Father’s Day/Juneteenth Weekend Thread | Flash implodes with 55M, Elemental bombs with 29M, holdovers hold atrociously | Theaters are dead, streaming is dead. Everything is dead really.

[excel1]

3 minutes ago, DAJK said:

Kind of a shame that both big movies this weekend were really solid films and they’re both the bombs of the year. Oh well, you win some you lose some. I’ve kind of accepted that me and critics, or me and audiences, won’t always agree on every movie. And that’s completely okay.

 

I just hope Muschiettei continues to get work.

 

I, for one, do not think the jury is out on the legs of either film. Muschietti will no doubt continue to get work. Frankly, THE FLASH seems like one of those films that in 5 years, many will look back on very fondly. 

[PlatnumRoyce]

3 minutes ago, DAJK said:

I just hope Muschiettei continues to get work.

 

At the core of the marketing hyperbole is the fact that the studio self-evidently believed in the film. The director was a hired hand on this project and I don't think anyone at WB has criticisms of how Muschiettei handled Miller situation. It's not a big win for Muschiettei but it's hard to see WB not wanting to work with him after doing at the very least yeoman's work. 

[Gopher]

I'm fairly optimistic about No Hard Feelings getting solid walkups next weekend but it's likely we're looking at a June weekend where nothing hits 20 mil, which is kind of nuts...

 

Spiderverse: 19.6

Flash: 18.5

Elemental: 17.3

No Hard Feelings: 17

Transformers 12

Asteroid City: 10

[PlatnumRoyce]

5 hours ago, titanic2187 said:

The disinterest of female audience going back to theater has been a "headache" for theater chain in post-Covid era. People may underestimate just how much BO was lost because of resistance from female audience. Take a example at JW4, the $73.8m OW attract 31% female but the movie would have gone up to $81m OW, if JW4 managed to attract just as much as female share like JW3 (37%).  

 

 

 

 

 

In 2021 the posttrak overall average population was 45% female versus 49% female in 2019. I think some of that is due to composition of movies but that's a reasonable benchmark of the change (both numbers come from MPAA THEME REPORTS)

[21C]

14 minutes ago, AMC Theaters Enjoyer said:

Muschietti will be okay. He and his sister still have the It movies and Mama under their belts and I’m sure they’ll stay on Brave And The Bold. At most if they don’t do another big budget film for a while they’ll just go back to horror like that Howling remake they announced a few years ago. Or maybe WB will move them to that Attack On Titan movie instead of Brave And The Bold.

I'd like to point out that not a single Marvel or DC director that has gotten a B Cinemascore has managed to get work on another blockbuster immediately after the film that has gotten them a B, especially in the last 10 years. And in fact, if you go down the list, most of them have straight up never been able to get their careers back on track the same way afterwards.

The Muschiettis careers are far from ruined, but a B Cinemascore and a flop of this magnitude is a big stain that loses them a lot of capital and the fact that a lot of the criticisms of the movie do fall under their direct watch like the CGI is something that does not do them any favors. I've said it before, but I can't imagine them staying. Studios are not that loyal. They're especially not loyal when they get embarrassed and when they lose this amount of money, and if anything they're gonna be looking for reasons to shift more of the blame onto the Muschiettis, rather than trying to excuse them for it. Zaslav in particular is someone that got pretty humilliated in this process, and that has already shown to be mega cutthroat.
 

 

9 minutes ago, PlatnumRoyce said:

 

At the core of the marketing hyperbole is the fact that the studio self-evidently believed in the film. The director was a hired hand on this project and I don't think anyone at WB has criticisms of how Muschiettei handled Miller situation. It's not a big win for Muschiettei but it's hard to see WB not wanting to work with him after doing at the very least yeoman's work. 

I think they'll get more work on streaming and for horror films, but the Brave and the Bold thing is not going to last. Even if Gunn & Safran want to bat for them, I really think they just wouldn't be able to keep them because they're too big a risk for a movie that they /need/ to do well. WBD is not gonna want to invest 200 million in them again, or trust them with their biggest property. You can make 100 excuses for them but when attached to a flop of this magnitude, they do become financially toxic at least for big projects.

 

Edited June 19, 2023 by 21C

[baumer]

1 hour ago, FunkMiller said:

More or less the entire superhero genre these days. Phase 4 and 5 of the MCU has seen a dramatic drop off in quality across the board (GotG 3 being the single exception probably) in terms of story, character, and FX. The DCEU has been a basket case for years, with poor movie after poor movie. The studios have taken the audience for granted.
 

On top of all that is Disney’s terrible treatment of Star Wars… and I very much doubt Indy 5 will be any different.

 

We are bombarded with CGI laden, poorly thought out movies, with bad story and paper thin characters, from an industry that is creatively extremely tired, and in dire need of a shake up, and some fresh blood.

 

The more major studios are punished for cynical movie making, the happier I am. 

 

Love this post.

