Diversity and Gender Representation in Movies

[AniNate]

I don't know if Lord of the rings is the best example to use here since it is based on a popular book and changing the genders of the characters would feel like a pointless concession to "equality"; just as it would have been if they made Amy Dunne a gay dude

[KATCH-2D2]

There's nothing more natural about a character being male. Frodo would work just fine as a girl. There's nothing inherently weaker or more vulnerable about being female. Aragorn could be female. It would be perfectly credible. It is sexism. You are not being logical.

 

 

If you think that it's genre specific, you'd be wrong. Studies have been made across wide swaths of films and have found that, as a whole, women make up about 30% of all speaking roles and 15% of protagonists. This has been pretty much flat for years.

You're being ridiculous. There's nothing wrong with admitting women in general are PHYSICALLY weaker and have more vulnerabilities than men. If they're physically equal we'd have more female soldiers and construction workers. Are the army recruits being sexist too? Aragorn already worked perfectly as a male so what's the point of making him a lost princess apart from serving feminists wet dream of having a female human leading middle earth armies. To say that its perfectly 'credible' for Aragorn to be a woman is to say it would be credible for Genghis Khan to be a girl or Alexander the great to be a queen. You're not only arguing against human nature here, you're also arguing against human history. 

 

I'm always logical. I watch movies for my entertainment without gender preference or inferiority complex. Saying it's more natural to have a male soldier or a king leading and army doesn't make me sexist. If I said it's more common to have a male scientist or a male doctor then you could call me sexist.

 

And I already said how studio executives only cared about money. Genres that were Male-dominated tended to be more mainstream and marketable therefore those movies got green-lit more often. How many YA movies with female protagonists based on popular books written by female authors (what a surprise!!) have gotten made after Twilight? Did they get made because studios being less sexist or because they saw the money?

Edited May 9, 2015 by KATCH 22

[KATCH-2D2]

Of course, there's the further factor that many acts of racism and sexism aren't overt, but rather just playing along with the power structures and behaviors that the system encourages. Something like http://shitpeoplesaytowomendirectors.tumblr.com/ may document terrible acts within the movie industry that are overt, but it also shows us that there's a wider underlying problem that says to these people (men) that such behavior is okay.

Most cases are insulting but some of them aren't.

It's all in the attitude. Some women easily see themselves as victims. I don't mind if Men look at my assets because I could easily look at theirs to get even. If I don't spend my time leering at men to get even is because they aren't that attractive to me. The same way that not getting more female-led blockbusters doesn't make me feel like my gender is misrepresented.

 

Oh and I got that "You draw like a man" like a thousand times but I never took it as an insult. Why would it be an insult? I wish I could draw like a Da Vinci myself.

I can explain my point perfectly with YOUR own words;

 

So, sure. Belittle non-white women, if you like. Part of me understanding that 1) if someone says a broad complaint about my race or gender, it does not necessarily apply to my own behavior (although I may self-examine due to it... we do many things unconsciously) and 2) Even if they hate everyone like me, that doesn't make their behavior wrong, nor does it suddenly make me oppressed.

 

 

However the issue is that you see all 'minorities' as marginalized groups.

 

Most just want to work hard and earn their way, and not be paternalize by liberals suffering white guilt.

 

Agree. Not all of us need to be treated as 'a victim'.

 

 

There's nothing wrong with being a woman and an anti-feminist, I know many girls that are. I'm gay and while I don't consider myself an anti-LGBT movement, I definitely don't sympathize with them. Being anti-feminist can't mean you disagree with all feminist ideas because feminism can't claim exclusivity on all these ideas. Feminists want to end the wage gap, but that doesn't mean you're automatically a feminist if you want to end the gap, therefore, being anti-feminist doesn't mean you want the wage gap to exist. Plus, you can agree with someone's goal, but disagree with their methods, preventing women abuse and reducing pay inequality aren't bad things, that doesn't mean there's only way to fight for these things.

 

Sometimes bad behaviour is just bad behaviour, abuse is abuse, aggression is aggresion, and you don't need to break it down in multiple sub-sections like they are socially-constructed monsters that needs to be defeated. Unless you support "gender is a social construct" kind of thing, if so you're just trying to replace reality with an artificial anarchy.

 

I don't know if you're on the same line of thought as me, but I though this was worth posting.

