Racism and the Oscars thread

[Biph Shmata]

2 hours ago, Kalo said:

Another point to make doesn't the academy consists of over 6,000 voters and aren't they kind of supposed keep their voting to themselves? how could the academy silently make a racist decision to not nominate minority race actors? and even if there are some racists in the voting, it would most likely be a very small percentage, if it were large than I feel minority race actors would never be nominated. and hopefully the racist culprits would be found and kicked out. 

It's not about the Academy actively colluding to ignore minorities, it's that the make up of the Academy and film industry as whole lead to minorities being ignored both in acclamation and availability of roles/jobs.

Argue against the actual criticism, not what you want the criticism to be.  

[Kalo]

2 hours ago, The Panda said:

It seems like many people are completely missing the point of what systemic racism is and how it effects the academy and film industry.

 

Systemic racism isn't necessarily "everyone hating black people."  Systemic racism is the overall exclusion of a particular race from a particular career, social class, etc.  or that certain race being profiled (maybe not intentionally) more by law enforcement and thus leading to more of that race in a viscous law cycle.  It's the reason why the reason there are more minorities in poverty than whites isn't because the white man worked harder to get there, it's that racism is structurally embedded in US society and minorities are still suffering from it and whites are still benefitting form it.

 

You also can't really compare how this affects one industry to another.  For example, different kinds of musicians and sports players is a more demographically based explanation.  Like how, Rap and R&B are more popular in inner "urban" communities, which are more demographically full of minorities for the reasons above of racism being structurally embedded into US society even to the point of where people live.

 

As for the film industry, it's not that minorities are less talented or less willing to act that they aren't proportionally represented in the film industry.  It's more of how they get hired, and how it's easier for someone from an upper or more privileged class to get a good position within the industry.  There's also the problems of casting directors often making an assumption that, unless stated otherwise, the role is white.  It's subconscious, but it's still a racist result from how our society is structured.

 

Awards wise, in actuality, the average of minorities nommed in every category (not just acting) should be 2 minorities and 3 whites based on actual population, and that simply isn't true.  One, for an undiverse voting base, and two from a lack of opportunity in the film industry for minorities when compared to whites.

 

I actually agree with some of what you are saying, people in general are raised around other liked minded and racial (usually) people, and therefore subsciously go for what they relate to first, and because the majority of people in the film industry are white they are probably more likely to cast a white person in that role- well more like write that role with a white person in mind, thus making them a better fit to begin with.

I'm not sure I would necessarily call that racism though, I mean if it is then I would say everyone is racist to some degree. which actually may be true. but if that's the case it's more a flaw to be worked on rather than a heinous act of hatred. and that definitely goes both ways.

 

If you think about it, take away our culture and past and the only thing separating different races is there skin color. if a white person for example was raised by a black person they would most likely pick up their characteristics, I'd say it's more about a struggle to retain our cultural heritage, some of which may be better off forgotten. 

Edited January 23, 2016 by Kalo

[The Panda]

24 minutes ago, Kalo said:

 

I actually agree with some of what you are saying, people in general are raised around other liked minded and racial (usually) people, and therefore subsciously go for what they relate to first, and because the majority of people in the film industry are white they are probably more likely to cast a white person in that role- well more like write that role with a white person in mind, thus making them a better fit to begin with.

I'm not sure I would necessarily call that racism though, I mean if it is then I would say everyone is racist to some degree. which actually may be true. but if that's the case it's more a flaw to be worked on rather than a heinous act of hatred. and that definitely goes both ways.

 

If you think about it, take away our culture and past and the only thing separating different races is there skin color. if a white person for example was raised by a black person they would most likely pick up their characteristics, I'd say it's more about a struggle to retain our cultural heritage, some of which may be better off forgotten. 

 

I don't think a lot of the systemic racial problems are based in hatred, currently.  So Id agree.  Sure, there are examples hateful racist people, but those are extremes of the modern day problem.

 

What we need is a way to undue all of the history of segregation and racial inequality, because it's the only way to truly fight systemic racism.  Part of that is holding the academy and film industry accountable to try and bring more diversity, at a faster rate, into the film industry and the academy make up.

 

I think you also brought up a good point, in that we inherit our characteristics and also our financial situation.  Also, the people that raise you can really determine how you behave.  All of these factors play into each other.  For example, a lot of urban black culture is rooted in the fact that they've been born into a rougher life and hard situation that can seem impossible to escape from their own point of view.

[DAR]

5 hours ago, Cmasterclay said:

What these changes means is that the voters will be younger, more diverse, and much more represenatiive of the movie-going public at large. That is a good thing. I don't know how to argue otherwise. 