[El Gato]

1 hour ago, TMP said:

Remainder of the year so ED: R doesn't count, but the Nun had toxic WOM to the point where I think it'll have a sizable drop. Also I've just given up on Blue Beetle, when even the trailer looks like a cartoon network original movie you know it's gonna have a bad run

The Nun 2 has a perfect release date and I wouldn’t say the first had toxic WOM when it’s the highest grossing film in the Conjuring Universe. 

 

Blue Beetle has had a good reaction from the younger generation though and its trailer has way more likes than The Flash/Shazam 2 did. So I’m still rooting for it 
 

1 hour ago, Flopped said:

Do you know the budget on Nun 2? 

WB treated Evil Dead Rise like an afterthought but it made almost 10x its budgets in theatres 

Don’t know the budget for The Nun 2 but it’s probably low. The first film only had a 22M budget so maybe the same range for the sequel 

[CJohn]

18 minutes ago, Gopher said:

I'm fairly optimistic about No Hard Feelings getting solid walkups next weekend but it's likely we're looking at a June weekend where nothing hits 20 mil, which is kind of nuts...

 

Spiderverse: 19.6

Flash: 18.5

Elemental: 17.3

No Hard Feelings: 17

Transformers 12

Asteroid City: 10

Apparently No Hard Feelings is bad according to first reactions coming from the previews of this weekend. I don't see it going above 10M for the weekend.

[dudalb]

31 minutes ago, excel1 said:

 

I, for one, do not think the jury is out on the legs of either film. Muschietti will no doubt continue to get work. Frankly, THE FLASH seems like one of those films that in 5 years, many will look back on very fondly. 

GIve it up, guy. The Flash is a bombing badly, and is going lose WB a lot of money,

I note that everytime a blockbuster genre films bombs we hear thie "In a few years this film will find an audience" stuff. Maybe, but it won't make the WB shareholders any happier.

[dudalb]

Problem Muschettis have is now they I amsure the term 'One Hit Wonder" is beinb used about them.

[IronJimbo & Sheldon's Son]

1 hour ago, Boxx93 said:

In the 60s the big budget musicals/westerns/biblical movies where bombing harder with each new release, witch lead to an era of more bold and daring low budget movies that gave birth to the New Age Hollywood in the late 60s and early 70s. The comic book/IP Franchises/Disney movies are the equivalent of that in the 2020s. Movies like EEAAO from A24 proved that small budget movies can be successful in theaters and not just rely on streaming.

 

We are slowly entering in a new era, we just don't know what kind of movies will dominate the box office just yet.

I, for one, look forward to the upcoming teenage kraken era.

[Mr Terrific]

Flash is just a mess. It’s not so much terrible as there’s nothing fresh about it. Part of why I like James Gunn so much is that he can balance cb action/drama and some lightness. This movie had no idea how to do that. 
 

[PlatnumRoyce]

34 minutes ago, 21C said:

I'd like to point out that not a single Marvel or DC director

 

I could be completely off on this claim (really more feeling it out), but, to me, the key question is if the comps set is "superhero movie" or if it's "film in trouble/film studio needs a helping hand with." I've definitely heard of the latter happening a number of times but I'm drawing a blank on specifics. 

Kenneth Branaugh's still getting a haunting in Venice after Artimis Fowl and Murder on the Nile (which had the whole Armie Hammer kerfuffle). Not best possible example but I do think there's something to it. 

 

Quote

WBD is not gonna want to invest 200 million in them again, or trust them with their biggest property

 

I guess that's another part of the key definitional question. WB didn't really invest 200 million in them, they hired them to direct a 200M movie whose bones had been decided ahead of time and were substantially related to broad corporate strategy (which changed another 3 or 4 times before it was ultimately released.

 

Quote

Blame/excuse the directors

Honestly, I doubt the director gets focused on very much. No one knows who they are, Ezra Miller is right there and blaming the lack of an "earned media" tour is obviously a narrative the media that profits from those interviews would be willing to run with. 

 

 

Quote

and the fact that a lot of the criticisms of the movie do fall under their direct watch like the CGI is

Sure, but CGI is also related to other stuff like budget and studio meddling. It's going to be interesting to see how blame fully shakes out. Also, if the studio was really concerned about how the CGI was shaking up, they wouldn't have gone full steam ahead with abnormal early previews. 

 

Now, the real backdown is more that for Batman specifically, I agree there's a good chance he's fired. This isn't even something like Inception, it's a too big to fail linchpin of next __ years of WB's slate that has a lot working against it (hyper condensed Batman reboot following a short reboot).  

[excel1]

Remember that "WB" is just a group of people...that has almost entirely turned over since production on Flash began.  "WB isn't going to do this again"...most of them didn't do this the first time. It was a leftover.

[21C]

21 minutes ago, PlatnumRoyce said:

 

I could be completely off on this claim (really more feeling it out), but, to me, the key question is if the comps set is "superhero movie" or if it's "film in trouble/film studio needs a helping hand with." I've definitely heard of the latter happening a number of times but I'm drawing a blank on specifics. 

