The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power | Amazon | September 2, 2022

[MikeQ]

16 hours ago, Liiviig 1998 said:

Hmm .the whole scene lacked tension ,warg cgi was terrible and the chereography was equally bad imo . Biggest pet peeves is death scenes that try to Garner emotion when I know little of the character ,it can work at times but it was so poorly excuted here. That scene involving the elf getting sliced on the neck was really poor.

 

 

 

I'm sorry to hear that was your experience with the scene.

 

For me, it was structured and shot in such a way to make it unexpected/surprising  - the slice of the neck after tension built around the water being poisoned; multiple deaths and a failed escape when it seemed the opposite would occur until those final arrows. I didn't think the deaths were particularly milked in terms of the emotion - more so the surprise.

 

For me, a legitimately egregious attempt at unearned emotion is the death of Haldir from The Two Towers. I love the LOTR trilogy, but that death scene is a real example of one that is unearned. And basically anything from The Hobbit (anyone remember "Why does it hurt SO much?") - but I try to forget that trilogy exists (sorry PJ).

 

Peace,

Mike

 

Edited September 15, 2022 by MikeQ

[Ozymandias]

17 minutes ago, MikeQ said:

I'm sorry to hear that was your experience with the scene.

 

For me, it was structured and shot in such a way to make it unexpected/surprising  - the slice of the neck after tension built around the water being poisoned; multiple deaths and a failed escape when it seemed the opposite would occur until those final arrows. I didn't think the deaths were particularly milked in terms of the emotion - more so the surprise.

 

For me, a legitimately egregious attempt at unearned emotion is the death of Haldir from The Two Towers. I love the LOTR trilogy, but that death scene is a real example of one that is unearned. And basically anything from The Hobbit (anyone remember "Why does it hurt SO much?") - but I try to forget that trilogy exists (sorry PJ).

 

Peace,

Mike

 

Classifying Haldir's(who we understand) death at Helms Deep as being a "legitimately egregious attempt at unearned emotion" is pretty wild when you're totally fine with some random elf we saw for 10 seconds earlier in one of the previous episodes spouting off clunky expository dialogue about the history of elf/human romances getting a prolonged & dramatically overcooked death scene with swelling music.

 

The extent to which some people go to prop up this utterly vapid show is kinda amazing and I suspect it has a lot more to do with it becoming "a cause" to support due to the nauseating culture war raging around it rather than the actual merits of the show itself.  If people really feel the need to go back and attempt to pick apart the PJ films in order to do that, they're much better off sticking with The Hobbit films.

 

Peace,

Ozymandias

[MikeQ]

5 minutes ago, Ozymandias said:

 

Classifying Haldir's(who we understand) death at Helms Deep as being a "legitimately egregious attempt at unearned emotion" is pretty wild when you're totally fine with some random elf we saw for 10 seconds earlier in one of the previous episodes spouting off clunky expository dialogue about the history of elf/human romances getting a prolonged & dramatically overcooked death scene with swelling music.

 

The extent to which some people go to prop up this utterly vapid show is kinda amazing and I suspect it has a lot more to do with it becoming "a cause" to support due to the nauseating culture war raging around it rather than the actual merits of the show itself.  If people really feel the need to go back and attempt to pick apart the PJ films in order to do that, they're much better off sticking with The Hobbit films.

 

Peace,

Ozymandias

 

I don't really know how to respond to this post. I'm sensing animosity towards me, and I'm not sure why.

 

We're talking about a TV show that I was pretty sceptical of coming in, and am still unsure if it will ultimately land somewhere satisfying. At this point, all I've done is shared how I am enjoying the show so far, with some exceptions, and why.

 

I make one comparison to/critical note of my favourite trilogy of all-time, and it's blown up as "pick[ing] apart the PJ films". If it wasn't already obvious, I'm a huge LOTR fan.

 

Folks have different experiences when they watch a film or TV show - particularly when it's from beloved source material. It's not my goal to belittle anyone who thinks differently than me. I genuinely apologize if I triggered you in my comments - it was not my intention.

