Avatar: The Way of Water | 16 DEC 2022 | Don't worry guys, critics like it

[dashrendar44]

Yes, the story connected with the audience, but it's still foolish to think it would have done as well as it did with the story alone, the groundbreaking effects (which were a MAJOR part in the immersive world, and what carried the movie) are the essential reason behind the success. Yes, it takes a good story to connect with the audience, but it was the immersive beautiful world (carried by again the effects and 3D) that carried it. People saw it countless times because it was a the definition of an IMAX/Theater movie, and it was also a good one (and the first to do what it did on it's scale), it's the same reason Star Wars broke out. Yes, the story is important, but for that groundbreaking success it really required something groundbreaking and never seen before for the audiences to connect with and it all ties back to the immersive effects and 3D. It didn't break out because people were all like, "Yeah 3D!!" That's true, but the 3D and VFX is what made its quality and what made it such an event film that you had to see in theaters before it was gone.Avatar was sold on the premise that it was an absolute must to see in cinema for its groundbreaking visuals and immersive world and a good story to go with it, but the story is NOT why I broke out so big. 

 

You say you're agreeing and paraphrasing what I said with the fact that the story connected with people then you make a 180 turn to say, the story is not what connected with the audience to make it big...

 

Pandora is the core story of Avatar, connecting with a brand new world of escapism like experiencing what it's like to start anew just like people experienced the thrill of escapism cinema like they thought they never felt till SW. That's the story of Avatar and you can't cut it and disconnect it from the rest saying "only VFX", "only 3D", "only story", it's a whole package that sold the deal, the story dictated the aesthetics, you can't separate that dynamic going through all the movie. The groundbreaking effects served the story, not the other way around. Most people forgot they were watching animated pixels but were just cheering for the characters once the final battle happened.

 

The question I agree with is: Can Cameron reproduce that intricate dynamic without losing his audience's captivation that draw them massively into the first movie?

 

Cameron's bet was to ensure people could immerse themselves into the theater experience and feel like a crippled escaping into this alien world through the eyes of a "born again" native alien thanks to 3D to "open our eyes and see like the first time" giving a sense of starting all anew (hence all the "wow, I never experienced that kind of immersion in movie theater before" across the world).

 

Guess what? That's exactly the story of Avatar and Cameron totally drew obvious parrallels between Sully's story and the audience's sensations of discovering Pandora universe in 3D. The audience is Jake Sully tied in his chair for 2h30 and Pandora is movie magic thrill we immersed into.(Avatar program = 3D system)

Edited December 1, 2013 by dashrendar44

[The Panda]

You say you're agreeing and paraphrasing what I said with the fact that the story connected with people then you make a 180 turn to say, the story is not what connected with the audience to make it big...  Pandora is the core story of Avatar, connecting with a brand new world of escapism like experiencing what it's like to start anew just like people experienced the thrill of escapism cinema like they thought they never felt till SW. That's the story of Avatar and you can't cut it and disconnect it from the rest saying "only VFX", "only 3D", "only story", it's a whole package that sold the deal, the story dictated the aesthetics, you can't separate that dynamic going through all the movie. The groundbreaking effects served the story, not the other way around. Most people forgot they were watching animated pixels but were just cheering for the characters once the final battle happened. The question I agree with is: Can Cameron reproduce that intricate dynamic without losing his audience's captivation that draw them massively into the first movie? Cameron's bet was to ensure people could immerse themselves into the theater experience and feel like a crippled escaping into this alien world through the eyes of a "born again" native alien thanks to 3D to "open our eyes and see like the first time" giving a sense of starting all anew (hence all the "wow, I never experienced that kind of immersion in movie theater before" across the world). Guess what? That's exactly the story of Avatar and Cameron totally drew obvious parrallels between Sully's story and the audience's sensations of discovering Pandora universe in 3D. The audience is Jake Sully tied in his chair for 2h30 and Pandora is movie magic thrill we immersed into.(Avatar program = 3D system)

