Jurassic Park or Avatar?

[fishstick]

Avatar has so many scenes that make me giddy and swoon and bite my pilow or I`ll melt. Such as when Jake and Neytiri meet and they run and there`s OMG bioluminescenes wherever they step and than he`s enveloped in those sacred tree seeds, OMG! I mena, is there anything more romantic? Apparently, there is and it`s called Jake`s first flight. OMG, they fly together and that`s just so swoooooon. And then he becomes Toruk Makto and takes her with her and she`s all "Yeah! Yeah!" pumped and shit as if she`s Toruk Makto. OMG this movie`s romance incarnated.  

[vc2002]

Fishnets just had an orgasm.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And it's not caused by shitto!

Edited April 27, 2013 by vc2002

[Herr Mike]

Spielberg killed it with JP but the script was lazy as hell. As far as effects go, it will live on as a true icon because they freaking brought dinosaurs to life. You couldn't see that shit in your national geographics.

 

Avatar on the other hand, meh. It succeeded in bring an alien world to life, sure, too bad the world looked exactly like earth.

 

Titanic left more of a legacy in effects than Avatar.

[fishstick]

Titanic had no effects,man. They secretly filmed the real sinking.

Edited April 28, 2013 by fishnets

[The Futurist]

Avatar hataz : still clueless.

 

Keep trying, you are unto something I am sure.

The funniest thing about them is how they are condescending towards Avatar, like the movie doesn't deserve their far too superior intellect.

After trashing Avatar, they go jerk off to District 9, the Avatar Doppelganger

 

The irony ...

 

Edited April 28, 2013 by The Futurist

[Phil in the Blank]

Avatar hataz : still clueless.

 

Keep trying, you are unto something I am sure.

The funniest thing about them is how they are condescending towards Avatar, like the movie doesn't deserve their far too superior intellect.

After trashing Avatar, they go jerk off to District 9, the Avatar Doppelganger

 

The irony ...

 

 

I don't hate Avatar, its just mediocre in my eyes. And while I could write an essay on why District 9 succeeds where Avatar fails. I'll settle for a short paragraph and 2 pictures (aka 2 thousands words write there)

 

 

vs

 

 

Which script do you think has to work harder to get us to emphasise with the aliens? The script where the aliens are all beautiful and perfect looking or the script where the aliens look hideous and disgusting to our eyes? District 9 succeeds compared to Avatar, imo, because it's script is much much richer.

Edited April 29, 2013 by Phil in the Darkness

[Phil in the Blank]

As for you Dash.

 

We both know that there was a lot more to Jake's rise as leader of the tribe then just knowing about human weaponry. He manages to tame that Dragon thing and ride it. Something no-one in living memory had done. Jake Scully the White Man saviour for the perfect and harmonious natives who have not a care in the world other than those brought on by the white fella.  It rubbed me the wrong way as well, and is borderline racist if you really sit down and think it through IMO.

 

We also both know, that history is far from black and white but that is exactly what Avatar is. It is not subtle in its message at all. I feel like I've been hit over the head with the hammer of non-subtle white guiltiness many many times during the flick. And honestly, its not even that the message is bad. But to really get to grips with these themes there needs to be less black and white and their needs to be stronger characters that carry this message. The characters need to have some depth to pull this thing off and not to just feel lectured too.

 

If we contrast this to Jurassic Park. The book had a lot more of the 'beware of technology' theme that was really stripped away to bare necessity in the film. Why? Because Spielberg knew that this movie wasn't trying to be a 'Schindler's List', it didn't need deep themes or to send a message. What it needed was dinosaurs fucking shit up and characters that were competent enough to care about enough that they lived. Cameron on the other hand seemed to feel that he was sending a message, that he wanted to make a strong statement - but the characters and the script were not nuanced enough to give it justice. And hence we end up with this very pretty, but ultimately hollow flick that falls under the weight of its own self importance. 