 

Peace,

Mike

[ChipDerby]

I thought the death scene was fine. It was more to make it emotional for Arondir. The Warg cgi wasn't great when they first showed it, but it was fine during the actual fight.

 

Overall I've been really enjoying it. Love how they're building out this world.

[Porthos]

17 minutes ago, ChipDerby said:

I thought the death scene was fine. It was more to make it emotional for Arondir. The Warg cgi wasn't great when they first showed it, but it was fine during the actual fight.

 

Overall I've been really enjoying it. Love how they're building out this world.

 

 

===

 

Yeah... The Warg CGI was... Pretty bad and just about the only thing so far that made me sit up and go "Wow.  Cheap."

 

But, as the meme notes, having... dodgy doggy CGI is a staple of this franchise.

 

(also, it should be noted, CGI when hair is involved is really hard, if my understanding from discussions surrounding the topic in the distant cousin of animation is any indication)

Edited September 15, 2022 by Porthos

[Menor the Destroyer]

I wasn't a huge fan of the escape scene, mainly because I'm not super invested in Arondir's storyline atm, but I don't think the elves' deaths were attempts at milking emotion. They weren't overly lingered on.

Edited September 16, 2022 by Menor Reborn

[Porthos]

The Khazad-Dûm sections remain the best part of this series so far.

Edited September 16, 2022 by Porthos

[Porthos]

I dunno.  Something felt a bit off about how a couple of the dots were connected in the Númenor plot line.  Not exactly off, but a tad too neat in a couple of places.  Missing a je ne sais quoi that I can't quite put my finger on...  Just "a bit too neat" is the best way I can describe it.

 

Not bad, or even middling.

 

I think part of it is 

Spoiler

Galadriel is being a bit too one note here in this episode.  I don't know if it is the direction or not, but there was a subtle difference here in her hot/pig headedness that wasn't quite there in other episodes. 

 

I strongly suspect part of Galadriel's arc is how she learns to be more diplomatic and not a one-note ass-kicker.  That is, she learns how not to be a warrior but a leader, so perhaps growing pains are part of that arc.  The episode certainly goes out of its way to say Galadriel Is Acting Like An Idiot And Needs To Grow Up.

 

But it's just...

 

I dunno, like I said.  Just a bit "off". 

 

Again, it wasn't bad.  Might just suffer from "Middle/Transition Episode Of A Season Syndrome" where things work better as part of the whole.

 

===

 

Rest of the episode worked much better for me. Much much better, actually.  Already commented on the brilliance of the Khazad-Dûm story, but I also must admit to being... intrigued by Adar.  Curious, even.  

 

And a Curious Porthos is a hooked Porthos.

 

Perhaps more thoughts later, and perhaps after a re-watch.

[MikeQ]

Some thoughts before bed:

 

For me, episode 4 is probably the strongest so far. While the world-building of the show has been fun, my biggest concern has been giving room for characters to breathe. This episode has done the best job of slowing down (somewhat); allowing for extended conversations and for relationships to develop. 

Spoiler

• The pairing of Elrond and Durin (and Disa) is my favourite, hands down. These characters work so well, and in relationship to each other. Elrond's speech about his father to Durin - moving.
• Thanks to Halbrand, Galadriel & Miriel are now a pair - and frankly, this has opened Galadriel up to become a more likeable character moving forward. A character can only be so narrowly driven by anger and resentment until it to become too much.
• I'm left wondering what is the point of Elendil's daughter (he doesn't have a daughter in the lore). Feels like an completely unnecessary character at this point.
• It was nice getting to see elves be elves this episode. Though I'm least connected to Arondir of all the major characters, that rescue sequence was lovely.

 

We'll see how things unfold from here...

 

Peace,

Mike

[MikeQ]

15 minutes ago, Porthos said:

I dunno.  Something felt a bit off about how a couple of the dots were connected in the Númenor plot line.  Not exactly off, but a tad too neat in a couple of places.  Missing a je ne sais quoi that I can't quite put my finger on...  Just "a bit too neat" is the best way I can describe it.

 

Not bad, or even middling.

