DoctorWho Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 I am watching season 2 right now and will see the first episode of season 3 also this weekend (saw season 1 a few years ago). When do the next 2 episodes of season 3 come out? Episode 2 airs tomorrow, and ep 3 probably next Sunday. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJohn Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 They spent 90 minutes fucking up with the fans, and we will never know how he survived. I just hope Moriarty also survived somehow and Irene Adler must be back someday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChD Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 Still, the part where Sherlock talks to that guy, telling him how he survived? How did you know it wasn't the truth? I mean, maybe I missed something, but he actually told him how he survived and the clues pointed to that exact same scenario since two years ago, when he died. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJohn Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 We will never know for sure if that was the way he survived. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChD Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 We will never know for sure if that was the way he survived. I'm asking you how you know he wasn't telling the truth when he told that guy ... That's everything I'm asking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grim22 Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 I'm asking you how you know he wasn't telling the truth when he told that guy ... That's everything I'm asking. Well, here we go [*] Because of some clues present in this episode like the coat. Sherlock says to Anderson that he has many coats but it's implied that there is only one (when Blud (or Anthea) gives the coat back to Sherlock). [*] We can see in the Reichenbach Fall the sniper walking away on it's own and not being arrested or called off by Mycroft. [*] Because Anderson has some good point: the plan seems too elaborate to work correctly, the bike might not have hit John or he could have moved and see the air bag. [*] If Mycroft could so easily stop the killers there is no point in Sherlock faking his death. [*] I have a hard time believing Sherlock had to lie to John but could trust 25 random tramps. [*] This version turns Moriarty from a mastermind to a puppet. He was supposed to be Sherlock nemesis. this explanation means that he was manipulated all along and therefore not Sherlock's equal. That also means that Sherlock was acting the all time during the Reichenbach Fall. That doesn't seem right. [*] If the Holmes brothers controlled everything, Sherlock didn't need to call for Molly's help at the last minute. (as seen in the Reichenbach Fall) [*] Anyone near the hospital (a pedestrian, someone looking at his window, Moriarty sniper(s) and Moriarty himself) would have seen Sherlock faking his death. In fact the only person fooled with this plan is John. That doesn't make sense. I think it's hope, more than certainty. The explanation was good enough, but given that this is one of the biggest cliffhangers in modern TV drama, I think they'd be foolish to throw it away in a single episode - I'd milk it over the course of the series. In addition to what has been listed, there's one big point that stands out for me: John doesn't know how it's done yet. I'm inclined to believe that we won't know the truth until he does. Perhaps that means he'll never be told, and chalk it up to "Who the hell cares anyway", and we'll be expected to do the same, but I have a hard time believing the explanation Sherlock gave to Anderson simply because it was given to Anderson and not John. I really really hope Moffat and Gatiss give us THE explanation. If Anderson had not gone "But that is not possible" we wouldn't even be having this conversation - everyone would say ok and move on. But no... Moffat had to go and play his BS ambiguity card which he always does. I personally feel that all the fans who waited 2 years deserved a lot better than this trainwreck of an episode with the cop out of not even providing an explanation. I liked the episode while watching it first, but the 2 subsequent rewatches have shown me that the creators were more interested in trolling everyone than actually providing an answer. We didn't need the multiple explanations - we needed ONE. That was it, one explanation which tells us how they did it. Instead, this episode makes me think that they never actually planned anything - Sherlock is alive, we will crowdsource the explanation. I really hope they tell us how he actually did it before series 3 ends, because on rewatching it people won't have the 2 year break between series 2 and 3. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoolioD1 Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 People seem kinda pissed off at the second episode on my twitter feed but I kinda loved it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChD Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 It's pretty clear they do not focus on solving cases so much anymore, but on character development, which I can't say is bad. This was a good episode overall, with the best scene being easily the drunken investigation. The clues for each object around that restaurant were hilaripus : chair, leather, sit, ????, sleeeeeeeep. I laughed so hard during that scene. Another good moment was Sherlock freaking out during his speech when everyone started tearing up. The cases were pretty meh, but that doesn't bother me seeing that some character development is needed, especially when things like death, ressurection, marriage and pregnancy happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusader Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 I thought it was an improvement over the first episode's case It build up slowly but to be honest it did start around the third of the episode ( the first one started around the middle ) and I loved the part when he chatted with all the women at the same time ... I liked it 2 cases that merged into one and then had a total payoff in the end ... feels much more like the 'old' Sherlock ... btw I also thought the Irene Adler cameo was cool as hell Still though like everyone noticed so far the show kinda shifted its focus and lost that 'anyone can tune in at any time and like it' thing it had ... if you're not a fan by now this won't do anything to convince you to join the cult ... however like I said unlike the first ep this one's emotional moments kinda clicked much better and I liked Sherlock's human side much more The start with the gang that always gets away is obviously gonna have to do womething with the main villain who'll come out in the third ep Sigh ... over so soon after next week's ep its gonna be a loooooongs ass wait till the show comes back Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusader Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kgTINfCELio promo for the finale ... looking good Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusader Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Damn I just skimmed through some comments and people are really ripping it to pieces ... 'jumped the shark' is the term most often used If you hold it against stuff like a 'The Great Game' or ' A Scandal in Blegravia' then yeah they kinda lost themselves with self congratulation ... we didn't really need so much filler in these first 2 episodes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grim22 Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Damn I just skimmed through some comments and people are really ripping it to pieces ... 