pretend it will do so forever is bullshit. All I see is cheerleading but let's look at the last two years for example. DW has put out four movies vs. Pixar's two. All of DW movies have cost less to make, they were better received critically and they've made more than Pixar's globally and it took twice the effort with twice the risk without having a mothers skirt to be under.It's fine by me if you want to project Pixar's past and expect the same for it in the future but anecdotal evidence seems to indicate there is turmoil going on at the studio. I think their future slate except for a few are uninspired and unnecessary, JL is spread to thin, directors firings can't be good, one of their best directors isn't interested in animation right now and another director had to fail before he would get back in the chair. I would hardly call all of this shit happening a moral booster for the studio.Look, I have no problem with Pixar cheerleading but why must there be anti-DW sentiment to go along with it? Do the both of those things have to happen in order to make your favorite standout?Tribe, you asked me to meet you half way but I'm curious to know what that half way mark is to you?Edit: This is supposed to be a club for DW but frankly, I think someone should rename it because there seems to be more things said against it instead of for it.Edit2: I am pretty busy at the moment so if there is a reply to my post, don't expect a quick response.

Edited September 14, 2012 by iEye

[shayhiri]

Why are we talking houses - and not movies?Pixar has good movies - and pretty boring ones.DW has my favourite animated movies/trilogies ever - and some total misfires.So it's a case by case movie thing, not corporate policies.

[AniNate]

Why are we talking houses - and not movies?...So it's a case by case movie thing, not corporate policies.

This all started when I said there was a chance some of these movies on Dreamworks' slate could flop and then was accused of hypocrisy for not showing that same kind of not-completely-confident perspective on Pixar's lineup. Pixar's films may have bigger budgets, but the fact is their popularity and quality is relatively bigger and more consistent, so I assume the odds to be more in their favor than in Dreamworks'. Edited September 13, 2012 by tribefan695

[shayhiri]

Maybe. But the quantity is definitely on DW's side.With only one sorry flick a year Pixar is not ALLOWED misfires. And it already had one of the worst sequels I've seen (Cars 2, of course) which has me horrified at the prospect of Monsters 2 and Nemo 2.Fortunately I loved Brave. But I'm not seeing anything worth loving on their plate (save maybe the dinosaur flick). So it seems DW is gaining the upper hand - if it's only with quantity.

Edited September 13, 2012 by shayhiri

[AniNate]

Maybe. But the quantity is definitely on DW's side.

That's the problem. They're releasing so many films that a fatigue could potentially set in, meaning less room for mediocrity.

[shayhiri]

Oh, if/when they release a mediocre one, I'll be glad to see it bomb (which it won't, sadly).But I'm hoping the good ones will be more and will more than make up for it.

Edited September 14, 2012 by shayhiri

[whoot]

Let me be clear to the both of you, it is true that Pixar has ruled in animation but to pretend it will do so forever is bullshit. All I see is cheerleading but let's look at the last two years for example. DW has put out four movies vs. Pixar's two. All of DW movies have cost less to make, they were better received critically and they've made more than Pixar's globally and it took twice the effort with twice the risk without having a mothers skirt to be under.It's fine by me if you want to project Pixar's past and expect the same for it in the future but anecdotal evidence seems to indicate there is turmoil going on at the studio. I think their future slate except for a few are uninspired and unnecessary, JL is spread to thin, directors firings can't be good, one of their best directors isn't interested in animation right now and another director had to fail before he would get back in the chair. I would hardly call all of this shit happening a moral booster for the studio.Look, I have no problem with Pixar cheerleading but why must there be anti-DW sentiment to go along with it? Do the both of those things have to happen in order to make your favorite standout?Tribe, you asked me to meet you half way but I'm curious to know what that half way mark is to you?Edit: This is supposed to be a club for DW but frankly, I think someone should rename it because there seems to be more things said against it instead of for it.Edit2: I am pretty busy at the moment so if there is a reply to my post, don't expect a quick response.

Okay well this is probably what tribe meant and what I alluded to and I didn't want to go there again but fine.Had you been reading any of our posts in the Pixar club or Cars 2 threads, you'd see that we pretty much said what you said. What is befuddling is when something like this comes up, you start pigeonholing us as these Über Pixar fanatics who trash DWA all the time, completely disregarding what we've said in the past, and ignoring that when we bring it up to prove your point.Just chillax. We've said DWA was great. There's a lot of getting worked up over minor differences here.

[iEye]

Oh, so you get where Tribe is coming from so why not take a stab at where I'm coming from?

[whoot]

Oh, so you get where Tribe is coming from so why not take a stab at where I'm coming from?

I get where tribe is coming from because you've gotten into a similar thing with me before. I know where you're coming from because after one of our discussions like this and things finally cooled down you said that it just irks you when Pixar fans say the same stuff over and over again and you just get passionate about that, that's all. All I said was I've been where tribe was, and I don't want to get dragged into another one of these because it's late and it's just the same mess over again and the animation regulars here have heard my say hundreds of times already...

[iEye]

Wrong. Why don't you try to read what was said before sticking your nose in this and taking sides.Edit: BTW, I wasn't involved much on the boards when Cars2 came out so you assume wrong.

Edited September 14, 2012 by iEye