Disney+ MCU: The Falcon & The Winter Soldier | Featuring Captain Ughmerica and Battlestar Galactica

[Menor the Destroyer]

I was just okay with Sam and Bucky before but I think they have worked great as leads in this show. Mackie and Stan do a good job with the spotlight. I also think the character arcs have been much better integrated than those in WandaVision, especially comparing Sam becoming Captain America to Wanda becoming Scarlet Witch. One of these was set up from the start and explored well while the other was kinda randomly tacked on at the end and barely explained. 

[Joyous Legion]

1 hour ago, EarlyDeadlinePredictions said:

  Reveal hidden contents

That Isiah scene wow. Him recalling the getting locked up and experimented on for doing the same thing Steve did in The First Avenger. Great callback. 

 

I agree with people that the Flagsmashers and Karli are weak antagonists. I do get their motives but they never seem like a real threat and are overshadowed by the rest of the cast.

 

Also is Batrocs name in the MCU Georges or was that a screw up?

 

Spoiler

Yep, Georges Batroc

 

[Cap]

Spoiler

presented without further comment 

 

[4815162342]

3 hours ago, SnokesLegs said:

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Loved that episode, it wasn’t particularly action heavy but I loved the character work and especially the boat fixing scenes which felt like scenes straight out of Lethal Weapon (in a good way). The Isaiah Bradley scenes were great as well, I’m glad they revisited him and went deeper into his story, hopefully we see more of him going forward, although maybe his past is a bit too heavy to see in the MCU, I can’t really see experimentation and torture being PG-13 rated.

 

Wyatt Russell continues to impress too, It’s obviously heading towards a battle, but I hope they don’t kill him off, I’d be interested to see him develop into a thorn in Sam and Bucky’s sides.

 

Julia Louis-Dreyfus turning up to chew the scenery was a pleasant surprise! 
 

If you look at the closing credits, it definitely seems like we’re getting at least one more cast addition next week considering all the cast slates now have names on them apart from the final one which will presumably be a “And [insert name]”. Possibly Florence Pugh? Or dare we dream...old man Steve?

 

 

The "and" is Don Cheadle, going by Episode 1

[Eric the Minion]

Spoiler

The JLD cameo is sooooo rad. Really hope she's in more Marvel stuff

 

[SnokesLegs]

4 hours ago, 4815162342 said:

 

The "and" is Don Cheadle, going by Episode 1

Ah yes, you’re right. That slipped my mind somehow.

[YM!]

So got to rescind my comment on the WandaVision remark as the finale is really bad and off pacing but I think if they stick the landing, The Falcon and The Winter Soldier may just be the best piece of MCU media since Black Panther.

 

I am glad they’re fleshing out Sam and Bucky, and gave Zemo the one thing he needed: a personality. There’s also a sense of sincerity I felt was missing for a lot of MCU work. I am also really glad with the racial lens, they are using for this show which is far better than I was expected, though I do think they could have employed it a bit better, if anything we need more of that.

 

So far I’m leaning towards a B+, but we have to wait and see for the finale. Episode ranking so far is:
 

5>4>1>2>3

[YM!]

Spoiler

Also yay Dreyfuss 

 

[TwoMisfits]

I'm still not feeling it - episode #5 really didn't build any drama towards an immediately-coming season, and possibly series, ending.  Everything I like about the show (which did have some moments in this episode) has been done better in other Marvel movies and series.  And I can now write a book about everything I don't like...

 

It's dropping to an overall C series for me...the overall plotting and pacing is just atrocious, and that's where Cap movies always excelled.  

 

And the montage - are you telling me "X" wasn't already a bad-a$$ hero when I saw him before?  What, was he slacking then?  Why would I ever think someone who took on Thanos needs to do more?  It was almost embarrassing to see, and kept reminding me that the writers seemed to depower the heroes b/c if they didn't do so, they didn't have many places for plot to go or scenes that would work...and that their plotting and pacing is still atrocious b/c they could have used all that time for actual real plot movement...

[charlie Jatinder]

10 hours ago, Cap said:

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presented without further comment 

 

Problem isn't core story which is actually pretty solid and would have sounded great on paper. Problem is just the awful presentation in which hardly anything is working. Most of things that happen in show are just happening without any proper flow to them.

