Fanboy Wars Thread: Personal Attacks not allowed | With Digital Fur Technology

[ZattMurdock]

Just now, Walt Disney said:

There's no nuance. You said what you said. You didn't want Marvel to get the rights back. You wanted them to make movies with Sony as a partner. You used the animated series as one of your reasons. I just hope that I can find what you said.

I can try to help you. Wait. 

[Walt Disney]

1 minute ago, iJackSparrow said:

I'm pretty sure I've apologised for that time and time again, but I still mantain that wanting a film to fail so Marvel would get the rights back isn't something that I'd say I'm okay with. And I'm the biggest asshole against Fox X-Men films that has ever criticized those films here. I don't root against them because I feel it's a waste of time. I think we just started in the wrong foot, because I'm pretty much against this kind of behavior in general, you know? Does that makes sense to you? 

No. But I guess you can say anything 5 years later. If I can find the posts, I will share them.

[ZattMurdock]

I've found what I've said to you back in 2012 and I'm giving you the links and exact quotes:

 

 

Let me bold that if it makes sense to you now, maybe:

 

Quote

Spider-Man bombing won't make Sony reverting the rights to Disney/Marvel. It's too valueable of a property for them to let go this way. I want TASM to succeed exactly because I want to see amazing Spider-Man movies and, hopefully, Marvel and the other studios getting some sort of agreement about how to make these characters coexist in the same universe. If it doesn't happen, well, if TASM is a brilliant movie, why the hell to boycott it? This isn't smart thinking in my opinion.

 

 

 

Quote

The Iron Horse, Arachnid is right. If Disney and Sony discover that it's on their best interest to make these movies together, they will do that. I don't want TASM to fail because they seem to have finally nailed Spider-Man's and Peter Parker's character and the movie looks really good so far. And while I can understand baumer's rationale for being a spoiled-little-baby-that-we'll-turn-into-a-Webb's-Spider-Man-lover, thinking that a Spider-Man reboot should bomb so the movie rights are reverted to Disney/Marvel is not only naive thinking, it's just plain dumb. Explain it to me, what "Spiderman" - it's Spider-Man, but I'll let it pass this time - being with Marvel would make you watch the movie? You seem to have created an account just to talk about boycottying Spider-Man's movie because you want to see the character back with Marvel, explain me your reasons for that. Explain me what could possibly Marvel do that Sony isn't doing right now, casting a director and an actor passionate with the source material and going wild with the Spidey mythos.

 

Quite ominous, if I might add.  

I very much stand by these things, and I'm not sure how they aren't in line with how I think right now. It turns out that while TASM was decent, TASM2 was indeed a mess. Without Marvel Studios, we wouldn't be getting good Spider-Man films at all. Context is key, and with that said...

 

 

 

 

Quote

But that's not exactly my point, my point is that just like B&R, SM3 left an awful taste on the general audience and fanboys mouth. And then it came the brilliant Batman Begins movie. A reboot, a reboot that just like TASM, it wasn't exactly marketed as a reboot, but it was, and it was fucking brilliant.  Can you imagine what would've happened if BB bombed? We'd never get a TDK, let alone a TDKR. 

 

What brings to my point about how dumb, naive, not informed  your opinion is, or what I suspect, with second intentions. See, you're clever. I can see that, and I'm praising you for it. You're so clever that I can't fathom how you'd think that's a good thing for Spider-Man movies, because a bomb, while it could give the rights back to Disney/Marvel, it would make for at least more ten years until we maybe get a Spider-Man movie, and that wouldn't be a guarantee of succes, let alone a good movie. 

 

I think that trying to explain it to you this or the other members of the board sort of insulting to your intelligence and others, but here it goes: Spider-Man bombing wouldn't be a good business for Marvel because just like you've pointed out when I said that maybe Fox would buy the movie rights,  buying a bomb is a bad idea. Do you really want Marvel to get the rights back so bad that you're willing to risk not have a good Spider-Man movie for the next 5-10 years , and worst than that, without not even knowing if Webb's Spider-Man is a good movie or not? Do you really think it's a good thing for comic book movies to have arguably the most popular superhero out there to have a bomb in its curriculum?

