The Dark Knight Rises

[DeeCee]

How did Bane know where the R&D department was housing the tumblers if it was "off the books"?

Both Bane and Talia new all along that Bruce was Batman. Knowing that would have given some focus in tracking down possible locations for his armoury.

[fishstick]

There were several instances specifically mentioning time passed, both macro (59 days) and micro (12 hours left, 10 minutes left, etc).

Tele, they can mention time passed but if it isn`t felt than it doesn`t help. Transtion was off. Maybe it`s editing, maybe it`s costume department that left those buried cops in clean uniforms for 5 months. I dunno. But it didn`t work for me and obviously other people noticed it too.

[Gopher]

How did Bane know where the R&D department was housing the tumblers if it was "off the books"?

Bane and his army control the sewers. Where he fought Bruce was (most likely) one of his mainstays. He could have checked upstairs earlier on... also why Bane knew Batman's identity. There was also Talia as his inside info. There's plenty of assumptions to be made about character decisions throughout the film (ironic considering a line about coincidences in this very movie) but for me none of them felt out of place or took me out of watching their experiences. I believe Bruce can do just about anything because he's as versatile as Batman, so I can buy how he gets back to Gotham in a relatively short amount of time. Would I have liked to see how he got back? Maybe. But getting to the war between Bane's army and the police force seemed more exciting to me. Edited July 24, 2012 by Gopher

[Dementeleus]

TDKR feels to me like another film that I love, but which could've either been streamlined or expanded significantly: HEAT. Doesn't change my love for it, but that means I accept certain shorthand that could've been explored in much more detail.

[Adm56]

Yeah...did they send portable showers, shaving kits and a hand laundry down to the cops with food and water? They look pretty tidy when theu come out.Some folks say being forced to use Venom ruined Spidey 3. I'm starting to think the need to have Bane break Batman's back provided Nolan problems that he couldn't entirely deal with.IMO it would have worked better to cut the whole 'bad knees' rise out of the first act....have Bane break his back SOONER and then have the only remaining 'rise' in the film be the recovery from that. You could focus on Bane turning Gotham to hell on earth spliced in with Bruce's recovery and the insurgents having running battles with Bane's men. Bruce could be forced to watch it from Wayne manor if his secret identity is intact and you lose all that 'Batman is a quiter' from the beginning hat angers a lot of fans.

[fishstick]

IMO, Bruce`s return was so "already? WTF?" that it begged the question how. And that isn`t good because devices such as sudden returns mostly serve as uplifters and hope builders. They are not supposed to open the can of worms that is how the return happened step by step.

[DeeCee]

TDKR feels to me like another film that I love, but which could've either been streamlined or expanded significantly: HEAT.Doesn't change my love for it, but that means I accept certain shorthand that could've been explored in much more detail.

The Dark Knight Rises.The Dark Knight Rises Higher.

[Adm56]

Heatest?

[4815162342]

People who are criticizing TDKR's lack of showing how Bruce gets from the exterior shots of the Indian desert back into Gotham are strangely absent when given a chance to criticize audiences not being shown how Batman smuggles a kidnapped Lao all the way from China to the police's doorstep in Gotham in The Dark Knight.Showing us how Bruce got back into Gotham is unnecessary since it would have added more time to a film that was fully stuffed as is and probably would have thrown off the pacing a good bit. We saw that Special Forces guys were smuggled in via the supply shipments, so one could infer Bruce did something similar if one didn't want to overanalyze something.

[fishstick]

Yeah...did they send portable showers, shaving kits and a hand laundry down to the cops with food and water? They look pretty tidy when theu come out.Some folks say being forced to use Venom ruined Spidey 3. I'm starting to think the need to have Bane break Batman's back provided Nolan problems that he couldn't entirely deal with.IMO it would have worked better to cut the whole 'bad knees' rise out of the first act....have Bane break his back SOONER and then have the only remaining 'rise' in the film be the recovery from that. You could focus on Bane turning Gotham to hell on earth spliced in with Bruce's recovery and the insurgents having running battles with Bane's men. Bruce could be forced to watch it from Wayne manor if his secret identity is intact and you lose all that 'Batman is a quiter' from the beginning hat angers a lot of fans.