 

I think part of it is 

  Reveal hidden contents

Galadriel is being a bit too one note here in this episode.  I don't know if it is the direction or not, but there was a subtle difference here in her hot/pig headedness that wasn't quite there in other episodes. 

 

I strongly suspect part of Galadriel's arc is how she learns to be more diplomatic and not a one-note ass-kicker.  That is, she learns how not to be a warrior but a leader, so perhaps growing pains are part of that arc.  The episode certainly goes out of its way to say Galadriel Is Acting Like An Idiot And Needs To Grow Up.

 

But it's just...

 

I dunno, like I said.  Just a bit "off". 

 

Again, it wasn't bad.  Might just suffer from "Middle/Transition Episode Of A Season Syndrome" where things work better as part of the whole.

 

===

 

Rest of the episode worked much better for me. Much much better, actually.  Already commented on the brilliance of the Khazad-Dûm story, but I also must admit to being... intrigued by Adar.  Curious, even.  

 

And a Curious Porthos is a hooked Porthos.

 

Perhaps more thoughts later, and perhaps after a re-watch.

I agree with your first assessment, and "a bit too neat" is the best way to describe it.

Spoiler

Halbrand shifting Galadriel's perspective, then Galadriel shifting her approach and being more diplomatic, etc. It didn't feel super organic, but I suppose I was left with a sense of relief that this opens up her character to be a little less one-note moving forward. Not sure what you think of that.

 

Khazad-dûm is truly a highlight, as you mention.

 

Peace,

Mike
 

[Porthos]

Since I was critical of one aspect of the direction of this episode, I want to applaud a different aspect.

 

Concerning Adar.

 

Spoiler

Adar is a role that is sooooooooo easy to get wrong and seem one-note, but Joseph Mawle sold it and sold it beautifully.

 

There was a part of his scene that I instantly perked up at:

 

Adar:  You have been told many lies. Some run so deep, even the rocks and roots now believe them. To untangle it all... 

 

Adar: Would all but require the creation of a new world.

 

Adar: But that is something only the gods can do.  And I am no god.  At least...

 

Adar sighs

 

Adar [smiles]: Not yet.

 

Even a Tolkien Casual like me instantly recognized the dual M.O. here and the people who espoused it.  Like, sat up in my seat and went WOAH "instantly recognized".

 

Not that I think he's Sauron as that also might be a bit too neat  But preaching the Gospel of Sauron/Morgoth?  Oh yes, absolutely.  So right now, I'm pegging him as one of his major lieutenants.  An elf corrupted by Sauron.

 

Really interested in seeing more of this character, I can tell you that.

Edited September 16, 2022 by Porthos

[Ozymandias]

So Pharazon and the King's Men of Numenor are now a rather on the nose MAGA chud allegory.  I mean, nothing says J.R.R. Tolkien or Lord of the Rings like being reminded of Donald ****ing Trump, right?

 

Tolkien famously despised allegory so this decision is as baffling as it is dumb & insulting.

[Liiviig 1998]

Better episode than 3 . Solid episode.

 

Dwarves are the best in this by a mile and no other subplot comes close.

 

Arondhir plotline was just fine in this episode.

 

Numenor plotline was the weakest this episode, galadriel 's escape scene was hilariously bad.

The whole anti elf sentiment among the poeple of numenor this episode felt rushed and disjointed and made the whole ending and the queens decision fall apart . 

 

Overall the pacing was better but can't help feel like better writers would have condensed this four episodes into three strong episodes.

 

Ranking so far

2

4

1

3

 

[Ozymandias]

8 minutes ago, Liiviig 1998 said:

Numenor plotline was the weakest this episode, galadriel 's escape scene was hilariously bad.

The whole anti elf sentiment among the poeple of numenor this episode felt rushed and disjointed and made the whole ending and the queens decision fall apart .

 

I laughed when Galadriel put all those guards into the cell. They had to cut away because they couldn't even rely on bad choreography to make that situation work.

 

And I gotta hand it to them, the idea of elves showing up to take Numenorean jobs when Elf Heaven is like half a day's boat ride away is pretty funny.