And what if the younger more diverse voters look over the performances during a particular year and decide to nominate zero POC?  Doesn't that bring the Academy back to square one

[MovieMan89]

1 hour ago, DAR said:

And what if the younger more diverse voters look over the performances during a particular year and decide to nominate zero POC?  Doesn't that bring the Academy back to square one

Thank you! If they are truly doing their job, they will vote for the performances they think are best. Not a black member voting for Michael B Jordan over Leo because he's black, even though they thought Leo was actually better. Adding more diversity to the Academy could change nothing if there still aren't many great roles there for POC like the majority seem to agree was the case this year. 

[misafeco]

11 hours ago, Cmasterclay said:

First of all, as noted above, when you factor in people of mixed race, Latinos, East Asians, Indians, people of Middle Eastern descent, and others, 40 percent of the country is people of color, and that's CERTAINLY not represenative of the Oscars. Second of all, I need to do that math for myself, because that poster has a history of very conservative posts that attempt to put down "social justice warriors." Third, even if they are true, they certainly aren't indicative of the past five or six years. Fourth, yes, when you look at the diversity of our country, the stories that we tell, our icons in culture.....one Best Picture movie and a couple of early victories in the first half of the century does NOT represent our culture or our country. 

Eh, i don't think the Oscars are perfect, but this #OscarsSoWhite campaign is stupid. Inside Out is a far superior movie to Compton, better than all the nominated movies and it was snubbed. The amazing Son of Saul was snubbed in a lot of categories, best picture, best director, best actor, cinematography and sound categories. Why? Because most members won't watch a Hungarian drama no matter how good it is. We should start an #OscarsSoEnglish campaign. They won't nominate Jacob Tremblay's wonderful performance because he is only a kid. Etc.

[Lordmandeep]

As a person of Colour, most could care less what the Academy think.

 

We sit around and watch Fast 7 all day. 

 

 

 

Being serious the academy not only has a race issue, it has a relevance issue.

 

It is far more selective and snobbish and political in its choices. Reality is the Oscars have really become a show for white urban people only, not of the overall public like the past. 

Edited January 23, 2016 by Lordmandeep

[Lordmandeep]

15 hours ago, Rey said:

So, I'm gonna go back on my word and get back into this thread because I'm seeing bullshit.

 

It's so upsetting to me, especially as a Hispanic/Latino/Mexican, whatever your whack ass wants to call me, but it's SO upsetting when people start to be like, "Why does no one complain about Asian or Latinos? Why is it only Blacks?"

 

One, it's super fucking disrespectful because you are literally doing and perpetuating what the racists want, is for minorities or people of color to NOT stand together in solidarity.

Two, it's thanks to the effort of many Black people that they are able to get so many of these issues to even be noticed and talked about, and that's that.

 

No, no, "Oh, but why aren't any of them doing anything for other minorities?" Honestly, while I myself do my best to get the issues of other minorities to the forefront, it's not their job to do ours.

 

It's our own, and I do believe more people need to start talking about this, not just Black people because much won't be done.

 

Three, it annoys me to DEATH when I see someone say, "But 12 Years A Slave won! Lupita won! (So and so) was nominated! Gina won a Globe!" Etc. These are just a few though.

 

Like, shut the hell up. One win every now and then doesn't mean Hollywood and the industry isn't racist, etc.

 

Third, I can see why the Oscars are being targeted in this sense. Sure, you all say these awards aren't the industry, but these awards do have some effect on the industry. The whole "Oscar-bait" exists because of this. Like, this award show does have some say. You can't tell me people seeing minorities getting recognized in a high profile awards show is not a good thing.

 

Like...

 

And finally, the reason the acting awards are mentioned or singled out is because other than Best Picture, they are the most talked about, etc. Like, I would be so happy to see my fellow Mexican, Inarritu walk away with yet another if it weren't for people calling him a douche, obnoxious, pretentious. Like, we can't win, can we?

 

 

 

This post will get a ton of flack but I think its the truth.

 

People from Indian, Asian backgrounds do not complain to much about racism however it is because of the culture. It is a much more reserved, keeping feelings to your self... The idea of not making a scene and enduring...To continue towards success (more prosperity and better jobs and education) and the white man will be proven wrong in the end. 

 

While in other communities, if they face racism, they are far less passive and expressive about their feelings. 

 

It creates this idea that one group is whiny, while the others are more successful. To me its more a reflection of cultural attitudes towards things and imo creates tension between minority groups as well. Believe it or not minority groups can be just as racist towards each other as whit people can be against them. 

 

Some will say this is just racist or untrue, however as an Indian person I think it is true to a certain  extent. 