Totally. Cut the knee crap. Get to back breaking and siege much sooner so there`s time to develop plots such as a) pit as hell on earth (as opposed to chirocpactic paradise with plazma TV and cheer leading squad), life under siege and development of villains particulary Talia as well as giving Selina something to do that earns Bruce`s trust as opposed to out-of-blue "I trust you"(based on nothing). Also, as you mentioned before, don`t combine time bomb and long-running plots.

[DeeCee]

IMO, Bruce`s return was so "already? WTF?" that it begged the question how. And that isn`t good because devices such as sudden returns mostly serve as uplifters and hope builders. They are not supposed to open the can of worms that is how the return happened step by step.

IMO, I didn't give the slightest thought to how Bruce got back to Gotham. I didn't need to see him walk several kilometers, hitch a ride on a bus full of farmers with chickens in cages, find his way to a bigger port city, jump a freighter, and eventually find his way back into Gotham. Who cares? It adds nothing to the movie.

[Lordmandeep]

Yeah thats not important.I just think Talia was useless.She comes in the end stabs Batman in the back going"hahahaha you all die!!|

[4815162342]

If you take a good look, what Bane and Talia did to Gotham is essentially what The Joker was threatening to do at the end of TDK. There the Joker proclaimed that starting the next day the city was to become his playground and through fear blocked the use of the bridges and tunnels, leaving only surface highways and the ferrys as options. Now, I can imagine that Joker the following day may very well have severed all transportation routes in and out of Gotham, giving him some time to play havoc with the city and throw it into anarchy.What Bane and Talia did, severing all links to Gotham and turning things over to the inmates and angry lower class people to rum amok with is very much what Joker would have done in the sense of removing all rules to the old social order to see what happens next.

Edited July 24, 2012 by 4815162342

[The Dark Alfred]

depending on what you mean by expectations. For exmaple, my expectations weren`t met because I didn`t expect that the movie would be littered with dumb and illogical stuff that one can find in lesser director movies, since they weren`t typical for Nolan opus. Up until TDKR showed that even Nolan can toss logic out of the window despite swearing on a Bible that he based this movie in reality. Hell no. I mean, it`s a superhero flick so suspension of disbelief is needed. But not for stuff like Bruce`s appearance in Gothan after what seemed few hours. The sense of time and space was completely off. Bane occupies Gotham and than apparently flies Bruce to Indian desert and comes back all within minutes, hours, no real sense of time passage. And that`s just one example of many.

Certain directors assume minimum intelligence from the audience. Tiny things that one cut to another doesn't mean that the next scene is happening one second later. Bane had 5 month to bring Bruce to India and come back, what's wrong with you? Bruce didn't come back within hours? There were several weeks to go when he left the pit. Then we cut to the last day, because it's not a four hour film and it would have been boring and too much to spend more time on the Gotham under siege plot.

I still don't understand how he got into Gotham. How? And how did he leave the pit to get to Gotham?

He climbed out of the pit. I guess it was showed clearly. Why is it important how he got in? He's Batman for Pete's sake. If the government could sneak in their agents, surely a League of Shadows member could do it easily.

And I don`t understand how he could not get to Fox after managing to get to Gotham. I mena, isn`t the latter tougher than the former? Of course it is.

Fox was under arrest. When he said that he need to get to Fox it meant that he needed Selina's help. She did help to free him.

How did Bane know where the R&D department was housing the tumblers if it was "off the books"?

I guess Miranda/Talia working for Wayne Enterprises and gaining Foc and Bruce's trust has something to do with it.

IMO, Bruce`s return was so "already? WTF?" that it begged the question how. And that isn`t good because devices such as sudden returns mostly serve as uplifters and hope builders. They are not supposed to open the can of worms that is how the return happened step by step.

What's wrong with you again being obsessed with his return? It wasn't a sudden return, he spent months in the pit. When he climbed out there were still weeks to go. When he appears in Gotham it's final day. Perfect time keeping as he had a big journey that took a week at least.

[fishstick]

People who are criticizing TDKR's lack of showing how Bruce gets from the exterior shots of the Indian desert back into Gotham are strangely absent when given a chance to criticize audiences not being shown how Batman smuggles a kidnapped Lao all the way from China to the police's doorstep in Gotham in The Dark Knight.