 

Wishing to The Amazing Spider-Man to bomb is as bad as wishing The Dark Knight Rises to bomb, these movies have yet to prove how much there is a real market for well made movies based on comic books. This would affect all of them. Luckily, regardless of your "boycott", no matter how dumb and silly it is, The Avengers has proven that there is an avid market for larger than life superhero movies that are family friendly, pretty much what Spider-Man is all about. As a wise Colonel once said, I still believe in heroes. And as a certain legendary director recently said, I don't believe in transcending the genre, I believe in the genre. The Amazing Spider-Man will be the ultimate sleeper hit, regardless of boycotts and the naysayers. I'm rooting for ALLcomic book movies coming out the summer. But I confess that I'm more partial to our friendly neighborhood Spider-Man.

 

This is a very special year for comic book movies. I don't think we should be rooting for one or another, let alone rooting against it. But this is a free World, so whatever floats your boat, mate. But I bet you are aware of all this, I'm just trying to clarify where I'm coming from.

 

 

I was totally wrong about this. Not sure if I ever in fact called you an idiot, I think I sound fairly polite here while still very much stupid, so if anything, I'd like to apologise if I ever called you an idiot OR if you ever felt that's what I meant if something I've said was tone deaf or anything. 

 

I'm kinda proud of younger and stupider me though. Judging by the last part that I've bolded, I feel pretty good about always having my heart in the right place when it comes to these films. I'm sorry if I was an asshole to you OR if I came off that way to you somehow. With that said, yeah, what I've said to you seem to be pretty much what I think and what Cocho was trying to explain it to you. Not sure what you didn't understand. Maybe it's because it's five years ago and you are remembering differently, I guess. 

[Walt Disney]

23 minutes ago, iJackSparrow said:

 

 

I'm kinda proud of younger and stupider me though. Judging by the last part that I've bolded, I feel pretty good about always having my heart in the right place when it comes to these films. I'm sorry if I was an asshole to you OR if I came off that way to you somehow. With that said, yeah, what I've said to you seem to be pretty much what I think and what Cocho was trying to explain it to you. Not sure what you didn't understand. Maybe it's because it's five years ago and you are remembering differently, I guess. 

I can't figure out how to quote the part of your post that I want to, so I will put it in quotation marks instead: "thinking that a Spider-Man reboot should bomb so the movie rights are reverted to Disney/Marvel is not only naive thinking, it's just plain dumb. Explain it to me, what "Spiderman" - it's Spider-Man, but I'll let it pass this time - being with Marvel would make you watch the movie? You seem to have created an account just to talk about boycottying Spider-Man's movie because you want to see the character back with Marvel, explain me your reasons for that. Explain me what could possibly Marvel do that Sony isn't doing right now, casting a director and an actor passionate with the source material and going wild with the Spidey mythos."

 

You clearly are saying that you want Sony to keep the Spider-Man film rights. You are NOT saying that you want the film rights to go back to Disney/Marvel. Read the last few bolded sentences again. You wanted the film rights to stay with Sony. I mean it is clear as day. I remember it correctly, and your own words from five years ago proves it.

[Walt Disney]

38 minutes ago, iJackSparrow said:

 

 

I'm kinda proud of younger and stupider me though. Judging by the last part that I've bolded, I feel pretty good about always having my heart in the right place when it comes to these films. I'm sorry if I was an asshole to you OR if I came off that way to you somehow. With that said, yeah, what I've said to you seem to be pretty much what I think and what Cocho was trying to explain it to you. Not sure what you didn't understand. Maybe it's because it's five years ago and you are remembering differently, I guess. 

I love how you didn't post this post of yours (I know it is long, but I can't figure out how to link to it, so here goes). And again, this proves that YOU did not want Spider-Man's film rights to go back to Disney/Marvel:

 

"An attorney? Awesome, I'm a brazilian lawyer! With that said, while I'm quite fit to analyze contracts, we don't have any contracts to analyze here, have we?

