The Dark Knight Rises

[WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot]

I don't know. I think I may not have had as big a problem with Bruce not being Batman for 7-8 years if they had shown he did something. Anything. At all. He didn't have to put the mask back on and fight crime. Instead, he stagnates and pines for Rachel and becomes a hermit and allows his corporation to decay...

Just, man up, for crying out loud!

The fact that he doesn't even like being Bruce or Batman: ballsy? Maybe. Appealing for someone who already had major issues with this version of the character? Nope!

Edited July 24, 2012 by WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot

[Adm56]

Whether people like that aspect of it or not, it's quite a boring route for a superhero movie to take the more I think about it.

Fixed that for you.

IMO one of the reasons Iron-man 2 suffers a bit compared to the first one is that after being given a guy in Iron-Man 1 that actually ENJOYS being a hero we get yet another 'woe is me....my awesome powers/abilities are such a BURDEN' in the sequel. That can work sometimes (see how Peter Parker never manages to catch a break in the early Spidey films) but it's a fine line.

But hey at least they didn't pull a TASM and

try to make us feel sorry for a good looking Peter Parker that gets the hot girl immediately and is a dick to everyone in high school.

[Phil in the Blank]

I think that would have been an excellent idea! Then EVERYONE would clearly see how absurd a bomb with a FIVE MONTH timer is !

Lol the 5 month timer works fine in the context of this movie.Bruce Wayne is holed up in some prison with little hope to walk let alone escape, watching everything unfold on the news knowing that he has failed Gotham and there is nothing he can do. Imagine the mental toll on that for him. Most countdowns in movies cause tension, this countdown was designed to cause psychological stress and hence your comparison to Star Wars is pretty retarded IMO.

[Adm56]

But Bruce Wayne doesn't appear to suffer from any psychological stress based upon his time in prison. In fact despite his injuries and period of 'lost hope' he comes across as pretty foot loose and fancy free when he returns to Gotham. As I mentioned before there probably would have been a little more dramatic tension if he seemed to fear Bane a bit during their second fight. After all here is the first man to defeat him and send him to a chiropracter!

[Phil in the Blank]

He was certainly suffering in prison. He was angry and frustrated knowing that escape was so close, yet so far away and all the time that clock going tick tick tick tick tick.My impression was that Batman vs Bane part 2, the reason Batman showed so little fear was because Bane had thrown everything he had at him, tried to destroy him physically - and failed, tried to destroy him psychologically - and failed. Batman knew Bane had nothing left to throw at him.

[Adm56]

He was certainly suffering in prison. He was angry and frustrated knowing that escape was so close, yet so far away and all the time that clock going tick tick tick tick tick.My impression was that Batman vs Bane part 2, the reason Batman showed so little fear was because Bane had thrown everything he had at him, tried to destroy him physically - and failed, tried to destroy him psychologically - and failed. Batman knew Bane had nothing left to throw at him.

Fair enough...I suppose that's one way to look at it. I just don't like Bruce Wayne's arc and how Nolan handles it in this film.He starts off as...lets not mince words....a quiter. In a way this kills one of the better segments of the last film....Gordon's speech at the end. Are we to believe Batman was ever 'hunted'? Or did he quit immediately?And then he's literally lame. Someone else pointed it out earlier....they expected Batman to do something about Catwoman kicking his cane out from under him. Instead he just takes it as she scampers out the window. It might have been clever if the cane was a disguise of sorts....you know to cover up the fact that Batman and Bruce Wayne pretty much left the public eye all at once.Then he fairly miraculously recovers with the help of a high tech knee brace (the first unnecessary 'rise' for the film's title) only to have a limp dick falling out with a totally out of character Alfred over Rachel's letter.Okay...so now we have a Batman of sorts again....but sort of a sad sack one with little screen time...and he gets worked over by Bane in their first encounter. And while this point isn't strictly about his arc I think it makes more sense for Bane to leave him for dead....maybe even have Alfred pick him up in a kind of 'I didn't fail you after all Mr. Wayne!' moment and eliminate all the problematic prison BS. Unless of course you love that the climb from the prison looks a lot like the well from BB.Moving on to the sad sack Batman in prison. At this point I'd rather he come across as angry rather than so downtrodden. I'm sorry but it makes him seem even less like a badass. But don't worry after some folksy wisdom and a punch in the back from a friendly prison medic he's back in action!At this point ALL of the 'redemption' story relies on the audience buying into the climbing out of the pit metaphor because the rest of the film has little to no redemption involved with it. He seems to easily return to Gotham off screen, easily links up with the resistance and then easily defeats his nemisis Bane (although technically he just beats him up a bit since Catwoman finishes Bane off). Then he gets stabbed of course but I think whatsherface in Prometheus did a better job of showing the effects of injury from this point on than Batman does.And don't get me started on the fan service they all live happily ever after stuff. Because at this point you're providing a blissful ending to a character that at most faced a few bumps in the road rather than the amount of sacrifice required from him the previous films. Edited July 24, 2012 by Adm56