I can agree with that, im just saying Avatar 2 won't have the fresh and new feeling Avatar had, it won't have the curiosity and phenomenon feel that Avatar originally had and so you'll see a successful movie but a good decrease from the first (similar to Empire Strikes Back), like I said Star Wars is the best comparison to this because it broke out for nearly identical reasons. (Although Star Wars was much bigger much more franchiseable than avatar IMO)

[tawasal]

Nope nope. I wasn't joking...Was curious on the image lol.I replied that you and KK's enthuasism has won me over and I will check out Horton hears a who soon.. TY Crispy and KK! How you all rate that one out of 10?

10/10 for me and that is why I have seen it more than 5 times in the theaters.

[tawasal]

Panda i dunno how you can agree with something and then disagree with it in the same post.

[Kalel009Shel]

Did they ever make Avatar t-shirts? I never saw any, but I would love to get one. AVATAR is my # 1 most favorite film of all time.

Yes they did. Proably hundreds of styles. Go online cochofles to find the best shirts , leather jackets and  things from the movie and  best prices too

[Kalel009Shel]

And that's where lies the fallacy regarding Avatar's success, people that saw it 15 times didn't just because of the amazing effects. It's the combination of the journey's story that ticked something emotional (yeah, deal with it) and the lush world of Pandora for which people went again and again to get lost into (and revolutionary VFX are just part of the equation for the latter). Like Kal said, people in the golden age don't go seeing VFX extravaganzas because they're fond of CGI, they go because the story resonated in them and the world Cameron illustrated on screen tapped into their imagination. And I think that's what happened all over the world. Only in jaded occidental countries people think Avatar did great just because of 3D "gimmick" and VFX.

 

It's like saying CF got good WOM right now just because it got Imax scenes and CGI baboons.

 

If Cameron doesn't lose his sense of awe and his effective storyteller knack till 2016, surrounded by an army of screenwriters and an army of VFX geniuses under his command, the sky is the limit.

Dash good buddy preach the Cameron  and awe of Avatar Gospel.. We have all seen the best of the best epics and awe inspiring  film making. Cameron needs just to get about 80% of what he got right with the Juggernaut 2009 and we will see another BO milestone both domestic and abroad.. Like I said havent seen golden age folks cry like that or kids in no sci fi> Heck the last thing that made people get teary and even those movies didnt quite encompass all age groups like Avatar  did was ET and Empire Strikes Back..

That is the testament to the greatest of cameron. All other directors are trying to play catchup.. Like the director  of the mighty Avengers I and III and creator of Buffy the Vampire and Angel TV Series has stated publically wing.. Cameron is the yoda, the film god  creator....There has been and will never be anything like him. Pound for pound he surpasses even Steven Speilberg at epic movie making.

 

Like it or not its because of Cameron why we keep seeing directors trying to up the ante...And Panda thinks the king of astounding people beyond belief when he sets the stage for a big epic, wont be able to do it again.

 

 

Hah hah, maybe Panda doesnt understand how many achievements Juggernaut 2009 represents. I mean

its an original story,  had nothing to relate to like how SWS had star trek to draw from and emulate.. Jurassic Park had King Kong...A movie so weird and different but yet this filmmaker makes it strike a rich chord with every demographic and it brings thems to tear and awe.

 

Cameron with a bigger budget and more toys to make a sequel is going to be scary what he comes next. I agree with you Dash buddy, the only thing he must not allow is for all these teams to warp his sensibilties in what create masterpieces.. Fox will now just give him money for every film he does and man oh man we got Battle Angelita I of III next!!! Wooohooooo!!

Edited December 1, 2013 by Superman001

[Kalel009Shel]

Panda i dunno how you can agree with something and then disagree with it in the same post.