 

About your opinion being "dumb" and "naive", I stand behind what I've said. See, Batman & Robin wasn't a bomb. It was a profitable movie, was it awful? Yes it was, I don't even like to think about it, but it was a profitable disaster. Pretty much like SM3, the difference being that SM3 was even more of a bigger box office success, regardless how awful that movie is.

 

If you are a comic book geek, you'd be aware by now how unfaithful to the material source Raimi's trilogy was, and how much of an abomination SM3 truly  was. It botched the franchise and ruined everything that could come afterwards. I mean, Sandman as Uncle Ben's killer, haven't we learn how stupid that plot was with Batman 89's Joker? There was no turning back, the trilogy was doomed. And don't blame Sony for it, Raimi and his brother were the ones behind all of these "brilliant" ideas. He wanted to make Anne Hathaway Felicia Toomes, the daughter of Adrian Toomes for fucks sake. Can you imagine that? A Vulturess? REALLY?

 

But that's not exactly my point, my point is that just like B&R, SM3 left an awful taste on the general audience and fanboys mouth. And then it came the brilliant Batman Begins movie. A reboot, a reboot that just like TASM, it wasn't exactly marketed as a reboot, but it was, and it was fucking brilliant.  Can you imagine what would've happened if BB bombed? We'd never get a TDK, let alone a TDKR. 

 

What brings to my point about how dumb, naive, not informed  your opinion is, or what I suspect, with second intentions. See, you're clever. I can see that, and I'm praising you for it. You're so clever that I can't fathom how you'd think that's a good thing for Spider-Man movies, because a bomb, while it could give the rights back to Disney/Marvel, it would make for at least more ten years until we maybe get a Spider-Man movie, and that wouldn't be a guarantee of succes, let alone a good movie. 

 

I think that trying to explain it to you this or the other members of the board sort of insulting to your intelligence and others, but here it goes: Spider-Man bombing wouldn't be a good business for Marvel because just like you've pointed out when I said that maybe Fox would buy the movie rights,  buying a bomb is a bad idea. Do you really want Marvel to get the rights back so bad that you're willing to risk not have a good Spider-Man movie for the next 5-10 years , and worst than that, without not even knowing if Webb's Spider-Man is a good movie or not? Do you really think it's a good thing for comic book movies to have arguably the most popular superhero out there to have a bomb in its curriculum?

 

Wishing to The Amazing Spider-Man to bomb is as bad as wishing The Dark Knight Rises to bomb, these movies have yet to prove how much there is a real market for well made movies based on comic books. This would affect all of them. Luckily, regardless of your "boycott", no matter how dumb and silly it is, The Avengers has proven that there is an avid market for larger than life superhero movies that are family friendly, pretty much what Spider-Man is all about. As a wise Colonel once said, I still believe in heroes. And as a certain legendary director recently said, I don't believe in transcending the genre, I believe in the genre. The Amazing Spider-Man will be the ultimate sleeper hit, regardless of boycotts and the naysayers. I'm rooting for ALL comic book movies coming out the summer. But I confess that I'm more partial to our friendly neighborhood Spider-Man."

 

 

Edited September 16, 2017 by Walt Disney

[ZattMurdock]

Just now, Walt Disney said:

I can't figure out how to quote the part of your post that I want to, so I will put it in quotation marks instead: "thinking that a Spider-Man reboot should bomb so the movie rights are reverted to Disney/Marvel is not only naive thinking, it's just plain dumb. Explain it to me, what "Spiderman" - it's Spider-Man, but I'll let it pass this time - being with Marvel would make you watch the movie? You seem to have created an account just to talk about boycottying Spider-Man's movie because you want to see the character back with Marvel, explain me your reasons for that. Explain me what could possibly Marvel do that Sony isn't doing right now, casting a director and an actor passionate with the source material and going wild with the Spidey mythos."

 

You clearly are saying that you want Sony to keep the Spider-Man film rights. You are NOT saying that you want the film rights to go back to Disney/Marvel. Read the last few bolded sentences again. You wanted the film rights to stay with Sony. I mean it is clear as day. I remember it correctly, and your own words from five years ago proves it.

