The Marvels | November 10, 2023 | Abandon All Hope Ye Who Enter

[Shindaya]

18 minutes ago, Willowra said:

Did the movie hint at or show any future arc of Captain Marvel? I mean, we know about post-credit spoilers, but is there anything in the movie that indicates or shows what the future arc of Carol is going to be after this movie? You can DM me or reply with spoilers tag.

Spoiler

being honest here, nope.

 

[Warmaster506]

Well I'm taking my daughter to see it and I hope its good. 

 

Flash was good despite everything around it. Hopefully the same for this. 

[Killimano3]

I definitely agree Captain Marvel was written to be way too much of an immortal God in terms of power level. It's the same reason i've never found superman compelling (plus his one weakness is just "Bad guy brought green rock").

 

Other Marvel characters have shown to be of very high power level (Thor, Hulk, etc.) but at no point have they ever really made any of them seem similar to Captain Marvel. I mean Captain Marvel was literally one-shotting entire space fleets, which Idk if anyone else has really done in MCU. Even the other powerful heroes were shown to have real weaknesses from the beginning, Hulk has no control over his power when introduced, and Thor does essentially nothing except constantly lose lol.

 

The only other real "OP" characters that come to mind immediately would be Doctor Strange (tho he only briefly had control over "ultimate power" and then I guess just decided never to use it again?) and Wanda (Who was a villain which made it a bit more interesting)

 

Now taking that into mind I feel like 99% of the reason random internet people hate Cpt. Marvel is definitely because they hate women. I found her overpowered abilities made her less compelling but she was still a fine character personality-wise, and her movie wasn't perfect but it was fun. She's hardly the only character in the MCU that wasn't written completely perfect, and she definitely draws an unequal amount of hate on the internet.

 

I also think that it's important to note that the way she was written was likely a very specific attempt to appeal the movie more to women and draw more women into the franchise. It's hardly the first time that "perfect protagonists" have been culturally "in". Tons of classic stories have the "Chosen One" hero who is never beaten and never seems to struggle. Nowadays we've generally trended away from that and want to see more "Human" heroes who struggle and lose and need to risk something in order to succeed, but just because that's what male comic book fans want to see doesn't necessarily mean it aligns with what most women want to see, and that's clearly the audience they were trying to court with that film.

[Willowra]

15 minutes ago, Torontofan said:

 

Thor got humbled by the ice giants and his father took away all his powers lol

 

Hulk was very powerful but it was at great personal cost to Dr. Banner 

They don't hate her because she is strong; they hate her because they showed that she is stronger than Hulk or Thor. They think that she didn't earn anything to become stronger than Hulk or Thor, but they should've realized that she absorbed the power of an infinity stone, and that's why she is strong. Yes they think that she can easily defeat villain so she is boring but the trailer of The Marvels made it clear that villain is more powerful than her & all 3 are fighting the villain then why they still saying that she is like Superman & solves everything easily?

[Willowra]

17 minutes ago, Shindaya said:

  Reveal hidden contents

being honest here, nope.

 

Spoiler

Then they are either going slow with the character or she was just a plot device to setup future arc of other 2 characters & will either sideline her or completely remove her from the MCU after this movie.

 

[SpiderByte]

God all this endless discourse will become absolutely hilarious if the reviews come in and it's not the worst movie of all time everyone is convinced that it is.

[MysteryMovieMogul]

1 minute ago, SpiderByte said:

God all this endless discourse will become absolutely hilarious if the reviews come in and it's not the worst movie of all time everyone is convinced that it is.

Although this forum is more rational than other spaces online, this thread is still overwhelmingly people who want to see this movie fail critically and financially.

[Zakiyyah6]

Okay if Marvel made these films to primarily be directed towards women then riddle me this? Why aren't more women biting? Women can get Barbie to 162M and the Twilight films to 140M openings then why aren't more women supporting The Marvels to make up for the men that aren't interested? What did Marvel do wrong, when it comes to attracting more women and girls?

[SpiderByte]

4 minutes ago, MysteryMovieMogul said:

Although this forum is more rational than other spaces online, this thread is still overwhelmingly people who want to see this movie fail critically and financially.

