Jessie Posted May 1, 2013 Share Posted May 1, 2013 As for you Dash. We both know that there was a lot more to Jake's rise as leader of the tribe then just knowing about human weaponry. He manages to tame that Dragon thing and ride it. Something no-one in living memory had done. Jake Scully the White Man saviour for the perfect and harmonious natives who have not a care in the world other than those brought on by the white fella. It rubbed me the wrong way as well, and is borderline racist if you really sit down and think it through IMO. We also both know, that history is far from black and white but that is exactly what Avatar is. It is not subtle in its message at all. I feel like I've been hit over the head with the hammer of non-subtle white guiltiness many many times during the flick. And honestly, its not even that the message is bad. But to really get to grips with these themes there needs to be less black and white and their needs to be stronger characters that carry this message. The characters need to have some depth to pull this thing off and not to just feel lectured too. If we contrast this to Jurassic Park. The book had a lot more of the 'beware of technology' theme that was really stripped away to bare necessity in the film. Why? Because Spielberg knew that this movie wasn't trying to be a 'Schindler's List', it didn't need deep themes or to send a message. What it needed was dinosaurs fucking shit up and characters that were competent enough to care about enough that they lived. Cameron on the other hand seemed to feel that he was sending a message, that he wanted to make a strong statement - but the characters and the script were not nuanced enough to give it justice. And hence we end up with this very pretty, but ultimately hollow flick that falls under the weight of its own self importance.Are you seriously suggesting Avatar was racist . That's just ridiculous, the Avatars and Navi were blue for fuck sake yet you still throw the racist card out lol. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozymandias Posted May 1, 2013 Share Posted May 1, 2013 Are you seriously suggesting Avatar was racist . That's just ridiculous, the Avatars and Navi were blue for fuck sake yet you still throw the racist card out lol. Just stop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jessie Posted May 1, 2013 Share Posted May 1, 2013 Just stop.No I think you lot need to stop. Claiming Avatar to be racist only shows that you lot have run out of ideas and are desperate to find any pathetic reason to claim Avatar is bad. In other words, give it up 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozymandias Posted May 1, 2013 Share Posted May 1, 2013 (edited) No I think you lot need to stop. Claiming Avatar to be racist only shows that you lot have run out of ideas and are desperate to find any pathetic reason to claim Avatar is bad. In other words, give it up I'm not gonna argue whether or not Avatar is racist because its been done to death in this thread already by both sides constantly repeating themselves. I'm telling you that if you're gonna join the conversation here you can't come in and say something hilariously stupid like "its not racist or has nothing to do with race because the Navi have blue skin" when the Navi are clearly an allegory for a primitive indigenous population like the native Americans, african tribes(etc) being fucked over by those meany "sky people" who represent the advanced western white man. Thats like saying District 9 didn't have anything to do with apartheid because the Aliens were Aliens and not black people. Maybe Avatar was too complicated for you(holy shit!), because if you still stand by that statement, then you can't read a film for shit if your life depended on it. Edited May 1, 2013 by Shpongle 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jessie Posted May 1, 2013 Share Posted May 1, 2013 I'm not gonna argue whether or not Avatar is racist because its been done to death in this thread already by both sides constantly repeating themselves. I'm telling you that if you're gonna join the conversation here you can't come in and say something hilariously stupid like "its not racist or has nothing to do with race because the Navi have blue skin" when the Navi are clearly an allegory for a primitive indigenous population like the native Americans, african tribes(etc) being fucked over by those meany "sky people" who represent the advanced western white man. Maybe Avatar was too complicated for you(holy shit!), because if you still stand by that statement, then you can't read a film for shit if your life depended on it.That's not racist though is it. It may have similar themes to our past but that doesn't mean that Avatar is a racist movie which has been suggested. You lot are just trying desperate to put the movie down but are failing miserably. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozymandias Posted May 1, 2013 Share Posted May 1, 2013 That's not racist though is it. It may have similar themes to our past but that doesn't mean that Avatar is a racist movie which has been suggested. You lot are just trying desperate to put the movie down but are failing miserably. Lol. Again, I'm not arguing whether or not its racist. I'm pointing out how ridiculous your logic was for your argument. After all these pages debating whether or not Avatar is racist, you are the first person to bring up the fact that the Navi have blue skin as if that totally escaped everyone. there is a reason for that Reading comprehension issues bro. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jessie Posted May 1, 2013 Share Posted May 1, 2013 Lol. Again, I'm not arguing whether or not its racist. I'm pointing out how ridiculous your logic was for your argument. After all these pages debating whether or not Avatar is racist, you are the first person to bring up the fact that the Navi have blue skin as if that totally escaped everyone. there is a reason for that Reading comprehension issues bro. It's called having a sense of humour bro, but yeah, carry on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozymandias Posted May 1, 2013 Share Posted May 1, 2013 (edited) It's called having a sense of humour bro, but yeah, carry on. I noticed when you get cornered or say something dumb you sometimes backpeddle and say you were joking, except this time its not about gay people rofl. Fess up like a man! Edited May 1, 2013 by Shpongle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Futurist Posted May 1, 2013 Share Posted May 1, 2013 (edited) Abadah id de best mobie of 2009. Arnold Schwarzennegger. You re gonna argue with he tterminator,now, punks ? Edited May 1, 2013 by The Futurist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jessie Posted May 1, 2013 Share Posted May 1, 2013 I noticed when you get cornered or say something dumb you sometimes backpeddle and say you were joking, except this time its not about gay people rofl. Fess up like a man!You claim Avatar is a racist movie then tell me I'm posting dumb shit surely you can see the irony in that. Claiming