I don't see it that way. And I'm not sure how I could. The sentiment and context of what I'm saying was just that I was scare that if TASM films bombed, Marvel Studios would take ten years to reboot Spider-Man. Obviously that's not what happened. What I've replied to you the very first time literally says that. So I'm not sure why you are so adamant on saying that I' didn't want Marvel Studios working with Sony, it's pretty obvious there that I wanted that, but didn't want TASM films to bomb or suck. Once again, nuance.

 

I'm pretty sure that anyone seeing this discussion is laughing because it's completely pointless, but it's pretty clear that what I was rooting back in May '12 was that TASM would be a good film. It was decent, with an actor that could grow with the character but things went off rails. My point back then - one that I was wrong and I've said that on my previous post - was that I was afraid that if TASM didn't succeed, we wouldn't get Spider-Man films for 5-10 years:

 

Quote

Do you really want Marvel to get the rights back so bad that you're willing to risk not have a good Spider-Man movie for the next 5-10 years , and worst than that, without not even knowing if Webb's Spider-Man is a good movie or not? Do you really think it's a good thing for comic book movies to have arguably the most popular superhero out there to have a bomb in its curriculum?

 

I was wrong about that. I just wanted a good Spider-Man film, hopefully that would make Marvel Studios and Sony work together. That's literally on the first post I've replied to you. I couldn't care less if Sony kept or not the rights. I just think you thought that was the case for so long that even when confronted with what I actually said it you can't see it. But it's actually pretty simple. I wanted good Spider-Man films. Just like I want good X-Men films and only got truly satisfied so far with Deadpool. Not really that hard to understand. 

[ZattMurdock]

3 minutes ago, Walt Disney said:

I love how you didn't post this post of yours (I know it is long, but I can't figure out how to link to it, so here goes). And again, this proves that YOU did not want Spider-Man's film rights to go back to Disney/Marvel:

 

"An attorney? Awesome, I'm a brazilian lawyer! With that said, while I'm quite fit to analyze contracts, we don't have any contracts to analyze here, have we?

 

About your opinion being "dumb" and "naive", I stand behind what I've said. See, Batman & Robin wasn't a bomb. It was a profitable movie, was it awful? Yes it was, I don't even like to think about it, but it was a profitable disaster. Pretty much like SM3, the difference being that SM3 was even more of a bigger box office success, regardless how awful that movie is.

 

If you are a comic book geek, you'd be aware by now how unfaithful to the material source Raimi's trilogy was, and how much of an abomination SM3 truly  was. It botched the franchise and ruined everything that could come afterwards. I mean, Sandman as Uncle Ben's killer, haven't we learn how stupid that plot was with Batman 89's Joker? There was no turning back, the trilogy was doomed. And don't blame Sony for it, Raimi and his brother were the ones behind all of these "brilliant" ideas. He wanted to make Anne Hathaway Felicia Toomes, the daughter of Adrian Toomes for fucks sake. Can you imagine that? A Vulturess? REALLY?

 

But that's not exactly my point, my point is that just like B&R, SM3 left an awful taste on the general audience and fanboys mouth. And then it came the brilliant Batman Begins movie. A reboot, a reboot that just like TASM, it wasn't exactly marketed as a reboot, but it was, and it was fucking brilliant.  Can you imagine what would've happened if BB bombed? We'd never get a TDK, let alone a TDKR. 

 

What brings to my point about how dumb, naive, not informed  your opinion is, or what I suspect, with second intentions. See, you're clever. I can see that, and I'm praising you for it. You're so clever that I can't fathom how you'd think that's a good thing for Spider-Man movies, because a bomb, while it could give the rights back to Disney/Marvel, it would make for at least more ten years until we maybe get a Spider-Man movie, and that wouldn't be a guarantee of succes, let alone a good movie. 