[fishstick]

I don't hate Avatar, its just mediocre in my eyes. And while I could write an essay on why District 9 succeeds where Avatar fails. I'll settle for a short paragraph and 2 pictures (aka 2 thousands words write there)

 

 

vs

 

 

Which script do you think has to work harder to get us to emphasise with the aliens? The script where the aliens are all beautiful and perfect looking or the script where the aliens look hideous and disgusting to our eyes? District 9 succeeds compared to Avatar, imo, because it's script is much much richer.

 

Both succeeded because people empathized with aliens. The one that had broader appeal won the boxoffice because it worked cross-generational. Both have very equal criticla reception.

 

D9 fans whining about Avatar making more money is really the most pointless thing ever. D9 isn`t a four quadrant, wa snever meant to be and that`s that. Avatar was. 2009 was greta year for sci fi with these 2 and ST.

Edited April 29, 2013 by fishnets

[SchumacherFTW]

Both succeeded because people empathized with aliens. The one that had broader appeal won the boxoffice because it worked cross-generational. Both have very equal criticla reception.D9 fans whining about Avatar making more money is really the most pointless thing ever. D9 isn`t a four quadrant, wa snever meant to be and that`s that. Avatar was. 2009 was greta year for sci fi with these 2 and ST.

Don't forget Moon. The only real mis step fot 09 was Revenge of the Fallen IMO.

[fishstick]

RotF isn`t sci fi.

[The Futurist]

I don't hate Avatar, its just mediocre in my eyes. And while I could write an essay on why District 9 succeeds where Avatar fails. I'll settle for a short paragraph and 2 pictures (aka 2 thousands words write there)

 

 

vs

 

 

Which script do you think has to work harder to get us to emphasise with the aliens? The script where the aliens are all beautiful and perfect looking or the script where the aliens look hideous and disgusting to our eyes? District 9 succeeds compared to Avatar, imo, because it's script is much much richer.

 

lolz for the ages.

 

As usual.

[dashrendar44]

As for you Dash.

 

We both know that there was a lot more to Jake's rise as leader of the tribe then just knowing about human weaponry. He manages to tame that Dragon thing and ride it. Something no-one in living memory had done.

 

Wrong. There were many Toruk Maktos before him (Edit: 5 before). Neytiri told Sully in a scene that her grand-grand-father or the likes was one of them and the remaining skull is exposed in home tree to remind them that fact. So if she can tell him that fact, that means that at least someone before in living memory has tamed it. So pay more attention because that point doesn't stand.

 

 

If we contrast this to Jurassic Park. The book had a lot more of the 'beware of technology' theme that was really stripped away to bare necessity in the film. Why? Because Spielberg knew that this movie wasn't trying to be a 'Schindler's List', it didn't need deep themes or to send a message. What it needed was dinosaurs fucking shit up and characters that were competent enough to care about enough that they lived. Cameron on the other hand seemed to feel that he was sending a message, that he wanted to make a strong statement - but the characters and the script were not nuanced enough to give it justice. And hence we end up with this very pretty, but ultimately hollow flick that falls under the weight of its own self importance. 

 

 

And lol at your "Avatar is not subtle, Jurassic Park is not subtle too but the book was but Spielberg felt subtlety wouldn't fit the movie. So even if both are not subtle, I decided that Jurassic Park is better nonetheless even if it got no message."

 

So you prefer a movie that didn't even try that a movie that tries to be more than just brainless popcorn entertainment. To each their own.

 

You really got a race problem seeing how you're obsessed with "white guilt" and the fact that it rubs you wrong. "white guilt" is a concept invented by conservative minded people that feels threatened every time the subject of past history related to racism and colonialism is brought up to debate. It's a way to brush the topic off putting the blame on the ones that try to shed light on it and dismiss any discussion related to it, always putting their whiteness in the center like the whole world revolves around them. No one says you must feel guilt but you act like Avatar is pointing a finger at your "white identity" especially, because you sound a little bit like an angry white male having a rash just because Avatar is a metaphor of Settlers vs Indians (or any tale about colonialism where a civilization tries to dominate and destroy one another judged as inferior).

Edited April 29, 2013 by dashrendar44

[The Futurist]

Avatar tells the old story of how humans always behaved between each other :prey on the weak, conquer & pillage.