Great post! We're obviously on the same page. Funny that to some people being an anti-feminist = being a misogynist. Things don't have to be just black and white.

Edited May 9, 2015 by KATCH 22

[Jessie]

There's nothing more natural about a character being male. Frodo would work just fine as a girl. There's nothing inherently weaker or more vulnerable about being female. Aragorn could be female. It would be perfectly credible. It is sexism. You are not being logical.

 

 

If you think that it's genre specific, you'd be wrong. Studies have been made across wide swaths of films and have found that, as a whole, women make up about 30% of all speaking roles and 15% of protagonists. This has been pretty much flat for years.

Lol Aragon a female? Are you for real? As KATCH said, this wouldn't work, it's not sexist to say that males are naturally stronger than females therefore making Aragon a female would have been pretty strange. Instead they could have added a female character to the trio (gimili, Legolas, Aragorn) however LOTR was a movie adaptation of pre-existing characters.

It's the same with superhero movies, we've had a lot of them lately and it's being male centric however they've been popular and are also based on very well known existing characters. Action movies tend to be the biggest money earners and simply put, having a male battering your villains is much more credible and a proven draw unless your names Angelina Jolie.

It's easy for people to sit here and say they want more diversity but if it was your own money you were investing in a big budget action blockbuster, I doubt anyone here would take the risk in making that lead a female and potentially losing out on millions of dollars.

[The Futurist]

For World War III, I expect nothing else but an exact male/female  parity among the troops.

 

We ll see which army/country won, the feminists or the horrible old patriarcal world. 

 

All war movies are so anti women .

 

Longest Day, Saving Private Ryan, Patton, Battle of England, a Bridge too far, Black Hawk Down ? 

Horrible and demeaning.

Edited May 9, 2015 by The Futurist

[Lordmandeep]

Females in action films have to usually act like males to be seen as cool.

[RobinHood26]

We can talk about big bad Hollywood but end of the day I respect hollywood because good work is good work. If you do good work youll get your shot

[The Stingray]

We can talk about big bad Hollywood but end of the day I respect hollywood because good work is good work. If you do good work youll get your shot

 

If only it were that simple.

[AniNate]

It's not that simple, but there's always going to be some greater injustice in the world and the best solution anyone seems to be able to come up with for this vaguely-defined issue is "Put more women in films!!" The only way there's going to be any change is through consumer response or government intervention.

[lab276]

Follow this twitter account for an insight:

https://twitter.com/ProResting

 

Miss L @ProResting · May 2

Casting: 'Girls welcome, boys preferred.' The acting industry in four little words.

Miss L @ProResting · Apr 21

Casting: 'If the girls are up to it, we'd love to do some innocent topless nudity.' When casting, it's best to be as creepy as possible...

Miss L @ProResting · Apr 19

Casting: 'Being a music video the girl needs to be attractive & have a fit body.' Because how will the men make their music otherwise?

Miss L @ProResting · Apr 18

Casting: 'The women will be playing the mechanics. The twist is they'll be in their underwear.' Yeah, great twist, bro. Real big surprise.

 

 

 

 

[Lordmandeep]

 

Follow this twitter account for an insight:

 

Casting: 'The women will be playing the mechanics. The twist is they'll be in their underwear.' Yeah, great twist, bro. Real big surprise.

 

 

Hey this scene made Megan Fox world famous, so really? 

 

It works both ways. 

 

[lab276]

Hey this scene made Megan Fox world famous, so really? 

 

It works both ways. 

 

It seems a lot of casting calls want women in their underwear, which is the problem.

[Lordmandeep]

From my experience, women use their sexuality all the time to gain better life, employment or their way on a daily basis. 

 

So it can be wrong from a casting point of view, but I do not see it as "exploitation"... 

[Spidey Freak]

From my experience, women use their sexuality all the time to gain better life, employment or their way on a daily basis. 

 

So it can be wrong from a casting point of view, but I do not see it as "exploitation"... 

  

But lordmandeep, haven't you stated that your sexism comes from not meeting many empowered women? By your own admission that would make it a very skewed/incomplete life experience.

[Lordmandeep]

But lordmandeep, haven't you stated that your sexism comes from not meeting many empowered women? By your own admission that would make it a very skewed/incomplete life experience.

 

I am not saying its a bad thing that women do that, it is a source of great power.