 

I think that trying to explain it to you this or the other members of the board sort of insulting to your intelligence and others, but here it goes: Spider-Man bombing wouldn't be a good business for Marvel because just like you've pointed out when I said that maybe Fox would buy the movie rights,  buying a bomb is a bad idea. Do you really want Marvel to get the rights back so bad that you're willing to risk not have a good Spider-Man movie for the next 5-10 years , and worst than that, without not even knowing if Webb's Spider-Man is a good movie or not? Do you really think it's a good thing for comic book movies to have arguably the most popular superhero out there to have a bomb in its curriculum?

 

Wishing to The Amazing Spider-Man to bomb is as bad as wishing The Dark Knight Rises to bomb, these movies have yet to prove how much there is a real market for well made movies based on comic books. This would affect all of them. Luckily, regardless of your "boycott", no matter how dumb and silly it is, The Avengers has proven that there is an avid market for larger than life superhero movies that are family friendly, pretty much what Spider-Man is all about. As a wise Colonel once said, I still believe in heroes. And as a certain legendary director recently said, I don't believe in transcending the genre, I believe in the genre. The Amazing Spider-Man will be the ultimate sleeper hit, regardless of boycotts and the naysayers. I'm rooting for ALL comic book movies coming out the summer. But I confess that I'm more partial to our friendly neighborhood Spider-Man."

 

 

But I did posted. I gave you a direct link for that post. Anyone could just enter it and see it. Not sure what point you are trying to make, but this is getting kinda scary. @Cochofles? @Harpospoke? @TalismanRing? @druv10?  Halp?  

[ZattMurdock]

And as for me being as lawyer, it's pretty common knowledge at this point that I in fact am one. Hell, there are people here that I'm friends on Facebook. Ask @Squadron Leader Tele if you want confirmation. 

Edited September 16, 2017 by iJackSparrow

[Walt Disney]

2 minutes ago, iJackSparrow said:

I don't see it that way. And I'm not sure how I could. The sentiment and context of what I'm saying was just that I was scare that if TASM films bombed, Marvel Studios would take ten years to reboot Spider-Man. Obviously that's not what happened. What I've replied to you the very first time literally says that. So I'm not sure why you are so adamant on saying that I' didn't want Marvel Studios working with Sony, it's pretty obvious there that I wanted that, but didn't want TASM films to bomb or suck. Once again, nuance.

 

I'm pretty sure that anyone seeing this discussion is laughing because it's completely pointless, but it's pretty clear that what I was rooting back in May '12 was that TASM would be a good film. It was decent, with an actor that could grow with the character but things went off rails. My point back then - one that I was wrong and I've said that on my previous post - was that I was afraid that if TASM didn't succeed, we wouldn't get Spider-Man films for 5-10 years:

 

 

I was wrong about that. I just wanted a good Spider-Man film, hopefully that would make Marvel Studios and Sony work together. That's literally on the first post I've replied to you. I couldn't care less if Sony kept or not the rights. I just think you thought that was the case for so long that even when confronted with what I actually said it you can't see it. But it's actually pretty simple. I wanted good Spider-Man films. Just like I want good X-Men films and only got truly satisfied so far with Deadpool. Not really that hard to understand. 

Right. You couldn't care if Sony kept the film rights or not. So lets stop with this idea that you were a champion for Disney/Marvel getting the film rights back. You weren't. You say now that you didn't care. Although, all your words are geared towards wanting Sony to keep the film rights and Marvel not being able to make as good of a Spider-Man movie. Either way, you were not beating the drum for Marvel to get the film rights back for Spider-Man. I was and you were fighting me on it.

[aabattery]

Why do you guys care lmao

 

[Walt Disney]

3 minutes ago, iJackSparrow said:

But I did posted. I gave you a direct link for that post. Anyone could just enter it and see it. Not sure what point you are trying to make, but this is getting kinda scary. @Cochofles? @Harpospoke? @TalismanRing? @druv10?  Halp?  

It is getting scary because you're actually lying about the very words in front of both of us and what they mean. I proved my point, so I don't feel the need to search the other threads to find more of this.