Panda knows he will lose this battle. I'll put up 20.00 paypal if Avatar doesnt hit at least 2billion. to panda lol. You know hes a hater.. He hates that TA2 and SW7 will look like nothing  when Avatar fans flex their muscle... Perhaps he didnt hear all the nonsense with Terminator and then Terminator 2..(Cameron always takes our breath away, and that is where Panda's argument fails) And Dash made that simple point as did you all. When has cameron failed to do a better film thats far more immersive and  jaw droppingly beyond the original.

 

Hmm seems Aliens was better than ever film in the franchise with the Cameron stamp on it lol. Terminator 2 is listed on nearly every moviegoers lips in their top 3-top 10 films  of all time as is Titanic and Avatar.

 

I say Panda really is putting his foot in it.... You can bet he was one of them saying Avatar I would flop too...

 

If Cameron can take  an  original story about blue cat people revolving around a hero who is a parapledgic.. and command 10b (nearly 3B from the boxoffice alone!!)  .The man can do anything!!

 

There is no way  Avatar 2 makes less than Juggernaut 2009.. Unless something strange happens to the world. The OS market alone has some BO office watchers saying could yeild this movie 3b-4B+...

 

 

Perhaps we should telll panda, that while TA and other movies could barely find a 100M US in OS territorries. .Avatar made 100 and even up to 200+M in all the top markets..lol

Those markets have expanded up to 300% or more by the time 2015-2016 rolls...in...

 

Wont make 2.5billion you say Panda.... " Guess again!!"

 

[dashrendar44]

Like I said havent seen golden age folks cry like that or kids in no sci fi> Heck the last thing that made people get teary and even those movies didnt quite encompass all age groups like Avatar  did was ET and Empire Strikes Back..

 

 

One day at a mall just after Avatar was released on Blu-Ray, I was watching some LCD or plasma TV presentation with Avatar on. (By the way, in those HD presentations, those CGI are really as photo-realistic as it gets especially in daylight no matter what naysayers say). I was watching it for several minutes when I turned my head to see a 60-something grandma staring at the TV. I asked her if she saw the movie since she was quite interested (she was staring at it for a whole scene).

 

She told me she was in awe at the presentation, she felt that universe was so beautiful, she loved the movie since her great daughter took her to see it in a movie theater, it's an experience she'd never forget.

 

I was really surprised and astonished that a grandma would go see a scifi fantasy movie in theater, let alone love it and praise it past the craze until then.

 

True story.

 

I'm not even sure Star Wars tapped into that demography so massively.

[vc2002]

One day at a mall just after Avatar was released on Blu-Ray, I was watching some LCD or plasma TV presentation with Avatar on. (By the way, in those HD presentations, those CGI are really as photo-realistic as it gets especially in daylight no matter what naysayers say). I was watching it for several minutes when I turned my head to see a 60-something grandma staring at the TV. I asked her if she saw the movie since she was quite interested (she was staring at it for a whole scene).

 

She told me she was in awe at the presentation, she felt that universe was so beautiful, she loved the movie since her great daughter took her to see it in a movie theater, it's an experience she'd never forget.

 

I was really surprised and astonished that a grandma would go see a scifi fantasy movie in theater, let alone love it and praise it past the craze until then.

 

True story.

 

I'm not even sure Star Wars tapped into that demography so massively.

 

Did you post this story before? A litttle Deja Vu over here.

[Kalel009Shel]

Avatar 2 will gross below TDKR....

^^ Guys rem to bump these posts..lol Hah hah

[Dementeleus]

...THE ABYSS is on SyFy right now...

[Kalel009Shel]

One day at a mall just after Avatar was released on Blu-Ray, I was watching some LCD or plasma TV presentation with Avatar on. (By the way, in those HD presentations, those CGI are really as photo-realistic as it gets especially in daylight no matter what naysayers say). I was watching it for several minutes when I turned my head to see a 60-something grandma staring at the TV. I asked her if she saw the movie since she was quite interested (she was staring at it for a whole scene).

