Claudio Posted March 23, 2019 Share Posted March 23, 2019 Do people really think that Jason at the end was a doppelganger because he has been switched??? Just doesn't make sense with the burn on his doppelganger face , doppelganger death and there is no scene which showed us that either. I mean if he is indeed has been switched then he should be switched way before the main scene of the main family starts. If they are basing their theory on the last scene where Jason acted weird , then they are overthinking it IMO as that scene was meant to show how Jason finally realizes that his mother all along was a Fake one. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyGossamer Posted March 23, 2019 Share Posted March 23, 2019 7 minutes ago, Claudio said: Do people really think that Jason at the end was a doppelganger because he has been switched??? Just doesn't make sense with the burn on his doppelganger face , doppelganger death and there is no scene which showed us that either. I mean if he is indeed has been switched then he should be switched way before the main scene of the main family starts. If they are basing their theory on the last scene where Jason acted weird , then they are overthinking it IMO as that scene was meant to show how Jason finally realizes that his mother all along was a Fake one. Uh. Yeah. You're right. I think he's more like his mother than anyone else and has a better connection or understanding of how to control his double. Unless there's a throwaway line I missed, there zero reason to believe he's not her actual son the entire time. Or, done switch was made. Twist is he realizes that she's one of them. Sees her grunting and acting like one of them earlier in the movie too, no? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valonqar Posted March 23, 2019 Share Posted March 23, 2019 8 minutes ago, Claudio said: Do people really think that Jason at the end was a doppelganger because he has been switched??? Just doesn't make sense with the burn on his doppelganger face , doppelganger death and there is no scene which showed us that either. I mean if he is indeed has been switched then he should be switched way before the main scene of the main family starts. If they are basing their theory on the last scene where Jason acted weird , then they are overthinking it IMO as that scene was meant to show how Jason finally realizes that his mother all along was a Fake one. Jason wasn't switched. he's Tethered like his mom, that's all. But he wasn't switched. The children are of mixed heritage, a Tethered mother and a human father. Daughter is clearly like her father and son is clearly like his mother. That's why he can control the other boy (who is human like his mom but rendered mute by facial burns/scars) like how his mom learning ballet made real Adelaide learn ballet. remember that she said that it worked like puppets or something? you pull a clone string and the original dances. so since mom's ballet lessons pulled Adelaide's ballet strings, Jason pulling Pluto's strings mark him as Tethered not Pluto (remember, he's of mixed heritage too). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyGossamer Posted March 23, 2019 Share Posted March 23, 2019 (edited) 46 minutes ago, Valonqar said: I think that reasons are very practical. Guns = loud. if the family used them, he would have to write in people coming to check what was going on. if the family heard guns, they would know that something bad was happening. so it had to be no guns, at least not in the hearing range of the family and their neighbors (excluding the sad sack who saw Umbrae on his car). Also, most importantly, horror movies are built on cold weapons so that's a trope that has to be in. You don't have gun-totin horror hence slasher horror sub-genre. The copters could be news and I'm sure someone will zoom them eventually to settle the matter. We did see a Tethered attack the reporter/cameraman and presumably kill him since the camera fell to the ground, so there was a bit of news coverage. I do think that both that news coverage and areal shot of Hands Across America was more for the audience to grasp the scale of the disaster than make a vague statement. Initial news coverage was just a really lazy reveal. Kind of a disappointing one that I preferred wasn't there. It's already pretty obvious once we see it's another family. Probably could just remove it and the movie's better for it. Similar to the "abandoned government experiment" exposition dump. Just not needed. Ambiguity works better for me especially with overwhelming nod to a wrathful God allowing an evil uprising with 11:11 plastered all over the movie. Edited March 23, 2019 by JohnnyGossamer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valonqar Posted March 23, 2019 Share Posted March 23, 2019 (edited) 11 minutes ago, JohnnyGossamer said: Initial news coverage was just a really lazy reveal. Kind of a disappointing one that I preferred wasn't there. Probably could just remove it and the movie's better for it. Similar to the "abandoned government experiment" exposition dump. Just not needed. Ambiguity works better for me especially with overwhelming nod to a wrathful God allowing an evil uprising with 11:11. This. If Peele left the origin of the Tethered and where they come from a mystery (lets say Real Red descends into the underworld through a mirror portal but it's up to us to imagine what that world really is) people wouldn't rightfully ask how rabbits are fed, how clothes are made, etc. because realms that aren't our own can have any rules they like so people suspend the disbelief. But by tying the Tethered origin to real life, he lost the luxury of lets say "magic rules" so people couldn't suspend the disbelief that clones who live right under us and feed off rabbits somehow wear modern clothes, produce identical uniforms and scissors, etc. IMO, it was one information too many. You have to keep it vague