Cause it didn`t bother us. Transition was better. TDK was hands down superior direction and superior script. So much so that plot holes were easy to overlook. Not so here.

Showing us how Bruce got back into Gotham is unnecessary since it would have added more time to a film that was fully stuffed as is and probably would have thrown off the pacing a good bit.

Nobody wants to see how it was done. It`s just that his appearance didn`t work as "Yay, Bruce will save the day!" as it was intended but as "WTF? "" Those moments are never meant to be explained and are never meant to make you think how. If you do than something went south.

We saw that Special Forces guys were smuggled in via the supply shipments, so one could infer Bruce did something similar if one didn't want to overanalyze something.

That`s fine except that he wasn`t coming back from other side of the bridge. he was coming back from middle of a desert somewhere across the ocean. And last time I checked, he was broke and Talia was in control of all his assets, accounts,etc. So movie wasn`t extremly helpful when it comes to filling in the blanks of his miraculous return that is somehow easier than reaching Fox.

[4815162342]

Bruce bummed around the world for 7 years. All he needed to do was bum his way back into the U.S., hitch a ride to the Gotham surburbs where Wayne Manor is, go into the Batcave for gear, and then figure out how to infiltrate a pretty big island that Bane doesn't have the men to patrol all of the borders of simultaneously. He could have gotten in the same way special forces people did, he could have found a safe way across the ice somewhere, he could have infiltrated via rowboat from the bayside, he could have done a HALO drop, etc.

Edited July 24, 2012 by 4815162342

[fishstick]

But he can`t infiltrate Fox residence. :rolleyes:Whatever, lets talk about lighting the Bat logo while standing on thin ice.

Edited July 24, 2012 by fishnets

[Adm56]

Proper transition seems to be under appreciated lately. Prometheus was similar in that IMO it lacked proper connective tissue between a lot of the scenes.I still think you get rid of the whole prison crap since it just complicates things but it's obvious that Nolan wanted the climb from the prison to tie in with the original well in BB that child Bruce falls down. He wanted it so much he made all this convoluted crap happen to get it done.What would it have been like in BB if Bruce is told to leave prison and climb the mountain only to cut to him entering the castle or whatever it was. It would be jarring. Instead we get a few VERY QUICK scenes that smooth the transition and give a sense of how difficult it was.Saying the audience will figure it out is lazy and half assed. I think it requires more effort to edit properly and have things link up well.

Edited July 24, 2012 by Adm56

[Adm56]

Bruce bummed around the world for 7 years. All he needed to do was bum his way back into the U.S., hitch a ride to the Gotham surburbs where Wayne Manor is, go into the Batcave for gear, and then figure out how to infiltrate a pretty big island that Bane doesn't have the men to patrol all of the borders of simultaneously. He could have gotten in the same way special forces people did, he could have found a safe way across the ice somewhere, he could have infiltrated via rowboat from the bayside, he could have done a HALO drop, etc.

Fine...he can do all this....but the timeline required crushes all dramatic tension. Especially when combined with a time bomb plot! Honestly...a time bomb with a 5 month timer belongs in a parody film by the folks that brought us Scary Movie etc.

[fishstick]

Fine...he can do all this....but the timeline required crushes all dramatic tension. Especially when combined with a time bomb plot! Honestly...a time bomb with a 5 month timer belongs in a parody film by the folks that brought us Scary Movie etc.

:rofl: :wub:

Proper transition seems to be under appreciated lately. Prometheus was similar in that IMO it lacked proper connective tissue between a lot of the scenes.

I still think you get rid of the whole prison crap since it just complicates things but it's obvious that Nolan wanted the climb from the prison to tie in with the original well in BB that child Bruce falls down. He wanted it so much he made all this convoluted crap happen to get it done.

What would it have been like in BB if Bruce is told to leave prison and climb the mountain only to cut to him entering the castle or whatever it was. It would be jarring. Instead we get a few VERY QUICK scenes that smooth the transition and give a sense of how difficult it was.

Saying the audience will figure it out is lazy and half assed. I think it requires more effort to edit properly and have things link up well.

This.