'jumped the shark' is the term most often used If you hold it against stuff like a 'The Great Game' or ' A Scandal in Blegravia' then yeah they kinda lost themselves with self congratulation ... we didn't really need so much filler in these first 2 episodes Best explanation I have seen, and it captures perfectly what has bothered me about the first 2 episodes (and this is not even counting the cop out explanation) The problem is the way characterisation is happening. The series protagonist has always been John, we see the world through his eyes as the everyman that meets/observes this force of nature in Sherlock Holmes. We get to see the external workings of Sherlock and his sociopathy, warts and all. This works as a story because we can use characters around him to contrast his reactions to situations. Another loose adaption, House, did this to an excellent degree too. We are shown his genius as both a super power but a terrible burden that alienates him. Importantly though, we are kept distant from Sherlock to add to the theme and the plot carries on because it HAS to carry on, it's the only thing important to Sherlock. Series 3 has essentially totally reinvented the character which is a disappointment to people who already enjoyed the show. Above this, they've done it in such a way that I wonder if they ever really knew WHY Sherlock was such an enigmatic character. The series protagonist is now Sherlock, instead of seeing his journey through the lense of John we see it as a much more personal journey. I see what they were attempting here, they wanted to shake up the show to not be formulaic and build the bounds of a relationship. The problem is that they have now humanised Sherlock and we see his decision making and emotional centre internally. This is a problem because Sherlock the character cannot be well understood, an enigma, and interesting. They have to pick two out of the three. It also makes his deductions less interesting because we see how massive the leaps the writers are making are. The previous series allowed the idea that Sherlock was smarter than the viewer and was doing stuff in his head that he didn't tell us about. Now we are living inside Sherlock's head instead of inside John's, he is essentially a psychic magician. Yes, we get to know Sherlock more in this series than the previous two but this is a Bad Thing. His genius comes from his unrelatable relatability. This is just making him relatable. Without the John lens and the understated respect, they now have to find other ways to build this which are essentially the "comedy" scenes where they try to show you that they are great friends and Sherlock actually saying it out loud. This fills up too much of the episode to fit everything else into it with a deep, intricate plot so they leave huge gaps. TL;DR - People are pissed because the entire focus of the show has changed and there doesn't seem to be any reason for this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tawasal Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Glad this is back and I hope they make them more often, the wait inbetween is freaking too long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rukaio101 Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Damn I just skimmed through some comments and people are really ripping it to pieces ... 'jumped the shark' is the term most often used Not sure what comments you're reading, but most places I've checked have been pretty damn positive about the episode. Sure there are some naysayers, but there always are for pretty much anything and they're pretty definitely in the minority. Anyway, reading through grim's link, the crux of his argument seems to be here. Quote Yes, we get to know Sherlock more in this series than the previous two but this is a Bad Thing. His genius comes from his unrelatable relatability. This is just making him relatable. Why? Why is making him relatable such a bad thing? And don't give me that 'his genius comes from being unrelatable' crap. His genius comes from being a fucking genius. Just because we see every step he takes to work things out doesn't mean the conclusions he comes to are any less impressive. You claim it makes him a 'psychic magician', I'd say the opposite. He was more of a psychic magician before, just coming up with the answers out of nowhere like magic. This episode makes his deduction more realistic, with him running through the list of possiblities and making smaller deductions before arriving at a conclusion. While it's true that humanising does make him lose some of his mystique, that's a price I'm okay paying in return for making him a more fleshed-out realistic character like the show has done. As for your claim that the 'entire focus of the show has changed', I'd strongly challenge that. I believe it was Mark Gatiss who said that Sherlock isn't a detective show but a show about a detective. Pretty much every episode previous to this (except very arguably the Blind Banker) has explored a side of Sherlock's character and how he reacts when presented with new stimuli, like love or fear. All this series has done has moved it to the forefront more for completely understandable reasons. Major events are happening in Sherlock's life, hence there's going to be a lot to explore. If anything, this whole thing started with the Reinenbach Fall. There was very little mystery in that, instead focusing on the circumstances that lead to Sherlock's (faked) suicide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riczhang Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Damn I just skimmed through some comments and people are really ripping it to pieces ... 'jumped the shark' is the term most often used If you hold it against stuff like a 'The Great Game' or ' A Scandal in Blegravia' then yeah they kinda lost themselves with self congratulation ... we didn't really need so much filler in these first 2 episodes Well if you've been reading the guardian's comments then yeah. But then again, they rip everything from Tom Daley's Splash to 12 Years a Slave. I strongly believe that season 3 is by far the best season. The first two seasons have concentrated on mystery solving and that shtick was bound to get old at some point. Season three is much more about character development and being a character study which IMO is a turn for the much better. Though I do expect episode 3 to be a return to a Scandal in Belgravia/Reichenbach Fall type of thing. (Also, I'd mention something about taste and education, but I'd rather not offend anyone this morning.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoolioD1 Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 I didn't like the first one a huge amount but the second episode is really great. It was funny, sweet, and the mystery actually came together very well imo. Certainly leaps and bounds better than the middle children of the first two seasons, which were by far the weakest episodes. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riczhang Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 I didn't like the first one a huge amount but the second episode is really great. It was funny, sweet, and the mystery actually came together very well imo. Certainly leaps and bounds better than the middle children of the first two seasons, which were by far the weakest episodes. This. The first episode was really good imo, but the second one was a lot greater than the first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tawasal Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Yeah this season, they are more focused on the characters than in the last 2 seasons. And it's like we are getting John story through Sherlock's POV, and this season Sherlock is a softy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoctorWho Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Man, I loved the second episode. I laughed so hard my jaw hurt at the scenes with them drunk. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killimano3 Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 (edited) I didn't like the first one a huge amount but the second episode is really great. It was funny, sweet, and the mystery actually came together very well imo. Certainly leaps and bounds better than the middle children of the first two seasons, which were by far the weakest episodes. I liked episode 2 of the second season quite a bit Edited January 8, 2014 by Killimano3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