 

Except for WV first 4 episodes, none of the episodes till now stand to high standards of TV/web series in today's era.

Edited April 17, 2021 by charlie Jatinder

[Liiviig 1998]

Well finally after some mediocre episodes this episode did something. it was the best episode so far.

 

We get some good bonding time with bucky and sam and loved the banter btn them especially the whole "Sarah" bit was fun and their dialogue  about cap and bucky moving past his regret was really good.

John walker is simply the best thing about this show. This episode he took it to the next level.

 

Cameo though not significant was fine.

 

The racial lens in this was sort of mixed bag for me. Don't get me wrong what he says is true but how it's presented in the show is just kind of shallow and presented over two episodes for about 10mins, no flash back or something significant to put forth the theme. I love that sam even after hearing all isaiah says and later still decides to not let that influence him which made the whole racial lens scene palatable enough for me.

 

(BTW  cheadle was selected to become the iron patriot which doesn't make what isaiah said wrong but it kind of undermines what the show is trying to say.)

 

Well what was the fucking point of zemo all he does is made kind of redundant for the show. Zemo was wasted.

 

Overall 8.2/10.

Better chemistry btn bucky and sam, everything with walker better,bucky gets a meaningful movement in his arc,better acting all round. 

 

Racial lens  needed more devt and zemo letdown.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Valonqar]

9 hours ago, TwoMisfits said:

And the montage - are you telling me "X" wasn't already a bad-a$$ hero when I saw him before?  What, was he slacking then?  Why would I ever think someone who took on Thanos needs to do more?  It was almost embarrassing to see, and kept reminding me that the writers seemed to depower the heroes b/c if they didn't do so, they didn't have many places for plot to go or scenes that would work...and that their plotting and pacing is still atrocious b/c they could have used all that time for actual real plot movement...

Ah yes, now we are talking my biggest pet peeve of all pet peeves - restarting the character arc aka Writing Laziness De Luxe. No, we can't build from the end of Endgame cause we wouldn't have a story (not that this one makes sense). We have to do the refusal of the call/needs to do more even though he has no reason to refuse the call and do more. It's all BS. You can have a story with a character who is ready, you just need to select a writer who can pull it off. 

 

5 hours ago, charlie Jatinder said:

Problem isn't core story which is actually pretty solid and would have sounded great on paper. Problem is just the awful presentation in which hardly anything is working. Most of things that happen in show are just happening without any proper flow to them.

This and big part of it is the shows inability to pinpoint the antagonist.  Karli and the Flagsmashers don't work at all, be it as just villains or, what the show is unsuccessfully trying, sympathetic villains. They are weak sauce yet somehow our heroes can't put them down. Just ridiculous. There's no worse way to undermine your heroes but make them ineffective against lame villain(s). And this is the show's big weakness.

 

 

They also wasted Zemo who, as fun as he is, didn't really add up. And now they are setting up Walker as the main villain in the last hour even though he defeated himself by losing control so having him defeated by the new rightful Cap isn't really moving the needle. His lethal rage disqualified him as a Cap and showed why men like Sam and Steve (and even Bucky now that he's in control)  are right for the job. But noo, he has to go rogue cause finale has to have a hero go against the big bad. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if they redeemed Karli in the last minute and absolve her and Flagsmashers in order to show how irredeemable Walker is. Even though his rage and taking it on a terrorist (are we supposed to pity that guy? lol) was understandable. He isn't the right man to be Cap so strip him off Capness, give it to Sam and have him kick Flagsmashers' asses finally. But that's not what we are going to get which is why this show doesn't flow. It wants to be too many things and falls flat every time.

 

3 hours ago, Liiviig 1998 said:

 

The racial lens in this was sort of mixed bag for me. Don't get me wrong what he says is true but how it's presented in the show is just kind of shallow and presented over two episodes for about 10mins, no flash back or something significant to put forth the theme. I love that sam even after hearing all isaiah says and later still decides to not let that influence him which made the whole racial lens scene palatable enough for me.

