Rovex Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 (edited) Yeha, I know but since this trek is tyring to be untrek a spossible they could`ve ditched that effect altogether. since it sucked in canon too. Totally disagree with you. Its a different style of trek, but its still trek. Its a movie based on the weekly-reset style TV format. The canon is important, so they need plot devices to get around writing themselves into a dead end. Even the movie writers have to respect that and viewers expect them to follow canon as much as possible. Its not your place to think the canon sucks, it is what it is and that's that. If you think thats bad then i pray they never make a Dr Who movie, the recent series have been full of positively random and silly plot devices. Edited May 10, 2013 by Rovex 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rovex Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 Maybe I'm just being overly cynical. I don't know. But I strongly disliked the WOK stuff, and the two people I saw the film with were also big fans of WOK and felt exactly the same way. Like I wrote before, I suspect how well you like that part of the film depends on your view of WOK. I don't mind referencing the other ST timeline, but I felt this was so close to the other timeline that it was almost a parody. And for the record, I adore BSG. It's my favourite tv show of all time. I suppose it depends on whether you think the movie was well done or not. I do, therefore I didn't mind the parallel. I was worried that it wouldnt be. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeCee Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 I watched Wrath of Khan again last night. I didn't see this as parody or a disrespect to the best Star Trek film. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookie Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 (edited) If you want it summed up in six words: "not as good as the first", and the main reason is that it's a bit too messy. Continuity is all over the place. In the scene were Kirk is degraded to first officer (a position he holds for like fifteen minutes of screentime) I kept thinking to myself "ffs Kirk and his crew saved Earth from total destruction last time, he should be treated like a hero" yet he still receives the same scorn and bureaucratic bullshit as if everyone forgot that even happened, in fact I don't think that event was ever mentioned. The destruction of Spock's home planet is still brought up and analyzed, so why is it that the first film's very climax seem to have no effect on the sequel? There's several more parts where continuity is out of whack, but I won't mention them all. Many parts feel rushed, especially the ending. It's the same thing as in Iron Man 3, it's like they're afraid of having an epilogue that's longer than three minutes so let's wrap things up as quickly as possible and just pray people don't get confused by things randomly happening without explanation. Did Khan get a fair trial before they froze him again? Did Scotty get his job back? Why are they randomly going on a five-year exploration mission? Things like this just open up so many questions and leave them unanswered. Uhura and Spock's relationship problems is another example, but in this case it ended up being forgotten for the rest of the film. Killing off Kirk only to bring him back to life by using Khan's blood felt like a major cop-out, but I guess they didn't want to do a third film that copied from The Search For Spock, but in reverse (his death is already a role reversal of Spock's death in Wrath of Kahn). There's even some really pointless parts in the film that you could have easily cut. Like why did we spend so much time building up this guy with a sick daughter? All it really added in the end was that he blew up the archives on Khan's orders. I know that the idea is that Khan doesn't have any real henchmen backing him and instead makes use of the weak to do his willing, but you could have easily explained that away with just a bit of dialogue, not devote several scenes to it. Then there's the scene were Alice Eve undresses for no reason. Why? She actually doesn't change her outfit, so it's just a forced gag that had no logical setup to begin with. Khan himself isn't that particularly well-developed and his motivations are a bit muddled, but Cumberbatch makes the best of it and steals every scene he's in. The villain in the first film was pretty weak, so while Khan here isn't perfect, he's much better than Eric Bana with a tattoo. The returning actors are pretty darn good too and both Chris Pine and Zachary Quinto pull off their emotional moments excellently. Alice Eve is probably the only one that I would say wasn't top-notch in this. The visuals are excellent and the 3D isn't half bad either, but the opening I think sets a visual standard that I don't think the rest of the film manages to match. There's some pretty space images here and there and I can't think of a single moment that looked fake, but the opening had such vibrant colors and make such good use of 3D that the rest of the film looks kinda stale in comparison, but it's not that big of an issue. One annoying thing is that J.J Abrams doesn't seem to have learned his lesson about the lens flares, and now they're even more distracting in 3D. The last third of the film is simply straight up action, and the action sequences in general are exhilarating, Like the first film, Abrams' energetic camerawork makes every piece seem fresh and exciting. That's all I can say about that. So overall I can say that I liked it, but I admit I left the theater feeling disappointed. I will watch it again when it comes out on Blu-Ray to see if I can like it more a second time around, but for now I can't say I'm overly satisfied. Edited May 10, 2013 by C00k13 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoolioD1 Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 The plot is basically Wrath of Khan and Space Seed and some Undiscovered Country thrown in there with that Admiral's conspiracy to start a Klingon war. Anyway, I thought I would hate that they were essentially leaning on the original stuff with this but I actually loved their spin on it, Kirk's death was surprisingly emotional despite being a pretty exact replication of Spock's in WOK (Though like I said in the other thread, Quinto's "KHAAAAAAAAAAAN!" kinda killed it. A reference that wasn't necessary). Also gotta say that I loved Cumberbatch as the villain. Film's a ton of fun, and it'll be hard for the other summer blockbusters this year to top this one. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeCee Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 I have to agree. The "KHAAAAAAAAAAAN!" was just a teeny bit forced. Although, the out takes should be a laugh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jb007 Posted May 11, 2013 Share Posted May 11, 2013 Good movie with minor pacing issues. Not as good as the first one. A-/B+ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solaris Posted May 11, 2013 Share Posted May 11, 2013 Disappointed a la Prometheus (thanks again Lindelof). Loved the opening - everything I'd wanted to see since leaving ST09 4 years ago. Loved the Klingons - they felt dangerous for the first time in years. Cumberbatch great but all of TWOK references and quotes were lazy and stupid. The conspiracy plot was silly and completely undercooked. It's too well made to be bad (saw it in IMAX at the BFI and it was sexy as hell), and lots of individual sequences were fun/entertaining. As a whole though, it's WAAAAY less satisfying than ST09. A huuuuuge missed opportunity in my book. B 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishstick Posted May 11, 2013 Share Posted May 11, 2013 Totally disagree with you. Its a different style of trek, but its still trek. Its a movie based on the weekly-reset style TV format. The canon is important, so they need plot devices to get around writing themselves into a dead end. Even the movie writers have to respect that and viewers expect them to follow canon as much as possible. Its not your place to think the canon sucks, it is what it is and that's that. If you think thats bad then i pray they never make a Dr Who movie, the recent series have been full of positively random and silly plot devices. I don`t care about Dr Who. Tried to watch but coudln`t finish a single episode and that was one that`s considered a better episode. When Who`s girlfriend goes back in time to save her dad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yads Posted May 11, 2013 Share Posted May 11, 2013 One thing I was too drunk to get into last night (hence the rambling "review") was Abrams' direction, which was rock solid. The problems with STiD were all script-based IMO, so given those limitations I think JJ did about as well as anyone could have. With Lucas' outline and Arndt's script I really believe he can deliver a special SW movie, certainly the best since 1980. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeCee Posted May 11, 2013 Share Posted May 11, 2013 After a second viewing. Liked it even more. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pieman Posted May 11, 2013 Share Posted May 11, 2013 A- is too high for a generic sci fi unless the movie wasn`t as generic as you claim. I agree, "good but nothing special" is B or even C+ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pieman Posted May 11, 2013 Share Posted May 11, 2013 (edited) Was anyone else bothered by the number of unfunny jokes in this movie? MANY fell completely flat in the 70% full session I saw. The first 40 minutes were a complete drag, I couldn't believe it. It picks up a bit when they start the mission but when Khan reveals himself it just becomes a convoluted mess. Nothing seemed at stake (the 72 missiles?) especially when Khan started helping Kirk and predictably stabbed him in the back. And way too much comic banter between the characters. Everyone is constantly cracking wise and at each other like a lame TV crime show. Great credits though. Oh and didn't anyone think it was totally ridiculous and hilarious (but not in an intentional way) when Kirk just kicked the piss out of the warp core to fix it. Edited May 11, 2013 by pieman 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theultimatebiu Posted May 11, 2013 Share Posted May 11, 2013 A review from a non trekkie who positively hates most sci-fi movies and TV shows. It was alot of fun but it does drop in quality the minute they reach klingon. When the villain announces he is Khan it meant fuck-all to me and nearly everyone in the cinema. I don't like the fact that the rest of the cast got pushed to the background though, 7.9/10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jessie Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 Was anyone else bothered by the number of unfunny jokes in this movie? MANY fell completely flat in the 70% full session I saw. The first 40 minutes were a complete drag, I couldn't believe it. It picks up a bit when they start the mission but when Khan reveals himself it just becomes a convoluted mess. Nothing seemed at stake (the 72 missiles?) especially when Khan started helping Kirk and predictably stabbed him in the back. And way too much comic banter between the characters. Everyone is constantly cracking wise and at each other like a lame TV crime show. Great credits though. Oh and didn't anyone think it was totally ridiculous and hilarious (but not in an intentional way) when Kirk just kicked the piss out of the warp core to fix it.No I think you're on your own there mate.People seem to nitpick the smallest things in this but completely ignore all the dumb shit from ST09. For very dumb thing mentioned from STID, ill find one from ST09. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil in the Blank Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 Let me keep this simple. If you enjoyed ST09 you will enjoy this film. You may enjoy it a little more, or you may enjoy it a little less but either way you are not going to come out of this movie feeling like you thew $10 down the drain. If you did not enjoy ST09 stay far far away. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil in the Blank Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 c00k13, many of your complaints are valid but I think you missed a couple of things that explain some of them away. The scenes with the daughter at the beginning set up the deus ex machina khan's blood curing all after all that is what he gave him to put into her i.v. drip. Why are they going on a 5 year mission? Well the ultimate answer to that question is because thats what was happening on the original tv show. The film answer was that this was set up in the early scenes with Kirk hopeful of being selected for this mission before finding out he was being demoted to first officer. We have seen the power of Captains to be able to assign whom they want to their ship. It is an easy assumption to make that Kirk asked for Scotty to be reinstated. I don't think a line of dialogue asking him was really necessary. Kirks death was a nice parallel with the events in Star Trek 2 the wrath of kahn and having the magic cure was alluded to earlier on in the film...It's certainly not the worst use of science i have seen Trek done over the years 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookie Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 (edited) If the ending wasn't so massively rushed then I wouldn't have ended up confused (but thanks for clearing it up), and Kirk's resurrection is still a major copout from a dramatic standpoint, even though I saw it coming because the film still had twenty minutes left to go. Edited May 14, 2013 by C00k13 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeCee Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 Apart from the fact there was zero chance of Kirk being killed off they'd already set up his resurrection with the kid at the beginning and Bones' experiments with the Tribble. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusader Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 This was pretty good but not as good as the first one 2 things that are top notch here - Cumberbatch and Abrams Cumberbatch has a very underwritten and underdeveloped role yet he totally owned the screen and made the most of it ... get behind the hype and watch Sherlock you'll be amazed Abrams because once again he was working off of a pretty lame/bad script yet gave another solid blockbuster A generous Cumberbatch induced 8/10 miles better than IM3 that's for sure 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...