The craziest part is they absolutely did not react this way when Blue Beetle opened, so it's not just "having fun about a movie opening badly". People fucking hate this movie for some reason.

Edited October 31, 2023 by SpiderByte

[Willowra]

12 minutes ago, Zakiyyah6 said:

Okay if Marvel made these films to primarily be directed towards women then riddle me this? Why aren't more women biting? Women can get Barbie to 162M and the Twilight films to 140M openings then why aren't more women supporting The Marvels to make up for the men that aren't interested? What did Marvel do wrong, when it comes to attracting more women and girls?

Because 1st one was released 4.5 years ago & it had good message for them but it wasn't good in action or entertainment level. Most of the female audience I think are casual audience & the character faded away from the minds of those female audience in those 4.5 years & they got projects like Barbie & Taylor Swift movie which appealed to them more than The Marvels. Also a survey is needed whether females like to watch a diverse movie with both female & male as leads or they like to watch an all female lead movie like The Marvels more. I think they like to watch a diverse movie more than all female lead movie.

[TwoMisfits]

17 minutes ago, SpiderByte said:

God all this endless discourse will become absolutely hilarious if the reviews come in and it's not the worst movie of all time everyone is convinced that it is.

 

I see Marvels like Shazam 2 (which, is kinda funny, since they both are "Marvel") - it's disinterest, not hate.  It's probably a "fine enough/passable" movie (Shazam 2 was), but it won't matter b/c the "under 25" talk is to take a pass on this - and once that gains steam, it's kinda unstoppable.  You can't change the momentum easily.  Shazam 2 never did, and right now (having seen my kids and their online and in-person friends' and acquaintances' reactions), I don't think The Marvels will, either.  It truly has to rely on its MCU base, and that also seems shaky for this movie,

Edited October 31, 2023 by TwoMisfits

[Bob Train]

11 minutes ago, SpiderByte said:

The craziest part is they absolutely did not react this way when Blue Beetle opened, so it's not just "having fun about a movie opening badly". People fucking hate this movie for some reason.

Gloating over Blue Beetle bombing is like kicking a wounded 3-legged dog. Also, it was one of the most obvious bombs of all time, whereas this was not, and many including myself thought it would be doing much better than tracking is indicating.

[TwoMisfits]

14 minutes ago, SpiderByte said:

The craziest part is they absolutely did not react this way when Blue Beetle opened, so it's not just "having fun about a movie opening badly". People fucking hate this movie for some reason.

 

B/c that Blue Beetle bomb was seen a mile away, thanks to Shazam 2 and Flash...then, it was the expectation.  What more was to be said about it dying as expected (and it wasn't more than passable, either)...

 

This MCU bomb-level is new for MCU...

[Shindaya]

24 minutes ago, Willowra said:

  Hide contents

Then they are either going slow with the character or she was just a plot device to setup future arc of other 2 characters & will either sideline her or completely remove her from the MCU after this movie.

 

Spoiler

yeah they kinda wrap up her "mini-arc" but tbh none of the characters even really have an arc in the movie. But Monica and Kamala are the only characters in the movie that are used to tease future projects. Carol could be done for good after this movie and it would make complete sense (which is too bad because I actually like Brie in this one)

 

[MysteryMovieMogul]

1 minute ago, Bob Train said:

Gloating over Blue Beetle bombing is like kicking a wounded 3-legged dog. Also, it was one of the most obvious bombs of all time, whereas this was not, and many including myself thought it would be doing much better than tracking is indicating.

I'm surprised people are surprised, tbh.

 

And I know people want to use FNAF as an example of a film not affected by the strikes, but that film was SAG strike proof because no one was going to the film for the actors. They were going for the animatronics.

 

All films are suffering due to the strike. Again, I'm going to point to Indiana Jones doing better than Mission Impossible. I forgot, until now, that one film was released before the strikes (Indy) and one was released after (MI). And the one that got to promote did better here in the US!