 

 

I honestly think this is a big reason why this show is getting a pass despite so many problems with the story and characters. They clumsily inserted some talking points without actual intesrest in the subject  but are getting applauded for just having those shallow references at all. I'm a type that's if you ain't gonna do anything with it beyond cringe cosmetics than don't bother, but I understand that there are people who think that even the smallest acknowledgement matters and some even mistake it for profound film-making. Like, "they had a policeman say "is he bothering you?' So deep!" 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 17, 2021 by Valonqar

[Menor the Destroyer]

2 hours ago, Valonqar said:

Ah yes, now we are talking my biggest pet peeve of all pet peeves - restarting the character arc aka Writing Laziness De Luxe. No, we can't build from the end of Endgame cause we wouldn't have a story (not that this one makes sense). We have to do the refusal of the call/needs to do more even though he has no reason to refuse the call and do more. It's all BS. You can have a story with a character who is ready, you just need to select a writer who can pull it off. 

 

This and big part of it is the shows inability to pinpoint the antagonist.  Karli and the Flagsmashers don't work at all, be it as just villains or, what the show is unsuccessfully trying, sympathetic villains. They are weak sauce yet somehow our heroes can't put them down. Just ridiculous. There's no worse way to undermine your heroes but make them ineffective against lame villain(s). And this is the show's big weakness.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

They also wasted Zemo who, as fun as he is, didn't really add up. And now they are setting up Walker as the main villain in the last hour even though he defeated himself by losing control so having him defeated by the new rightful Cap isn't really moving the needle. His lethal rage disqualified him as a Cap and showed why men like Sam and Steve (and even Bucky now that he's in control)  are right for the job. But noo, he has to go rogue cause finale has to have a hero go against the big bad. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if they redeemed Karli in the last minute and absolve her and Flagsmashers in order to show how irredeemable Walker is. Even though his rage and taking it on a terrorist (are we supposed to pity that guy? lol) was understandable. He isn't the right man to be Cap so strip him off Capness, give it to Sam and have him kick Flagsmashers' asses finally. But that's not what we are going to get which is why this show doesn't flow. It wants to be too many things and falls flat every time.

 

 

I honestly think this is a big reason why this show is getting a pass despite so many problems with the story and characters. They clumsily inserted some talking points without actual intesrest in the subject  but are getting applauded for just having those shallow references at all. I'm a type that's if you ain't gonna do anything with it beyond cringe cosmetics than don't bother, but I understand that there are people who think that even the smallest acknowledgement matters and some even mistake it for profound film-making. Like, "they had a policeman say "is he bothering you?' So deep!" 

 

 

 

 

Or, you know, maybe people just like the show more than you. People disagreeing with your criticisms isn't "giving the show a pass". 

 

For example, refusal of the call is a perfectly valid storytelling technique. You disliking it doesn't mean everyone has to. How do we know he had no reason to refuse the call? We didn't know much about Sam's character before this show so we couldn't have known what his feelings were towards that shield. 

 

Karli and the Flagsmashers should be "easy" for our heroes to put down because you don't like them as villains, apparently. Yet since they are super soldiers, obviously they would not be that easy for them to fight. So this criticism doesn't even make sense. 

 

And other criticisms like Sam being a "bad lead" or the pacing being "off" or "not working" are just totally subjective, so it should not be surprising that people would disagree with those. You could either understand that your point of view isn't universal or resort to the cheap online jab of "people are giving it a 'pass' because of cosmetic diversity", which is basically a rhetorical tactic of trying to make yourself sound smarter than everyone else. 

 

 

 

[TwoMisfits]

You know what else has really bothered me about this show...what superheroes 

Spoiler

1st lackadaisically get involved in stopping a villain, and then decide, while the villain is actually still damn powerful and floating around causing mass destruction, to just quit and leave it alone, b/c the "government" has now taken over.  Or at least quit til someone "gets them a lead."  Like isn't that their job as the superhero?  To find the damn leads and track this stuff down and stop it?  Not to just quit, throw up their hands, and say "oh well, they'll get back to us when they need us?  For now, I'm out b/c I have so many more things to do as Bucky..."