Avatar to be racist is just attention seeking and your desperate attempt at putting the film down.Quite frankly I'm done talking about a film I don't really give a shit about. Sure I liked Avatar but I didn't like it as much as you clearly hate it, so ill leave you to it an maybe one day you'll get a life and move on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Futurist Posted May 1, 2013 Share Posted May 1, 2013 (edited) I like cheeseburgers. Edited May 1, 2013 by The Futurist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Futurist Posted May 1, 2013 Share Posted May 1, 2013 You claim Avatar is a racist movie then tell me I'm posting dumb shit surely you can see the irony in that. Claiming Avatar to be racist is just attention seeking and your desperate attempt at putting the film down.Quite frankly I'm done talking about a film I don't really give a shit about. Sure I liked Avatar but I didn't like it as much as you clearly hate it, so ill leave you to it an maybe one day you'll get a life and move on Hate gives meaning. True story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozymandias Posted May 1, 2013 Share Posted May 1, 2013 You claim Avatar is a racist movie then tell me I'm posting dumb shit surely you can see the irony in that. Claiming Avatar to be racist is just attention seeking and your desperate attempt at putting the film down. Quite frankly I'm done talking about a film I don't really give a shit about. Sure I liked Avatar but I didn't like it as much as you clearly hate it, so ill leave you to it an maybe one day you'll get a life and move on Bye! I like cheeseburgers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4815162342 Posted May 1, 2013 Share Posted May 1, 2013 (edited) Jake being white is utterly irrelevant. It is very arguable that the Navi could never have won on their own because they lacked a fundamental understanding of the weapons/technology/etc of the humans and therefore could never stand against them in a pitched battle. Jake brought them that knowledge and understanding which allowed them to spring that ambush in the final battle that neutralized a significant amount of their firepower advantage because of the sensor disruption, close-quarters fighting, etc. That said, Jake conveniently becoming Toruk Macto exatly when the Navi needed a leader most and being the one to convince Eywa to fight for the Navi is cliche, but cliche is not the same as racist, or stereotypical, or offensive. Again, one could argue that Jake, being a human, brought an outsider's perspective that convinced Eywa that the time to act was now. JP is still better than Avatar, but the main criticism against Avatar in this thread is exaggerated. The whole "white man saving natives" trope in modern cinema is misinterpreted. The main assistance the "white man" brings to the natives is the understanding of contemporary technology/tactics/etc that allows them greater odds of winning a fight. And generally that is an objective fact. Native Americans consistently lost pitched fights against U.S. soldiers, they only won when they had numerial superiority AND had the element of surprise. Generally the actual white capitalist/commercial culture is criticized in favor of the more earthbound and solemn nature of the native culture, which is objectively different from the 1870s US in Dances with Wolves and Last Samurai or the Future World Corporations in Avatar and so on. Edited May 1, 2013 by 4815162342 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil in the Blank Posted May 1, 2013 Share Posted May 1, 2013 Lol I love how you use the words fail and Avatar in the same sentence. Are you capable of understanding context? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil in the Blank Posted May 1, 2013 Share Posted May 1, 2013 Are you seriously suggesting Avatar was racist . That's just ridiculous, the Avatars and Navi were blue for fuck sake yet you still throw the racist card out lol. That comment is either incredibly stupid, or incredibly unfunny. My suggestion is both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jessie Posted May 1, 2013 Share Posted May 1, 2013 Do yourself a favour and loosen up Phil 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil in the Blank Posted May 1, 2013 Share Posted May 1, 2013 (edited) Jake being white is utterly irrelevant. It is very arguable that the Navi could never have won on their own because they lacked a fundamental understanding of the weapons/technology/etc of the humans and therefore could never stand against them in a pitched battle. Jake brought them that knowledge and understanding which allowed them to spring that ambush in the final battle that neutralized a significant amount of their firepower advantage because of the sensor disruption, close-quarters fighting, etc. That said, Jake conveniently becoming Toruk Macto exatly when the Navi needed a leader most and being the one to convince Eywa to fight for the Navi is cliche, but cliche is not the same as racist, or stereotypical, or offensive. Again, one could argue that Jake, being a human, brought an outsider's perspective that convinced Eywa that the time to act was now. JP is still better than Avatar, but the main criticism against Avatar in this thread is exaggerated. The whole "white man saving natives" trope in modern cinema is misinterpreted. The main assistance the "white man" brings to the natives is the understanding of contemporary technology/tactics/etc that allows them greater odds of winning a fight. And generally that is an objective fact. Native Americans consistently lost pitched fights against U.S. soldiers, they only won when they had numerial superiority AND had the element of surprise. Generally the actual white capitalist/commercial culture is criticized in favor of the more earthbound and solemn nature of the native culture, which is objectively different from the 1870s US in Dances with Wolves and Last Samurai or the Future World Corporations in Avatar and so on. Fun Fact : Guess who brought Racism up in this thread? The answer is Dash Render the great Avatarian defender when he called District 9 racist. From there it kind of snowballed from how could you consider that racist but not Avatar to where we ended up. I don't actually consider to be an out-and-out racist film. More clumsy and cliched in its dealing with race. It is NOT my biggest criticism, which is that the story is cliched and done to death and the characters have no depth to them. Edited May 1, 2013 by Phil in the Darkness 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil in the Blank Posted May 1, 2013 Share Posted May 1, 2013 Do yourself a favour and loosen up Phil Do yourself a favour and think before you type! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jessie Posted May 1, 2013 Share Posted May 1, 2013 Do yourself a favour and think before you type! Coming from the poster calling Avatar racist?? Seriously mate, you need to think less before you type because you come up with some complete bullshit when you do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