[AnotherDayAnotherDollar]

2 hours ago, cooldude97 said:

i wonder what marvel regrets the most with this multiverse saga

 

making Kang the overreaching villain or having ant-man beat him

 

Probably thinking they were untouchable and had the Midas touch no matter what they released.

[PlatnumRoyce]

 

35 minutes ago, Killimano3 said:

I definitely agree Captain Marvel was written to be way too much of an immortal God in terms of power level. It's the same reason i've never found superman compelling (plus his one weakness is just "Bad guy brought green rock").

 

Other Marvel characters have shown to be of very high power level (Thor, Hulk, etc.) but at no point have they ever really made any of them seem similar to Captain Marvel. I mean Captain Marvel was literally one-shotting entire space fleets, which Idk if anyone else has really done in MCU. Even the other powerful heroes were shown to have real weaknesses from the beginning, Hulk has no control over his power when introduced, and Thor does essentially nothing except constantly lose lol.

This really undersells the randomness of Thor's power level. 
 

where he basically one shots the invasion fleet until Tony can seal the portal.
and 

where he's basically able to single handedly take down thanos (including effortlessly swatting away infinity gauntlet's power) and brush past any opposition. 

 

These don't really fit with other scenes where he has a more balanced power level.  

[Bob Train]

1 minute ago, MysteryMovieMogul said:

I'm surprised people are surprised, tbh.

 

And I know people want to use FNAF as an example of a film not affected by the strikes, but that film was SAG strike proof because no one was going to the film for the actors. They were going for the animatronics.

 

All films are suffering due to the strike. Again, I'm going to point to Indiana Jones doing better than Mission Impossible. I forgot, until now, that one film was released before the strikes (Indy) and one was released after (MI). And the one that got to promote did better here in the US!

Everyone (or as close as you can get to "everyone" on the internet) knew this would come down hard from the first one due to China, and the fact that the first was massively boosted by Endgame (just like Alice in Wonderland was by being the first 3D movie after Avatar).

 

Other factors against it that some were less confident in were the "no1curr" factor in regards to the character of Captain Marvel, the Disney+ sidekicks, and CBM fatigue.

 

But even still, I thought it would at least be able to open $90m-$100m due to being the first MCU movie in 6 months since the well-received Guardians 3. But that had 0 tangible effect.

[Zakiyyah6]

9 minutes ago, Willowra said:

Because 1st one was released 4.5 years ago & it had good message for them but it wasn't good in action or entertainment level. Most of the female audience I think are casual audience & the character faded away from the minds of those female audience in those 4.5 years & they got projects like Barbie & Taylor Swift movie which appealed to them more than The Marvels. Also a survey is needed whether females like to watch a diverse movie with both female & male as leads or they like to watch an all female lead movie like The Marvels more. I think they like to watch a diverse movie more than all female lead movie.

I hope that I don't have to turn in my feminist card by saying this but yes, I absolutely believe that female led action films do better when they have a strong male lead and other male characters that are not the villain. I know there are a lot of women online who don't want to admit this but I think that is true. I've had to gather up the courage to say this because people are going to say that it's not fair and maybe it's not but I think it's true. The Marvels is looking like another Birds of Prey and what did those films have in common? Hmm, take a guess.

[JustLurking]

36 minutes ago, Zakiyyah6 said:

Okay if Marvel made these films to primarily be directed towards women then riddle me this? Why aren't more women biting? Women can get Barbie to 162M and the Twilight films to 140M openings then why aren't more women supporting The Marvels to make up for the men that aren't interested? What did Marvel do wrong, when it comes to attracting more women and girls?

Are they directing them towards women? Captain Marvel could've worked just as well if Carol was a guy, there wasn't really anything that screamed it was made for a different demo and that's because I don't think they are, really? It's an MCU film made for MCU fans, it's not an MCU film made for female MCU fans or viceversa.

 

Forget the right-wing nutsos that were never going to show up, there's no reason for girls to be significantly more interested in this than their boys counterparts, making the same film with a different gender lead doesn't significantly change the demo which is why yeah, captain marvel was slightly more female-skewing, but it was still a male-skewing audience film.

Edited October 31, 2023 by JustLurking