 

2nd, even if the bad guys are super soldiers, they are untrained, non-fighters.  The fact that any of them could fight Bucky one on one is ridiculous.  He has 80 years of training, and was bada$$ enough to beat Cap and fight him to standstills.  If he got jumped by the soldiers 4-on-1, or something, okay, a cheap shot took him down, but all through this series, all I could think of was "did Wakanda also take away ALL his skills when they took away the programming, b/c this Bucky should have super-ish senses, super fighting skills, and super tactics...and so far, he's got none of that."

 

3rd, so the heroes fight with Zemo, let the Wakandans take him, and the governments don't care, and we just ignore that detail...right...and John Walker doesn't bring it up in his rants to try to save himself...right...

 

4th, oh why keep going...I said I could write a book, and then if I do keep going, I'll be there:)...

 

[Menor the Destroyer]

31 minutes ago, TwoMisfits said:

You know what else has really bothered me about this show...what superheroes 

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1st lackadaisically get involved in stopping a villain, and then decide, while the villain is actually still damn powerful and floating around causing mass destruction, to just quit and leave it alone, b/c the "government" has now taken over.  Or at least quit til someone "gets them a lead."  Like isn't that their job as the superhero?  To find the damn leads and track this stuff down and stop it?  Not to just quit, throw up their hands, and say "oh well, they'll get back to us when they need us?  For now, I'm out b/c I have so many more things to do as Bucky..."

 

2nd, even if the bad guys are super soldiers, they are untrained, non-fighters.  The fact that any of them could fight Bucky one on one is ridiculous.  He has 80 years of training, and was bada$$ enough to beat Cap and fight him to standstills.  If he got jumped by the soldiers 4-on-1, or something, okay, a cheap shot took him down, but all through this series, all I could think of was "did Wakanda also take away ALL his skills when they took away the programming, b/c this Bucky should have super-ish senses, super fighting skills, and super tactics...and so far, he's got none of that."

 

3rd, so the heroes fight with Zemo, let the Wakandans take him, and the governments don't care, and we just ignore that detail...right...and John Walker doesn't bring it up in his rants to try to save himself...right...

 

4th, oh why keep going...I said I could write a book, and then if I do keep going, I'll be there:)...

 

Spoiler

For 1), it was a good strategy since they have people like Torres who specialize in tracking down said leads, while Bucky and Sam are mostly fighters. And it worked, since Torres located the FS in New York. 

 

2) This doesn't actually happen. Bucky fights the FS twice in the series. In the 2nd episode he is taken by surprise since he didn't realize Karli was a super soldier, and doesn't really get much of a chance to fight. In the 4th episode, now that he is prepared, he easily beats all of them that he faces. The only people who have competed with Bucky in a fight so far are the Dora (using the cheap trick with his arm) and serum-boosted Walker (who we know is a very well-trained fighter in his own right). 

 

3) The Wakandans took him to the Raft. The Raft is an international prison so I doubt governments would complain that he is back in custody. And why would Walker bring up something that makes his operation look bad? His goal is to exonerate himself. 

 

Edited April 17, 2021 by Menor

[Valonqar]

2 hours ago, Menor said:

 

I see that my critique hit the nerve cause you missed that my post was written under "I think" (as in my opinion only, not a fact) caveat. yes, I think that the show is given a pass. I think. Not "show is given a pass" which would be stating a fact instead of an opinion.  And, heh, I could see and feel a finger pointed at me poking me in the chest from your reply. You! You! YOU!  (good natured laugh)

Anyway, if you are unsure whether I think that people who like this show are stupid, I assure you that I don't. I think it's perfectly normal to like one element so much to go easy on the rest because I do that too. If a movie or a show stick the landing after a rocky ride, I always give them a pass because I'm a sucker for good ending. If not, I don't forgive (see GOT) so points eternally docked. As in "don't care how good you were you are now dead to me".  (yes I'm THAT extreme). But again, it's my opinion not a fact. Same goes for my pet peeves. My only not everyone's pet peeve/opinion/other. 

 

@TwoMisfits agreed.  As @charlie Jatinder noted in his previous post, most of things just happen without any proper flow to them. 

 

 

 

Edited April 17, 2021 by Valonqar

[TwoMisfits]

17 minutes ago, Menor said:

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For 1), it was a good strategy since they have people like Torres who specialize in tracking down said leads, while Bucky and Sam are mostly fighters. And it worked, since Torres located the FS in New York. 