Edited January 23, 2016 by Lordmandeep

[misafeco]

Best director winners:

Alejandro González Inarritu

Alfonso Cuarón

Ang Lee

Michel Hazanavicius

Tom Hooper

Kathryn Bigelow

Danny Boyle

 

Where are the American, white males? Oh they were not good enough. (Or maybe the academy is racist against them. idk.)

Edited January 23, 2016 by misafeco

[grey ghost]

2 hours ago, Lordmandeep said:

 

 

This post will get a ton of flack but I think its the truth.

 

People from Indian, Asian backgrounds do not complain to much about racism however it is because of the culture. It is a much more reserved, keeping feelings to your self... The idea of not making a scene and enduring...To continue towards success (more prosperity and better jobs and education) and the white man will be proven wrong in the end. 

 

While in other communities, if they face racism, they are far less passive and expressive about their feelings. 

 

It creates this idea that one group is whiny, while the others are more successful. To me its more a reflection of cultural attitudes towards things and imo creates tension between minority groups as well. Believe it or not minority groups can be just as racist towards each other as whit people can be against them. 

 

Some will say this is just racist or untrue, however as an Indian person I think it is true to a certain  extent. 

 

You forgot to mention that blacks have been victims of racist atrocities for hundreds of years so modern racism from whites cuts deeper.

 

Also, there are Chinese and Koreans who are resentful towards the Japanese for past atrocities. So being resentful about past wrongs doesn't automatically lower one's ambition or success. I'm not sure where that theory comes from. Is there a scientific study I don't know about that proves that resenting the legacy of past atrocities stops people from being successful?

 

Is there proof that black doctors, lawyers, and engineers think slavery and Jim Crow were no big deal? 

[Lordmandeep]

You missed my point.

 

I am not arguing being passive or active regarding racism makes certain groups better off.

 

 

It's the perception though that many have and I just explained where that perception comes from...

 

Ideas like black people whine to much and hey look at group x they do well.

[The Panda]

2 hours ago, misafeco said:

Best director winners:

Alejandro González Inarritu

Alfonso Cuarón

Ang Lee

Michel Hazanavicius

Tom Hooper

Kathryn Bigelow

Danny Boyle

 

Where are the American, white males? Oh they were not good enough. (Or maybe the academy is racist against them. idk.)

 

Or you could factor in Bigelow is one of the only female director nods period.

 

Boyle, Hooper, and Michel are white males, don't cherry pick them as not.  Plus nobody is calling out bias against white Western Europeans.

 

Director category is also one of the more progressive ones when thinking about minorities (not women though).  Ideally you'd average 2 minority noms a year and 2-3 female noms a year, that doesn't happen. (For numerous reasons I've stated before)

 

Stop assuming with all of your posts that you pick a few cherry picked nominations and wins to say there isn't a problem with a lack of minorities and women in the industry.  It's a narrow-minded view.

[grey ghost]

43 minutes ago, Lordmandeep said:

You missed my point.

 

I am not arguing being passive or active regarding racism makes certain groups better off.

 

 

It's the perception though that many have and I just explained where that perception comes from...

 

Ideas like black people whine to much and hey look at group x they do well.

 

I didn't miss anything.

 

You explained why people say resentment towards racism, past and present, hold black people back. I explained why that assumption is flat out wrong.

 

There's no evidence that historical perspective ruins ambition so why would you try to explain where the idiotic assumption comes from?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[misafeco]

29 minutes ago, The Panda said:

 

Or you could factor in Bigelow is one of the only female director nods period.

 

Boyle, Hooper, and Michel are white males, don't cherry pick them as not.  Plus nobody is calling out bias against white Western Europeans.

 

Director category is also one of the more progressive ones when thinking about minorities (not women though).  Ideally you'd average 2 minority noms a year and 2-3 female noms a year, that doesn't happen. (For numerous reasons I've stated before)

 

Stop assuming with all of your posts that you pick a few cherry picked nominations and wins to say there isn't a problem with a lack of minorities and women in the industry.  It's a narrow-minded view.

My point was that no American white male won for Best Director in the last 7 years. Did they complain about this?

 

"Ideally you'd average 2 minority noms a year and 2-3 female noms a year, that doesn't happen." Ideally the 5 best director takes the 5 spot. I don't care if they are all women if they were the best in that year.

 

I never said there isn't a problem with the lack of opportunities for minorities and women in the industry. That's the problem IMO, and not the Academy members' racism. #HollywoodSoWhite. How exactly am i narrow minded?

Edited January 23, 2016 by misafeco

[Lordmandeep]

1 hour ago, grey ghost said:

 

I didn't miss anything.