[redfirebird2008]

People are nitpicking about minor things like Bruce getting back to Gotham. I'm suprised no-one has mentioned batmans sacrifice at the end. It was impossible to to survive that blast yet for some reason batman did without any explanation what so ever seeing as you see him right at the end. That's lazy right there and actually made me feel cheated.

Actually it is explained when they say that Bruce Wayne fixed the autopilot in the Bat months prior to the climax of the story. Meaning he was driving the Bat through remote control instead of being in it at the time of the explosion.

[redfirebird2008]

Fair enough...I suppose that's one way to look at it. I just don't like Bruce Wayne's arc and how Nolan handles it in this film.He starts off as...lets not mince words....a quiter. In a way this kills one of the better segments of the last film....Gordon's speech at the end. Are we to believe Batman was ever 'hunted'? Or did he quit immediately?And then he's literally lame. Someone else pointed it out earlier....they expected Batman to do something about Catwoman kicking his cane out from under him. Instead he just takes it as she scampers out the window. It might have been clever if the cane was a disguise of sorts....you know to cover up the fact that Batman and Bruce Wayne pretty much left the public eye all at once.Then he fairly miraculously recovers with the help of a high tech knee brace (the first unnecessary 'rise' for the film's title) only to have a limp dick falling out with a totally out of character Alfred over Rachel's letter.Okay...so now we have a Batman of sorts again....but sort of a sad sack one with little screen time...and he gets worked over by Bane in their first encounter. And while this point isn't strictly about his arc I think it makes more sense for Bane to leave him for dead....maybe even have Alfred pick him up in a kind of 'I didn't fail you after all Mr. Wayne!' moment and eliminate all the problematic prison BS. Unless of course you love that the climb from the prison looks a lot like the well from BB.Moving on to the sad sack Batman in prison. At this point I'd rather he come across as angry rather than so downtrodden. I'm sorry but it makes him seem even less like a badass. But don't worry after some folksy wisdom and a punch in the back from a friendly prison medic he's back in action!At this point ALL of the 'redemption' story relies on the audience buying into the climbing out of the pit metaphor because the rest of the film has little to no redemption involved with it. He seems to easily return to Gotham off screen, easily links up with the resistance and then easily defeats his nemisis Bane (although technically he just beats him up a bit since Catwoman finishes Bane off). Then he gets stabbed of course but I think whatsherface in Prometheus did a better job of showing the effects of injury from this point on than Batman does.And don't get me started on the fan service they all live happily ever after stuff. Because at this point you're providing a blissful ending to a character that a most faced a few bumps in the road rather than the amount of sacrifice required from in the previous films.

A few bumps in the road? That's how you describe getting your back broken and your wealth completely stolen out from under your feet?

[BK007]

Actually it is explained when they say that Bruce Wayne fixed the autopilot in the Bat months prior to the climax of the story. Meaning he was driving the Bat through remote control instead of being in it at the time of the explosion.

He got into the Bat and flew off at the end. I think it's a cop out. It was not done well at all.The only redeeming bit was the acting quality of the foursome involved.

[Adm56]

A few bumps in the road? That's how you describe getting your back broken and your wealth completely stolen out from under your feet?

Yep...because despite these things happening to him both appear to be EASILY overcome and have no long lasting effect on Bruce Wayne. And being a comic book movie I'd almost be fine with that if it didn't totally destroy the tone of the film. There is no payoff from the 'rise' IMO because no real sacrifice is made.

Actually it is explained when they say that Bruce Wayne fixed the autopilot in the Bat months prior to the climax of the story. Meaning he was driving the Bat through remote control instead of being in it at the time of the explosion.