 

2) This doesn't actually happen. Bucky fights the FS twice in the series. In the 2nd episode he is taken by surprise since he didn't realize Karli was a super soldier, and doesn't really get much of a chance to fight. In the 4th episode, now that he is prepared, he easily beats all of them that he faces. The only people who have competed with Bucky in a fight so far are the Dora (using the cheap trick with his arm) and serum-boosted Walker (who we know is a very well-trained fighter in his own right). 

 

3) The Wakandans took him to the Raft. The Raft is an international prison so I doubt governments would complain that he is back in custody. And why would Walker bring up something that makes his operation look bad? His goal is to exonerate himself. 

 

Spoiler

 

Bucky doesn't have people...in fact, that was kinda brought up in episode 5...just going along with the "I quit for now" - ehh.  And it's just bad superhero show.  The episode didn't focus on people immediately finding them - instead, you got the buddy buddy (which was the best part of the episode) and then worse, the extended montage...which if it's to be considered a "true" montage had to take "time", like weeks or months...or it's just even stupider...so they were sitting on their hands that long?

 

And Bucky doesn't get surprised - see super solider enhanced senses.  I mean, in 80 years, he hasn't ever had a super jump him...really?  hello, previous movies...at most, he's down for a sec, and then smoking them...

 

And The Raft - dude is bad enough to go on the Raft, but government ignores (effectively saying it's okay) that Bucky helped release him b/c he put him back eventually?  The 3 of them had to be on camera in multiple cities working together b/c they were in the camps (let alone at the airports flying on the plane together)...it's driving me nuts that we ignore the high tech when again, we can't plot around it, and we don't when we need it (finding Sam through Redwing)...and we excuse "the heroes" actions with no words but come down on John Walker like a bag of bricks...he lost it when his friend died, but his "bad" action was emotional...our heroes bad action was stone cold...  

 

 

Edited April 17, 2021 by TwoMisfits

[Madhuvan]

They made some strong points but frankly speaking Sam as lead is getting overshadowed more and more every episode.

Is he written like this or what?? Bucky , Ayo , John Walker , Zemo , Isaiah , Torres and even her sister have successfully overshadowed him in this series.

How are we to root for someone when every other character is more interesting. 

 

Writing flaws are more and more clear this episode.

I have also heard rumors that the reason Flagsmashers and Power broker storyline seems badly executed is because this was added in reshoots. The storyline was different. 

Spoiler

 It was about releasing some virus but they changed because of covid-19 similarity. 

 

I am more interested what will happen with future storyline that are slowly coming to life rather than Sam Wilson as Captain America. None of them is fit to be Cap.

[TwoMisfits]

Spoiler

One more thing about the montage, which to me is as bad as the "Martha" moment was for DC for ridiculousness...Sam was EASILY throwing the shield around with Bucky FIVE MINUTES before in the episode, bouncing it off 3 trees and playing back and forth catch...and now, he can't catch it in one bounce...really???  Now, if I was on the production team, I'd say they stole the epilogue episode 6 scene and shoved it in to this one and hoped we wouldn't notice...sorry, we did...bad plotting and pacing in a nutshell...

 

Sorry, but sometimes there are moments that are just so bad, they torch even the goodness that was there...

[Madhuvan]

28 minutes ago, TwoMisfits said:

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One more thing about the montage, which to me is as bad as the "Martha" moment was for DC for ridiculousness...Sam was EASILY throwing the shield around with Bucky FIVE MINUTES before in the episode, bouncing it off 3 trees and playing back and forth catch...and now, he can't catch it in one bounce...really???  Now, if I was on the production team, I'd say they stole the epilogue episode 6 scene and shoved it in to this one and hoped we wouldn't notice...sorry, we did...bad plotting and pacing in a nutshell...

 

Sorry, but sometimes there are moments that are just so bad, they torch even the goodness that was there...

dk if you are right or not but even I thought that would have been epilogue.

 

Believing some rumors , you might actually be right. 

Spoiler

This power broker stroyline was added later on as per many sources. Guess we have to wait for credible news after end of the season.