 

You explained why people say resentment towards racism, past and present, hold black people back. I explained why that assumption is flat out wrong.

 

There's no evidence that historical perspective ruins ambition so why would you try to explain where the idiotic assumption comes from?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Because I live in the real world and as a person of colour see many people... many who are successful or educated or downtrodden holding such views? 

[Kvikk Lunsj]

There is a problem in both the Hollywood industry and the Academy. The Academy is out touch with the majority of people regardless of culture or sex, I think we all can agree with that. The problem becomes majority the academy is white older males. So the movies for the Oscar tend to cater to older white men. Having the Academy be more diverse in age, race, sex, and nationality is only a good thing. Beside the Artist and Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon forging language films are largely ignored. Yes there is a separate category but it is the same as Best Animation.

In the Industry most of casting goes to white males. There are more roles for white males that could have gone to some one else. Example the Martin could have gone to David Oyelow or another talented actor who is not white. The industry could adopt a new rule like the NFL has Rooney Rule. Which requires teams when look at a new coach to atleast interview minority. This will at least put casting directors to remember to include other people who are not white.  NFL for a long time maybe only one or two minority head coaches. Now there are six head coaches out 32 teams

[4815162342]

54 minutes ago, Darth Dexter of Hoth said:

There is a problem in both the Hollywood industry and the Academy. The Academy is out touch with the majority of people regardless of culture or sex, I think we all can agree with that. The problem becomes majority the academy is white older males. So the movies for the Oscar tend to cater to older white men. Having the Academy be more diverse in age, race, sex, and nationality is only a good thing. Beside the Artist and Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon forging language films are largely ignored. Yes there is a separate category but it is the same as Best Animation.

In the Industry most of casting goes to white males. There are more roles for white males that could have gone to some one else. Example the Martin could have gone to David Oyelow or another talented actor who is not white. The industry could adopt a new rule like the NFL has Rooney Rule. Which requires teams when look at a new coach to atleast interview minority. This will at least put casting directors to remember to include other people who are not white.  NFL for a long time maybe only one or two minority head coaches. Now there are six head coaches out 32 teams

 

The Rooney Rule would be impossible to enforce in Hollywood.

[movieboner]

This all started when Will Smith got snubbed by the Oscars. Will, with his wife and PR team practically stirred up this controversy about the lack of diversity at the Oscars for "revenge." Then, it got blown out of proportion by the media.

[Kvikk Lunsj]

30 minutes ago, 4815162342 said:

 

The Rooney Rule would be impossible to enforce in Hollywood.

Why not something similar?  having to interview a minority for  cast, director, or writer? 

[Bond Bug]

19 hours ago, The Panda said:

It seems like many people are completely missing the point of what systemic racism is and how it effects the academy and film industry.

 

Systemic racism isn't necessarily "everyone hating black people."  Systemic racism is the overall exclusion of a particular race from a particular career, social class, etc.  or that certain race being profiled (maybe not intentionally) more by law enforcement and thus leading to more of that race in a viscous law cycle.  It's the reason why the reason there are more minorities in poverty than whites isn't because the white man worked harder to get there, it's that racism is structurally embedded in US society and minorities are still suffering from it and whites are still benefitting form it.

 

You also can't really compare how this affects one industry to another.  For example, different kinds of musicians and sports players is a more demographically based explanation.  Like how, Rap and R&B are more popular in inner "urban" communities, which are more demographically full of minorities for the reasons above of racism being structurally embedded into US society even to the point of where people live.

 

As for the film industry, it's not that minorities are less talented or less willing to act that they aren't proportionally represented in the film industry.  It's more of how they get hired, and how it's easier for someone from an upper or more privileged class to get a good position within the industry.  There's also the problems of casting directors often making an assumption that, unless stated otherwise, the role is white.  It's subconscious, but it's still a racist result from how our society is structured.

 

Awards wise, in actuality, the average of minorities nommed in every category (not just acting) should be 2 minorities and 3 whites based on actual population, and that simply isn't true.  One, for an undiverse voting base, and two from a lack of opportunity in the film industry for minorities when compared to whites.

 

I agree with what you say. In addition, the Black population is behind the curve in Hollywood, as it is in so many other areas, because Blacks were not given the opportunities in the past in a White-owned industry. There is still some catching up to do. Even when Black actors came to prominence in the 60s, they were playing Black stereotypes or showing what it was like to be Black in America, rather than being given roles based on talent, regardless of color, then we had the Blaxploitation era. Generally speaking, it has only been the last few decades that Blacks have been given roles that White actors might be given. With that level of unfairness, of course the academy and the industry is still a long way behind.