Yep...got it....autopilot....check. I don't think people are complaining about the autopilot as much as just a lack of any type of sacrifice by Bruce at the end. He must have some money because he's vacationing in Italy(? I forget) with a hot chick he just met. So he'll age gracefully from here on out with bad knees. Sounds like an NFL veteran to me. Edited July 24, 2012 by Adm56

[redfirebird2008]

He must have some money because he's vacationing in Italy(? I forget) with a hot chick he just met. So he'll age gracefully from here on out with bad knees. Sounds like an NFL veteran to me.

Or Selina has money from all the theft she does in her career. At one point Bruce kids with her about whether she's saving for retirement.

[MrPink]

Yep...because despite these things happening to him both appear to be EASILY overcome and have no long lasting effect on Bruce Wayne. And being a comic book movie I'd almost be fine with that if it didn't totally destroy the tone of the film. There is no payoff from the 'rise' IMO because no real sacrifice is made.Yep...got it....autopilot....check. I don't think people are complaining about the autopilot as much as just a lack of any type of sacrifice by Bruce at the end. He must have some money because he's vacationing in Italy(? I forget) with a hot chick he just met. So he'll age gracefully from here on out with bad knees. Sounds like an NFL veteran to me.

Well that's the point. Whether you agree with that or not is a different matter, but Alfred, Rachel, etc have continually made the point that Bruce needs to accept that he no longer needs or should be Batman anymore. This is probably divisive among Batman fans but within the context of Nolan's arc it makes sense. Bruce didn't want to learn how to live as a normal human being. The ending is the acceptance of that. Bruce never feared dying, he says as much in the prison. Dying for Bruce is an easy way out...he's been 'seeking' that end according to Alfred. Instead, he learned to live, for the sake of those who cared about him.

[Adm56]

Or Selina has money from all the theft she does in her career. At one point Bruce kids with her about whether she's saving for retirement.

So Batman has now been reduced to being a kept man with a sugar momma. Even better! Don't get me wrong...I'd totally be down with my wife making enough money that I could retire and take care of our cats but I'm not the Batman!

[MrPink]

So Batman has now been reduced to being a kept man with a sugar momma. Even better! Don't get me wrong...I'd totally be down with my wife making enough money that I could retire and take care of our cats but I'm not the Batman!

I see nothing wrong with this.

[Adm56]

Well that's the point. Whether you agree with that or not is a different matter, but Alfred, Rachel, etc have continually made the point that Bruce needs to accept that he no longer needs or should be Batman anymore. This is probably divisive among Batman fans but within the context of Nolan's arc it makes sense. Bruce didn't want to learn how to live as a normal human being. The ending is the acceptance of that. Bruce never feared dying, he says as much in the prison. Dying for Bruce is an easy way out...he's been 'seeking' that end according to Alfred. Instead, he learned to live, for the sake of those who cared about him.

'Learn to live' is for cry me a river movies on Lifetime. I can respect an addict that learns how to live....likewise with someone who suffers a terrible injury or from a disease. But I don't think Bruce Wayne qualifies in this film. As dramatic characters go he gets off prettly lightly considering he's over the death of his parents and also seems to have moved on from Rachel.

[MrPink]

'Learn to live' is for cry me a river movies on Lifetime. I can respect an addict that learns how to live....likewise with someone who suffers a terrible injury or from a disease. But I don't think Bruce Wayne qualifies in this film. As dramatic characters go he gets off prettly lightly considering he's over the death of his parents and also seems to have moved on from Rachel.

Eh, different strokes I guess. I got suckered in pretty good

[Adm56]

In TDKR Batman pretty much gets the Frodo ending and goes to the Grey Havens with Catwoman and her leather outfit.Now Frodo has some pretty f'd up shit happen to him. The trauma of the ring (touched by evil)...multiple physical injuries. Hell even Sam cheats on him and marries that woman.What does Bruce Wayne do to deserve his happy ending? Please tell me it's more than having a bad knee. Hell...I have no ACL in my right knee...

[The Dark Alfred]

But he can`t infiltrate Fox residence.