 

You combine intelligence and skills with sexuality and you can take over the world imo 

 

There is truth to what you say but I also have experience now in the other direction. Imo I seen it from both sides now. 

 

Being in a corporate office world  and having a certain kind of business. 

 

Everyone assume all pole dancers are exploited women, when some of them come from a broken family but most do it because they like it. They use their overwhelming sexuality to make a good living off guys. 

 

 

I am not saying women are not exploited, they usuaully are...

However this idea that they always are when they are in such situations (the office, casting, entertainment field) is not true either. 

Edited May 10, 2015 by Lordmandeep

[Alpha]

Follow this twitter account for an insight:

https://twitter.com/ProResting

Miss L @ProResting · May 2

Casting: 'Girls welcome, boys preferred.' The acting industry in four little words.

Miss L @ProResting · Apr 21

Casting: 'If the girls are up to it, we'd love to do some innocent topless nudity.' When casting, it's best to be as creepy as possible...

Miss L @ProResting · Apr 19

Casting: 'Being a music video the girl needs to be attractive & have a fit body.' Because how will the men make their music otherwise?

Miss L @ProResting · Apr 18

Casting: 'The women will be playing the mechanics. The twist is they'll be in their underwear.' Yeah, great twist, bro. Real big surprise.

Did this girl not get a callback or something?

[Spidey Freak]

I am not saying its a bad thing that women do that, it is a source of great power.

 

You combine intelligence and skills with sexuality and you can take over the world imo 

 

There is truth to what you say but I also have experience now in the other direction. Imo I seen it from both sides now. 

 

Being in a corporate office world  and having a certain kind of business. 

 

Everyone assume all pole dancers are exploited women, when some of them come from a broken family but most do it because they like it. They use their overwhelming sexuality to make a good living off guys. 

 

 

I am not saying women are not exploited, they usuaully are...

However this idea that they always are when they are in such situations (the office, casting, entertainment field) is not true either. 

 

See, in this instance, you are talking about the dynamics of a profession where women need to use their sexuality to excel in their field of work and using that to generalize dynamics of professions where sexuality isn't an obligation. Acting utilizes sexuality at times but the basic argument against Hollywood is that should not demand actresses to entirely rely upon sexuality or even consider sexuality as an obligatory aspect of the profession. Acting should try to emulate every aspect of life, and sexuality while a real part of life, is still just a part of life. So by that simple logic, if that's ALL an actress is required to be, then it is limiting her progress and achievements in her chosen line of work to a great degree.

Edited May 10, 2015 by Spidey Freak

[Lordmandeep]

See, in this instance, you are talking about the dynamics of a profession where women need to use their sexuality to excel in their field of work and using that to generalize dynamics of professions where sexuality isn't an obligation. Acting utilizes sexuality at times but the basic argument against Hollywood is that should not demand actresses to entirely rely upon sexuality or even consider sexuality as an obligatory aspect of the profession. Acting should try to emulate every aspect of life, and sexuality while a real part of life, is still just a part of life. So by that simple logic, if that's ALL an actress is required to be, then it is limiting her progress and achievements in her chosen line of work to a great degree.

 

I do not see how that  will ever change.

 

Forget about males, women do not want to see unattractive actors as  leading people in films. 

[BadAtGender]

I do not see how that  will ever change.

 

Forget about males, women do not want to see unattractive actors as  leading people in films. 

 

Y'know what? That's actually not the problem. Everyone likes watching attractive people on screen.

 

What I'd like, though, is to have rough parity between the attractive men and the attractive women in lead roles and in speaking roles. That doesn't exist right now.

 

I'd like the attractive women to have dynamic, complex, and deep characters as much as the attractive men do. I'd like to have a reason to be on screen for reasons OTHER than their attractiveness.

 

I'd like to see attractive women of all ages and ethnicities getting these roles instead of the current way that all of Hollywood apparently fixates on the same three white women aged 25-35 for every single possible role.

 

I'd like to see attractive women appear in films together, and have conversations with each other. About things besides men.

 

I'm good with attractive women on screen. But they can still get all the opportunities of attractive men.

 

(And also, there are considerable opportunities for unattractive men. I'd like to see those same opportunities extend to unattractive women.)

[Lordmandeep]

However I noticed even for villain roles the female has to be attractive.