 

When the first tribe made a weapon out of a bone, it began and it never ended.

 

Still continuing to this day as we speak, the mighty pillages what he needs.

 

Avatar has NO political agenda. It just depicts how we are. Our true nature.

 

Nothing more, nothing less.

Edited May 1, 2013 by The Futurist

[mattmav45]

The amount of over-analyzing and nitpicking displayed in this thread on these two fantasy, effects-driven blockbusters is hilarious.

 

In addition, trying to argue the plausibility of events in films like these is comparable to complaining about nudity in a strip club.  Simply ridiculous.

Edited April 29, 2013 by mattmav45

[RobinHood26]

We should have a bunch of endless VS threads. 

[Phil in the Blank]

lolz for the ages.

 

As usual.

 

So you have no rebuttal?

 

Good to know

[Phil in the Blank]

Both succeeded because people empathized with aliens. The one that had broader appeal won the boxoffice because it worked cross-generational. Both have very equal criticla reception.

 

D9 fans whining about Avatar making more money is really the most pointless thing ever. D9 isn`t a four quadrant, wa snever meant to be and that`s that. Avatar was. 2009 was greta year for sci fi with these 2 and ST.

 

I'm not arguing that D9 should had more money at the BO. Avatar is clearly the more broader appeal film and was always going to smash it. But broader appeal doesn't mean its the better film, no more than the success of McDonalds indicates its the best food one can buy.

 

Hell I saw Avatar a couple of times in cinemas cause it was an amazing cinematic event (and I almost never watch a movie twice+ in the cinema), but I will never think its a quality film.

[Phil in the Blank]

In living memory means that no-one who is currently alive can remember that event taking place - so World War 1 would just barely be in living memory for example. Unless I am mistaken, no body currently alive can remember the great great grandfather physically on the beast hence it is no longer in living memory. Regardless, it is a very very rare event that for whatever reason only the very very new coming to the tribe has managed to do in generations

 

And no, I don't necessarily prefer a brainless popcorn flick to a movie that tries to go deeper however.....Jurassic Park is a particularly well executed brainless blockbuster and Avatar is a pretty mediocre attempt at a message movie. For Avatar to be a good message movie it needed more shades of grey in its moral choices and better characters to hold the message together. That Avatar fails in that while Jurassic Park succeeds at what it is trying to do, makes it the better film.

 

For example, a movie where this mission was a mission of mercy for the hundreds of millions of humans who would starve and freeze to death unless a new source of energy could be found would add extra moral dimensions and give Jake has a real choice between humanity, including people he knows personally whom he left behind, and this mostly peaceful tribe that just happens to live where they need to go for this energy. It would had made the movie much more interesting to me if they had gone this route rather than the lol corporate greed and coffee drinking while shit blows up marine guy!

 

And at the end of the day Dash, you can frame this anyway you like. We both know that hollywood has a history of making films where the white person breaks free of his own 'side' and becomes a hero for the poor natives who are helpless without his help. I interpret that as White Mans Guilt Fantasy. Guilt of the past, guilt of destroying something 'innocent and pure', and then the fantasy of putting themselves in the middle of that scenario and changing things for the better. It is a very simplistic view of the past, and a somewhat mastabatory view of fixing it. These issues are more important that that, and deserve better treatment then that IMO.

[Gazz]

Jurassic Park is an easy win for me. They're both enjoyable roller coaster rides but JP is just a tighter film with far more iconic moments that have stuck through over decades. Avatar has a few but even now, just a few years later, they're somewhat faded (the felling of the home-tree is still a solid 'HOLY-SHIT!' moment). Also whereas I warmed to Grant I always felt a distance between myself and Jake Sully. I really felt very little for him. 

 

I'm also quite fond of The Lost World but recognise it's a bit of a mess.  However, JP3 is just terrible all the way through in my opinion.

[Phil in the Blank]

The Lost World has some great individual scenes, but the fact that the 'hippies', who you are meant to cheer for are the ones who pretty much cause all the death on the island makes it hard to enjoy.

Edited May 1, 2013 by Phil in the Darkness