You should watch the movie with joy, not searching for mistake. You fail miserably at many occasions. When Bruce is talking to Selina about Fox he means that he needs her help to free him as he's taken by Bane.

lol at fanboys claiming any negative points are "nitpicking".Talia's motive was terrible. It comes across like an episode of a children's cartoon show. Completely unrealistic.Twists don't work when it doesn't fit in with the character and it doesn't.You could tell that when Batman was bashing Bane that Talia was the "bad guy" and I hoped against hope Nolan wouldn't resort to something as generic and stupid as that but he did. The entire conversation that then played out was awful up to her final breath.

Her motives were clear as daylight. She wanted to fulfill her father's plan. She was bad from the beginning if you watch the film multiple times you can see that she was in control all the time helping Bane.

This is just another thing. Driving home from work yesterday one of the friends I saw it with brought this up. She said while talking about it at work with people this came up. I guess I was distracted by other elements that this one slipped by, but yes how did Bane know where Applied Sciences was? I'm guessing that wasn't in Gordon's confession notes.

Umm, Talia? She gained Fox and Bruce's trust.

With Neeson and Murphy making cameos, and Eckhard being shown in memorial photos and flashbacks, the Joker is the only villain from the Nolanverse not appearing (or even being referenced) in TDKR. I understand Nolan didn't even want to give the slightest impression that he was trying to cash in on the memory of Ledger (and I honestly don't think that would have been his intentions if they had shown flashback footage through the course of telling the story.) But... would any of you have been offended if a) they referred to the Joker through dialogue only or option b- if they had used flashback footage from TDK like they did with a couple of quick snippets of Dent?I think it would have been unacceptable to recast the role or even have a stand-in for a silhouette or showing someone from behind with a purple coat and green hair. What's your opinion?

The events are 8 years later. Why would there be any mention of The Joker. If you include the character, do something with it. A cheap one-liner would have been awful.

In TDKR Batman pretty much gets the Frodo ending and goes to the Grey Havens with Catwoman and her leather outfit.Now Frodo has some pretty f'd up shit happen to him. The trauma of the ring (touched by evil)...multiple physical injuries. Hell even Sam cheats on him and marries that woman.What does Bruce Wayne do to deserve his happy ending? Please tell me it's more than having a bad knee. Hell...I have no ACL in my right knee...

Let's see what Bruce Wayne did. Saved the city. Sacrificed Batman in order to restore peace in Gotham, dealt with the mob and lost her love on the way. Saved the city the second time around, giving shelter to and fund for an orphanage, passed the torch to keep the legend alive if needed. Frodo my ass. Edited July 24, 2012 by The Dark Alfred

[4815162342]

Her motives were clear as daylight. She wanted to fulfill her father's plan. She was bad from the beginning if you watch the film multiple times you can see that she was in control all the time helping Bane.

And my problem with this (the villains really is the only spot of the film that I can't endorse at all) is that her father would be disappointed in her plan very much since she made it personal and twisted the League of Shadows from a justice/cleansing organization into a nihilistic cult. The League of Shadows died with Ra's al Ghul, what shows up in the film is a suicidal mockery of it.

[The Dark Alfred]

Not really. The main plan was to destroy Gotham. At the end of the day that's what matters. Talia's methods were different and more personal, but it's understandable.

Love this bit of the article about Bruce Wayne's journey in movies.com.

"The third film in a trilogy is a difficult one, especially when it's a superhero trilogy. The thought is that you need to bring your hero to his (or her) knees, both physically and mentally, andThe Dark Knight Rises does that. It sort of reminds us of the direction they're taking in Iron Man 3 -- to circle back to the character's beginnings; to make Bruce Wayne feel those same emotions he experienced back when he first decided to become the Batman. Many question how successful the film was during these scenes (especially Bruce's quick recovery time from a broken back), but we admire the attempt and liked how Nolan placed his hero at the bottom of a hole, both literally and figuratively.

To us this was Bruce Wayne's greatest challenge across all three of Nolan's Batman movies. Here's a man who fought so hard and for so long to rebuild the hope he lost when his parents were murdered, and to restore hope in a city that had lost it when master criminals tried to burn it to the ground. And now here's a man who, in order to save his life and his city, needs to return to that place he's spent a lifetime trying to escape from. Bruce needed to turn his biggest weakness into his strongest asset, and when you stop for a second and think about how difficult that is for a person -- how difficult that would be for you to do -- it makes you respect the character even more, and it makes you cherish what Christopher Nolan and his team were able to accomplish with this trilogy."