[Inceptionzq]

The Numenor plot was definitely a little weird to me

Spoiler

The Faithful was somewhat confusing to me. Didn't the Queen Regent just basically admit to being a part of the Faithful by listening to the sign of the White Tree's petals falling? Are they not a minority, so why wasn't there more opposition from the King's Men? I think the beginning of the episode makes it pretty clear that the King's Men aren't really organized as of yet. But the end of the episode felt like a pretty organized effort to stay quiet, let the Queen leave, and let Pharazon gain power. I suspect that's something we'll see next episode, but it did feel like that part didn't develop much.

Still it honestly didn't bother me that much. Like @Porthos said it felt a bit off. Despite that, I think this is the best episode.

 

The Southlands plot continues to get more and more interesting. I've seen that scene between Theo and Waldreg from the trailers so many times, but it went differently than I expected. In a good way that I think is more intriguing. And it seems I'm in the minority here, but Arondir is one of my favorite characters. Also, Disa's singing was amazing.

[cookieleeann]

Great episode 4. I'm loving the direction the plot is going. I was very sure of some things last episode and with each passing episode my prediction seems to be true.

[Brainbug]

Another good episode. The series continues to be good. Not amazing, but very watchable. Im fine with that.

[Menor the Destroyer]

I think this was my favorite episode so far. I enjoyed all the storylines and am quite excited for the next. 

Spoiler

I do agree that the Numenor politics felt strange and underdeveloped, the idea of elves taking away human jobs was particularly strange and felt very hamfisted. 

 

Adar is now making me very curious, he's certainly not Sauron, but I'm interested in seeing more of his backstory. I wonder what lies he's referring to. 

 

[ChipDerby]

10 hours ago, Ozymandias said:

So Pharazon and the King's Men of Numenor are now a rather on the nose MAGA chud allegory.  I mean, nothing says J.R.R. Tolkien or Lord of the Rings like being reminded of Donald ****ing Trump, right?

 

Tolkien famously despised allegory so this decision is as baffling as it is dumb & insulting.

 

I think you have more of an issue with how stupid people are acting now, rather than this being a common occurrence throughout mankind's history.

[Ozymandias]

26 minutes ago, ChipDerby said:

 

I think you have more of an issue with how stupid people are acting now, rather than this being a common occurrence throughout mankind's history.

 

I understand that but this is really silly if you're familiar with history of Numenor. 

 

Numenor is an incredibly advanced and powerful race of Men that are even more advanced than many of the Elves.  The Numenorians literally have to save the Elves from annihilation when Sauron invades and destroys Eregion in the north.  When the Numenorian expedition arrives at the begging of Gil-Galad, they completely wreck Sauron's armies and fortresses with minimal casualties, so Sauron's only option was to give himself up as prisoner and slowly corrupt their political class from within and goad them into a war against the Valar they had no chance of winning.  Theres enough of an allegory there (not just for the US) you could explore without turning it into a clunky and forced opportunity to rail against Trump and remind everyone of his big dumb ugly orange face in Middle Earth.  That also plays into one of Tolkien's biggest themes in how power and ambition corrupts and it could've easily been done in a very Tolkien-esque way because its already right freaking there in the text.  Instead we get elf workers taking our jobs with elf heaven right next door and MAGA rallies in Numenor.  Its so absurd and feels wildly anachronistic in this world and instantly dates it.

 

Furthermore, theres already a perfect set up in the show they could've used.  Their beloved king is in his death bed and about to die from old age and the appearance of Elves showing up at various points throughout the age on diplomatic missions without aging(in this particular instance, Galadriel the semi-God Elven Queen) and it serves as a fresh reminder of their mortality which is rubbed in their faces and breeds resentment.

 

There, you got the perfect reason for why the Numenoreans are angry and resent the elves and the Valar.  They're stronger and more advanced than the elves in most ways yet are really mad and jealous that the Valar gifted them eternal life but they're stuck with short lives of 200-300 years.  You could do a lot with that.

 

But nope, the elves are comin' to take ar jerbs!

 

J.D. Payne, Patrick Mckay, and Lindsey Weber are hacks.