Kenneth Branaugh's still getting a haunting in Venice after Artimis Fowl and Murder on the Nile (which had the whole Armie Hammer kerfuffle). Not best possible example but I do think there's something to it. 

 

 

I guess that's another part of the key definitional question. WB didn't really invest 200 million in them, they hired them to direct a 200M movie whose bones had been decided ahead of time and were substantially related to broad corporate strategy (which changed another 3 or 4 times before it was ultimately released.

 

Honestly, I doubt the director gets focused on very much. No one knows who they are, Ezra Miller is right there and blaming the lack of an "earned media" tour is obviously a narrative the media that profits from those interviews would be willing to run with. 

 

 

Sure, but CGI is also related to other stuff like budget and studio meddling. It's going to be interesting to see how blame fully shakes out. Also, if the studio was really concerned about how the CGI was shaking up, they wouldn't have gone full steam ahead with abnormal early previews. 

 

Now, the real backdown is more that for Batman specifically, I agree there's a good chance he's fired. This isn't even something like Inception, it's a too big to fail linchpin of next __ years of WB's slate that has a lot working against it (hyper condensed Batman reboot following a short reboot).  

The thing is... everyone keeps talking about studio meddling when it comes to this film when quite literally the only scene that was a product of studio meddling is the very last 30 seconds. That's it. Aside from that there's been quite genuinely zero actual reports of the studio messing with the film beyond that. Whatever reshoots they did really were indeed pickup shots since they lasted ridiculously little and appareantly were inconsequential as the last cut of the film still largely lines up with even leaks from test screenings up until a year and a half ago (which if I recall, predated the merger)

The Muschiettis only had studio meddling in the sense that they were given the story for the movie (Flashpoint adaptation in DCEU with Keaton Batman instead of Thomas Wayne) and they were hired to direct it, other than that, even they have been incredibly open in their interviews about how pretty much most of the movie was their idea and they've gone into great detail about how most of what the film ended up being came from them. The cameos were their idea, the action set pieces were their idea. This whole notion that this film is this sort of incredibly troubled production where everything changed every 5 seconds is also  just not true; everything surrounding the movie was troubled, and prior to the Muschiettis getting attached it was on a limbo,  but by all accounts everything flew smoothly once the Muschiettis went onboard with Christina Hodson, with the only thing getting reshuffled being those last 30 seconds.

There are also zero indication WBD ever rushed the Muschiettis. If anything, they delayed the film several times to give them more time for the VFX. This is a case where you can absolutely lay a lot of the blame for the final product of the movie on them;  they themselves have taken ownership of it in every interview and there's been zero reports that even hint to the fact they somehow were rushed, especially as most of the work they did was under Walter Hamada who was very hands-off with his directors. 


This isn't a David Ayer situation where the studio messed with his cut last second, it isn't even a Zack Snyder situation. The Muschiettis were hired to do a job, and the job they did landed a B Cinemascore. The blame for that reception does lay on them. 
 

Edited June 19, 2023 by 21C

[Torontofan]

I feel infinity war...no way home type films would made record business in today's market.

 

I just feel cinema is now just event cinema now.

[Willowra]

1 hour ago, Cap said:

Girl, we have been mourning this for a year. Even if it’s perfection, it stands no chance. Too many people want it to fail. 

Captain Marvel is at the forefront of the new Disney+ Marvel banner, along with Captain America and the Scarlet Witch. They can create some buzz for the movie if they want, but I don't know for what reason they're not doing that. They made her the leader of the Avengers in comics this May; they can do the same for the MCU and create some buzz for the movie.

[THUNDER BIRD]

So there was a discussion about people not going to theaters anymore at night.

 

Not so simple solution to this problem is that..... Increase the theatrical window, not give stuff on streaming so easily, make people realize that waiting for it on streaming isn't an option.

 

Might be tough at start, but better in long run.

[THUNDER BIRD]

7 hours ago, Eric Prime said:

The whole “these movies are unappealing” stuff doesn’t track IMO. The Lion King remake is the lamest, most shameful “we only made this to make money” movie ever, and it still opened higher than the first Spider-Verse’s entire run. If anything, the only movies that breakout are almost all of the same action spectacle ilk and audiences have the least diverse taste and interest in movies ever.

The Lion King was appealing just because it's The Lion King. And it underperformed because it wasn't good.

 

And it's not so simple when it comes to that movie, apart from its issues, one of the factor affecting its quality was voice acting i suppose.

 

But i watched a version where voice acting was top notch and which wasn't lifeless, and had emotions, so it automatically makes it higher than English version.

 

Now it doesn't make it that good obviously, but atleast i didn't watch in theatre a completely lifeless and soulless version because people who dubbed in my country actually put effort into it.

 

Still wasn't a great movie and it underperformed, it could've done more, much more.

[XXR vs XXR]

Other markets could be performing differently so take this with a grain of salt, but Flash may actually increase today.