and mysterious or you run into a string of plot holes that people get hung up on (and rightfully so). also, now that you mentioned God and 11:11, never mix mysticism and science. either or. so is it God or is it science who did it? cause if you do, you get midichlorians. And abandoned government experiment is this movie's midichlorians based on reactions I see everywhere. even people who love it (and many do) are meh about that reveal. Edited March 23, 2019 by Valonqar 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyGossamer Posted March 23, 2019 Share Posted March 23, 2019 Yeah. Agreed. I did just about love it by the way. Too much great in it to not for me. But, it has some things that took me out of it just as you mentioned. I do like to wonder if the surviving Lupita subconsciously helped orchestrate it even more than the movie lets on. Also like wondering if Red somewhat allowed herself to be killed at the end. I'd argue Red still wins. Her message is writ large, standing hand in hand across the country. She's more successful than anyone else in the movie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claudio Posted March 23, 2019 Share Posted March 23, 2019 3 minutes ago, JohnnyGossamer said: Uh. Yeah. You're right. I think he's more like his mother than anyone else and has a better connection or understanding of how to control his double. Unless there's a throwaway line I missed, there zero reason to believe he's not her actual son the entire time. Or, done switch was made. Twist is he realizes that she's one of them. Sees her grunting and acting like one of them earlier in the movie too, no? Yup. That’s what I get too from the movie but I don’t think that Jason realizes that earlier. I think Jason realizes that on the final battle between two Adelaide when he is in the locker ( of course he can still hear and see a little bit ) and he saw Adelaide ( which is the doppelgänger and his mom ) kills the other Adelaide ( the poor one / red one ) and then she’s laughing like a psycho . Adelaide also acting weird after she releases him cause she also knew that Jason has discovered the truth. The last scene on the car with that look between them just to make it clear for the audiences with a flashback on top of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claudio Posted March 23, 2019 Share Posted March 23, 2019 18 minutes ago, Valonqar said: Jason wasn't switched. he's Tethered like his mom, that's all. But he wasn't switched. The children are of mixed heritage, a Tethered mother and a human father. Daughter is clearly like her father and son is clearly like his mother. That's why he can control the other boy (who is human like his mom but rendered mute by facial burns/scars) like how his mom learning ballet made real Adelaide learn ballet. remember that she said that it worked like puppets or something? you pull a clone string and the original dances. so since mom's ballet lessons pulled Adelaide's ballet strings, Jason pulling Pluto's strings mark him as Tethered not Pluto (remember, he's of mixed heritage too). Yeah I knew that. That’s exactly why I feel confused about them who thought that Jason was switched... I saw a theory about it posted by someone on Indonesia forum also on YouTube comments where it got many likes lol. As for he’s tethered , I think you’re right. I never think about it lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valonqar Posted March 23, 2019 Share Posted March 23, 2019 (edited) Both of them win. Real Adelaide wins because she liberated the Tethered and the world has to deal with them somehow, won't be able to send them back. Real Red wins because she is a proof that a Tethered can be un-Tethered with love, care, nurturing, art. speaking of art, while she was given ballet lessons to express herself, Jason uses paintings/drawings to show stuff that he can't/doesn't want to talk about. The therapist that suggested ballet to Adelaide's parents also suggested painting. It's also notable that Real Red had more care for Real Adelaide's children than Adelaide herself, since Adelaide was too wrapped in her global plan to actually be a mother. So when Umbrae was dying, it's Real red who comforted her, not Real Adelaide. And when Adelaide send Pluto to set the trap for the Wilsons, it's Red who is scared for him and tries to stop him from walking into the burning car (courtesy of her son Jason). Adelaide basically sacrificed him to get her revenge. Re: when Jason realizes. I think that he knew/suspected all along (remember that he made sand tunnels rather than sand castles so one of the twins thought him weird, possibly she told him somehow or "genetic memory") but seeing her growl when she killed the twin and then hearing the exposition dump sealed the deal. I also read the car scene as that she felt guilt over what she did to young Adelaide but decided that it was worth it cause Jason (whom she clearly loves above all else) was free/had opportunities. hence her smile and his kind of accepting that they have a secret. Edited March 23, 2019 by Valonqar 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyGossamer Posted March 23, 2019 Share Posted March 23, 2019 https://bloody-disgusting.com/movie/3539483/10-films-jordan-peele-lupita-nyongo-watch-filming-us-included-martyrs/ No wonder it feels like it's stretching all over place. Good grief... That's a huge list of must watch flicks for Lupita before filming... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mulder Posted March 23, 2019 Share Posted March 23, 2019 2 minutes ago, JohnnyGossamer said: https://bloody-disgusting.com/movie/3539483/10-films-jordan-peele-lupita-nyongo-watch-filming-us-included-martyrs/ No wonder it feels like it's stretching all over place. Good grief... That's a huge list of must watch flicks for Lupita before filming... I knew the ending was trying to ape The Birds.... Didn't work anywhere near as effectively as The Birds' ending did and The Birds is one of the lesser Hitchcock efforts tbh 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Djsoke Posted March 23, 2019 Share Posted March 23, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, Claudio said: Do people really think that Jason at the end was a doppelganger because he has been switched??? Just doesn't make sense with the burn on his doppelganger face , doppelganger death and there is no scene which showed us that either. I mean if he is indeed has been switched then he should be switched way before the main scene of the main family starts. If they are basing their theory on the last scene where Jason acted weird , then they are overthinking it IMO as that scene was meant to show how Jason finally realizes that his mother all along was a Fake one. I thought that Jason had gotten some "tethered-ness" from his mother, which is why his relationship with his duplicate was different, and why he had been able to figure it out at the end. Could be wrong though Edited March 23, 2019 by Djsoke 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frozen Posted March 23, 2019 Share Posted March 23, 2019 I just got out of the movie and the ending makes zero sense to me. How could she be the other girl and have her exact memories? The switch makes zero sense to me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyGossamer Posted March 23, 2019 Share Posted March 23, 2019 1 minute ago, Frozen said: I just got out of the movie and the ending makes zero sense to me. How could she be the other girl and have her exact memories? The switch makes zero sense to me. Well, they shared a consciousness in a way. And, pretty sure she doesn't really have much of her memories before the age of 6 or whatever she was when the switch happened. The goofy, unnecessary science experiment abandoned but they just left all of us down here certainly makes zero sense though. I'd have kept that unexplained. Because, no explanation is gonna make much sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frozen Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 Actually the more I think about it, the more I guess the switch does make sense. The girl left the fun house and could not speak. She had to relearn everything. Red was the only one of her kind that could speak. This is the kind of movie you need to see twice to get it all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cap Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 Winston Duke on that bed, thiccccc thighs open. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PDC1987 Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 14 minutes ago, captainwondyful said: Winston Duke on that bed, thiccccc thighs open. So hot. Gorgeous man. On a more serious note, how realistic is a major Best Actress Oscar campaign for Lupita? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Lasagna Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 maybe some of y'all will get a kick outta this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dashrendar44 Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 7 hours ago, JohnnyGossamer said: Initial news coverage was just a really lazy reveal. Kind of a disappointing one that I preferred wasn't there. It's already pretty obvious once we see it's another family. Probably could just remove it and the movie's better for it. Similar to the "abandoned government experiment" exposition dump. Just not needed. Ambiguity works better for me especially with overwhelming nod to a wrathful God allowing an evil uprising with 11:11 plastered all over the movie. I would have prefered if it was some biblical allegory framed like a fever dream rather than trying to rationalize every single thing in a tacked on exposition dump at the end capped by a "gotcha" wink. (Even though, most peeped that "reveal" almost right away as it is telegraphed at the beginning). It opened it up to unnecessary questions and plot holes nitpicking that didn't even need to be adressed if it had left to surrealism and ambiguity. I mean, Peele pretends to tackle "America's ills and repressed subconscious" with government conspiracy mixed in but chooses to illustrate a nationwide uprising with scissors...without addressing America's gun culture. I mean nobody tried to pop up those performance artists We Are The World We Are The Children in Slipknot jumpsuits muthafuckas?! Cali, where it's at? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyGossamer Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 (edited) 33 minutes ago, dashrendar44 said: I would have prefered if it was some biblical allegory framed like a fever dream rather than trying to rationalize every single thing in a tacked on exposition dump at the end capped by a "gotcha" wink. (Even though, most peeped that "reveal" almost right away as it is telegraphed at the beginning). It opened it up to unnecessary questions and plot holes nitpicking that didn't even need to be adressed if it had left to surrealism and ambiguity. I mean, Peele pretends to tackle "America's ills and repressed subconscious" with government conspiracy mixed in but chooses to illustrate a nationwide uprising with scissors...without addressing America's gun culture. I mean nobody tried to pop up those performance artists We Are The World We Are The Children in Slipknot jumpsuits muthafuckas?! Cali, where it's at? Yeah. It's one I like less when I mull it over. Not really much to it. Exposition dump was shit choice. Gotcha moment silly too given how hammered home it was before the moment. And, does nothing for it even after delivered. Just more to toss on the muddled, sprawling, choose your own meaning for a repressed, underprivileged, forgotten, overlooked uprising. Less explanation would've been more here for sure because he didn't have a precise anything in mind. Fever dream is the better route. Agreed. Still loved some of technical stuff. Some great visual beats. