Jurassic Park or Avatar?

[Moviedweeb]

If I go watch Iron Man 3 in 3D I am not getting a significantly different experience then watching it in 2D. Its fundamentally the same movie. Now imagine if they made an Iron Man 3 without CGI and a version of Iron Man 3 with CGI. Those would be two fundamentally different movies because some things simply could not be achieved without CGI. That is why I say that JP was the more influential. Before that movie, CG was more or less a gimmick, after JP your imagination was more or less the limit of what could be put up on the screen.

 

I think 3D was far from Avatar's biggest achievement. Just the single shot when Neytiri holds Jake in his human form was beyond groundbreaking and opens up a huge door for filmmakers 

[redfirebird2008]

I'd give a slight edge to JP in terms of both film/story quality and impact on special effects in the industry.

[Moviedweeb]

In terms of effects, which I believe is the real question here, then it has to be Avatar. Anybody saying anything different would be stupid. It has a 16 year advantage sure, but they are much better than Jurassic Park's.If you're just asking which of these visual effects blockbusters is better, then Jurassic Park wins.

 

 

You lost me at "Anybody saying anything different would be stupid." Good stuff otherwise.  

 

[The Futurist]

T2 was the game changer.

 

Not Jurassic Park.

 

Spielberg called Murren at ILM after T2's Oscar.

 

Jurassic PArk was originally set to be done in stop motion by Phil Tippett.

 

Cameron was always the engineer of Hollywood, Spielberg just recognizes talent.

[Jessie]

Although I prefer Avatar to JP, I do prefer Spielberg films (well I did). I think Shindlers List, Saving Private Ryan and Minority report are better than any of Cameron's films and I loved Aliens and both Terminators. There's 5 minute shot during the end battle of Saving Private Ryan that stays on one camera and follows the ammo carrier as he sneaks past real life tanks, well timed and coordinated explosions and into the next shoot out without taking a break. I dig this sort of shit and it must take a genius to organise a sequence like that without fucking it up. This is something very few directors can do, Spielberg is one if them, but when it comes to big over the top special effects extravaganza then I have to give it to Cameron, and Bay for that matter.

[dashrendar44]

T2 was the game changer.

 

Not Jurassic Park.

 

Spielberg called Murren at ILM after T2's Oscar.

 

Jurassic PArk was originally set to be done in stop motion by Phil Tippett.

 

Cameron was always the engineer of Hollywood, Spielberg just recognizes talent.

 

Spielberg has the eye and the knack to know how to use technological achievements to his advantage and make them his own. That's why VFX tend to hold up much better in his movies whereas the very first movies that took the heat and opened the door tend to age a bit. Spielberg observes with scrutiny all the advancements that is going around in VFX field waiting around the corner and then, when he thinks those new processes have matured at a sufficient level to be seamless and convincing, he picks them up to integrate in his movies as a challenge to reach a perfect level, looking for the best effects available in town to convey properly the scale of his vision.

 

He did the same with Tintin waiting to be convinced by Weta perfcap achievements to jump into it.

Edited April 22, 2013 by dashrendar44

[Ozymandias]

I think 3D was far from Avatar's biggest achievement. Just the single shot when Neytiri holds Jake in his human form was beyond groundbreaking and opens up a huge door for filmmakers 

 

Real characters physically interacting with completely CGI characters has already been done in movies like Lord of the Rings and King Kong.  Avatar just simply did it better.  James Cameron even said Gollum in Lord of the Rings is what made him think Avatar was possible, with King Kong making him green light Avatar.  Mocap pretty much owes its existence to Lord of the Rings/Gollum.

Edited April 22, 2013 by Shpongle

[dashrendar44]

PerfCap, not MoCap. MoCap did exist way before LOTR. Titanic used MoCap. Gollum is the combination of existing MoCap with new facial performance capture with cameras and tracking points only dedicated to facial expressions to translate on a 3D model.

Edited April 22, 2013 by dashrendar44

[Moviedweeb]

Absolutely, but the level of interaction surpassed everything before IMO. I don't think that Avatar invented anything per say, it just took so many things to an entirely new level and all in a single film which is unique.

 

Avatar is unparalleled in terms of the amount of breakthroughs in a single film.

Edited April 25, 2013 by Clavius

[Jessie]

Real characters physically interacting with completely CGI characters has already been done in movies like Lord of the Rings and King Kong.  Avatar just did it better.  James Cameron even said Gollum in Lord of the Rings is what made him think Avatar was possible, with King Kong making him green light Avatar.  Mocap pretty much owes its existence to Lord of the Rings/Gollum.

Yeah I agree to be fair, people seem to overlook LOTR but that movie has been more influential than Avatar and JP. LOTR even started the sword and sandal craze and were bringing films like Narnia to life. Mo-Cap had never really been done before and gollum opened up a lot of opportunities.

[dashrendar44]

Absolutely, but the level of interaction surpassed everything before IMO. I don't think that Avatar invented anything per say, it just took so many things to an entirely new level and all in a single film which is unique. Avatar is unparalleled in terms of the amount of breakthroughs in a single film.

 

The way the PerfCap action was shooted is mind-boggling. Only directors with visual flair can really grasp how much it is groundbreaking and what they can do with that technology, how much it can be a freeing tool in terms of mise-en-scene at a great scale.

Edited April 22, 2013 by dashrendar44

[RobinHood26]

Spielberg did produce the first film to ever feature a CGI character though. Young Sherlock Holmes.

[The Futurist]

Absolutely, but the level of interaction surpassed everything before IMO. I don't think that Avatar invented anything per say, it just took so many things to an entirely new level and all in a single film which is unique. Avatar is unparalleled in terms of the amount of breakthroughs in a single film.

 

Avatar conquered the dead eye effect.

 

THAT was a first for perf cap characters.

 

Insanely difficult to pull off.

 

Zemeckis failed 3 times and ILM still hasn't done it.

[vc2002]

 

 

 

Yeah I agree to be fair, people seem to overlook LOTR but that movie has been more influential than Avatar and JP. LOTR even started the sword and sandal craze and were bringing films like Narnia to life. Mo-Cap had never really been done before and gollum opened up a lot of opportunities.

 

Mo-cap was used on Titanic in 1997, and as you can see it already go the basic form that is being used nowdays. To say mocap  owes its existence to LOTR is simply sharrow. Mo-cap didn't even owe its existence to Titanic which was one of the first films to ever use it. In video games mo-cap actually was used a lot eariler.

 

 

 

 

The biggest reason Mo-cap became a star on LOTR was because the character that it was used to create was perfect. Mo-cap was also used on creating Jar Jar before, but Jar Jar was a meh character, so no one gave the credit to mo-cap on TPM. Same thing could be said on Final Fantasy 2001.

 

A lot of times, a technology was not defined by itself, but by its outcome, by what it was being used to create.

Edited April 24, 2013 by vc2002

[vc2002]

Avatar conquered the dead eye effect.

 

THAT was a first for perf cap characters.

 

Insanely difficult to pull off.

 

Zemeckis failed 3 times and ILM still hasn't done it.

 

The funny thing is, the most innovative technology that was created on Avatar wasn't even the face-rig thing. It's called "virtual camera system". It's a very creative and useful tool, and gives the film-maker a much more workable way to direct heavy-cg films. And because Cameron pretty much shared everything, all big SFX houses took that idea and now they all developed the system of their own versions. ILM used it on TF2 and Ironman2.

 

But do we hear about it as much as we heard about the mo-cap thing? No. Mo-cap is a shining tool and its creation is very obvious, very straight. This tool got a lof of promotive value to market the film and this is why even general audience know what mo-cap is these days. Virtual Camera system is a bit complicated, and its outcome often is hard to be seen directly. This technology obviously doesnt have much promotive value, and this is why mo-cap (or facial-cap) stole all the show during the promotion of Avatar.

 

Much like people always loving to quote mo-cap as the breakthrough tech in LOTR, yet another real breakthrough one that few people know is the developing of MASSIVE that was used to create countless objects that act as individuals. Well, if you're the guy in charge of marketing, do you want the director to talk about mo-cap on TV which was used to create a kickass character, or MASSIVE which made digital doubles you probably wont even pay attention to?

Edited April 24, 2013 by vc2002

[fishstick]

I don`t care that JP`s a classic, Avatar all the way for me. JP just isn`t my type of movie, and kids were so freakin annoying.

 

OTOH, Avatar romance was divine.

[vc2002]

I don`t care that JP`s a classic, Avatar all the way for me. JP just isn`t my type of movie, and kids were so freakin annoying.

 

OTOH, Avatar romance was divine.

 

One thing I noticed that most than often that people call kids being kids in films annoying, like those in JP, or ET. Yes they screamed a lot they were stupid but that's what most kids are in real life. I don't see people call the one in The 6th Sense annoying, yet he's not what a real boy in life is LOL

Edited April 24, 2013 by vc2002

[Darth Homer]

Jurassic Park is a groundbreaking classic. Avatar is just a nice film.

[dashrendar44]

"Jaws is a classic, Jurassic Park is a nice film". That's what people your age were saying about Jurassic Park back then when it was released...

 

Nostalgia clouds judgement...If you were 11 years old watching Avatar, you would all be thinking it's an instant classic like you believe Jurassic Park is. Most of us here have discovered Jurassic Park being younglings and have fond memories accordingly but everybody don't think the same especially the generation before ours that went all like "Boy, your Jurassic Park is shit with those CGI trickery, Jaws and Star Wars were classics, all practical effects!Let me tell you about Jason and the argonauts, Ray Harryhausen that was the shit!". (And before that "Ben-Hur and the 10 commandments, that's what I called epic entertainment, not your kiddie fare Star Wars!")

 

The youngster in you is speaking when you say Jurassic Park is a classic even if in Spielberg's filmography it's not really a standout jewel apart from the groundbreaking VFX but you were so in love and amazed by the visuals that you forget all its flaws and shortcomings (B-movie survival plot with characters playing hide and seek for 2 hours). That youngster today feels exactly the same about Avatar as a piece of escapism and adventure. You don't see things the same way, kind of "been there, done that", something you think is washed up and trite is something new and exciting for the next generation. And every generation did the same thing before you arguing "My generation's movie is better that your new shiny flick with fancy effects" even if every generation needs their own groundbreaking piece of entertainment. People groaned that SW was a rehash of Flash Gordon FFS.

 

I guess it's the moment you really know you're an adult, shitting on the next flavor of young generation groundbreaking blockbuster. Maybe you're too old for this for not accepting it's the way the world goes round. Relativity.

Edited April 25, 2013 by dashrendar44

[Omario]

Jurassic park. Period