 

She told me she was in awe at the presentation, she felt that universe was so beautiful, she loved the movie since her great daughter took her to see it in a movie theater, it's an experience she'd never forget.

 

I was really surprised and astonished that a grandma would go see a scifi fantasy movie in theater, let alone love it and praise it past the craze until then.

 

True story.

 

I'm not even sure Star Wars tapped into that demography so massively.

Dash my friend.... Im 98% sure that it didn't. James Cameron's work is so ahead of everyone elses its friggin scary...

 

If he can out do the first Juggernaut on such a far surpassing scale as he did with Terminator 2 vs Terminator I.. Aliens

vs all the other films in the franchise... OMG .. Juggernaut 2 is going to burn the BO down and we will truly place James Cameron

into temple and tapestry for being in 3  places now Alltime back to back lol.

 

 

Can you Imagine

Avatar 2  (1) All time

 

Avatar (2) All time

 

Titanic (3) All time lol ROFL

[Kalel009Shel]

...THE ABYSS is on SyFy right now...

tele Im giving you the bear hug you read my mind and beat me too it.. Im watching that and Ultimate Fighter Finale back and forth..Lol even though I own the directors cut on dvd. Which gives a 180+min version and is by far better than the film release.

 

I think it is the directors cut that is on Syfi. Not sure.. heh heh.

 

Abyss is another one in my top 10 all time favorite films of all time. Though I love the directors cut more than the theatrical version

Edited December 2, 2013 by Superman001

[RobinHood26]

^^ Guys rem to bump these posts..lol Hah hah

Remember our bet? 

[dashrendar44]

Did you post this story before? A litttle Deja Vu over here.

 

Well done Neo.

 

[DeeCee]

One day at a mall just after Avatar was released on Blu-Ray, I was watching some LCD or plasma TV presentation with Avatar on. (By the way, in those HD presentations, those CGI are really as photo-realistic as it gets especially in daylight no matter what naysayers say). I was watching it for several minutes when I turned my head to see a 60-something grandma staring at the TV. I asked her if she saw the movie since she was quite interested (she was staring at it for a whole scene). She told me she was in awe at the presentation, she felt that universe was so beautiful, she loved the movie since her great daughter took her to see it in a movie theater, it's an experience she'd never forget. I was really surprised and astonished that a grandma would go see a scifi fantasy movie in theater, let alone love it and praise it past the craze until then. True story. I'm not even sure Star Wars tapped into that demography so massively.

My dad pretty much never watches Sci Fi or fantasy films and also generally doesn't stay up late. My parents upgraded to a 3D capable TV so one night I put Avatar 3D on for them. He sat there engrossed and watched the whole film until it finished after midnight.

[ZappBrannigan]

...THE ABYSS is on SyFy right now...

Man, when is The Abyss going to be released on blu-ray?  It's the one Cameron movie I haven't seen and I'd like to see it in HD.

 

Oh, and as for Avatar 2, it's going to make boatloads, duh.  Doubt Cameron at your own risk.  It's like doubting Nolan, or a Marvel movie with Iron Man.

[Kalel009Shel]

Hey Zapp...And Deee-Ceee.. .There is no doubt about it...Cameron makes miraculous things happen.. Speaking of miracles just saw the Noah Japanese Trailer....Not bad at all...Russel Crowe is Noah of Noahs Arc Legend..

 

Also Saw Anthony Hopkins in it. What do you all think of that one? Think its going to bring back Russel to top of the Alists?

[Kalel009Shel]

^^ Not you Jay....That was meant for BKB...I Bet him 20.00 that Avatar destroys Avengers 2 by at least a billion

[Kalel009Shel]

Again for friend Stingray and all my Vandamme Fans in the  Juggernaut 2015/2016 forum

 

 

The Epic Split!!--Everytime I see this commercial Im amazed Vandamme pulled this off...Total bad ass!!