[ZattMurdock]

Just now, Walt Disney said:

Right. You couldn't care if Sony kept the film rights or not. So lets stop with this idea that you were a champion for Disney/Marvel getting the film rights back. You weren't. You say now that you didn't care. Although, all your words are geared towards wanting Sony to keep the film rights and Marvel not being able to make as good of a Spider-Man movie. Either way, you were not beating the drum for Marvel to get the film rights back for Spider-Man. I was and you were fighting me on it.

...

 

That's just a very weird conversation. I just don't even know what to tell you anymore. It's pretty much on everything I've said it, but if it's so important to you, you win, I guess? 

[MrGamer]

1 minute ago, aabattery said:

Why do you guys care lmao

 

DON'T RUIN THIS! 

[Walt Disney]

Just now, aabattery said:

Why do you guys care lmao

 

Because of how he was 5 years ago. So it bothers me that he is going to pretend that he was on the other side of the argument. If he was actually on my side of the argument, I wouldn't have had all of the annoying flame wars that I had with him.

[Walt Disney]

1 minute ago, iJackSparrow said:

...

 

That's just a very weird conversation. I just don't even know what to tell you anymore. It's pretty much on everything I've said it, but if it's so important to you, you win, I guess? 

I don't even know what you're talking about. You never said you wanted Marvel to get the film rights back.

[ZattMurdock]

Just now, Walt Disney said:

It is getting scary because you're actually lying about the very words in front of both of us and what they mean. I proved my point, so I don't feel the need to search the other threads to find more of this.

... DUDE. I've always been an advocate of Marvel Studios getting access to all their characters. I'm not an Walt Disney stockholder so I couldn't care less if they own something or not, but I've always wanted to see all these characters together in the same universe in the big screen. It's well documented. I don't know why you are going so hard against me and saying that I was lying, I'm not sure what is happening, and I'm sorry if you have so much bad blood against me that you are seeing red and not thinking straight. I don't know what to tell you. I know what is true to me, my posts back me up, even the ones you claimed I was offensive to you - I'd argue that you are being way more offensive towards me than I ever was on any of those posts, but whatever - it's pretty clear that I had what I believed to be these characters best interests at heart. I wanted to see a strong MCU, and I'm happy that we all got to see that. No hard feelings at all.

 

I'm just dropping this discussion because it doesn't make sense whatsoever in my mind. 

[ZattMurdock]

What the hell is happening and why the weirdest shit happens to me? It's a question that I ask myself every single day. 

[Walt Disney]

Just now, iJackSparrow said:

... DUDE. I've always been an advocate of Marvel Studios getting access to all their characters. I'm not an Walt Disney stockholder so I couldn't care less if they own something or not, but I've always wanted to see all these characters together in the same universe in the big screen. It's well documented. I don't know why you are going so hard against me and saying that I was lying, I'm not sure what is happening, and I'm sorry if you have so much bad blood against me that you are seeing red and not thinking straight. I don't know what to tell you. I know what is true to me, my posts back me up, even the ones you claimed I was offensive to you - I'd argue that you are being way more offensive towards me than I ever was on any of those posts, but whatever - it's pretty clear that I had what I believed to be these characters best interests at heart. I wanted to see a strong MCU, and I'm happy that we all got to see that. No hard feelings at all.

 

I'm just dropping this discussion because it doesn't make sense whatsoever in my mind. 

Can you stop flip-flopping. All of the characters in the same universe isn't the same thing as wanting Marvel to get the film rights back to their characters. Yes, you have always wanted all the studios to work together in harmony. No, you never wanted Marvel to get the film rights back. You did not advocate for that.

[ZattMurdock]

Just now, Walt Disney said:

Can you stop flip-flopping. All of the characters in the same universe isn't the same thing as wanting Marvel to get the film rights back to their characters. Yes, you have always wanted all the studios to work together in harmony. No, you never wanted Marvel to get the film rights back. You did not advocate for that.

...

 

SURE ???

 

I'm sorry? 

 

[Walt Disney]

Just now, iJackSparrow said:

...

 

SURE ???

 

I'm sorry? 

 

You pretty much admitted what I said all along, so I have nothing further to add. But anyone that says that Sony can make a better Spider-Man film than Disney/Marvel isn't demanding that Marvel get the film rights back for their characters.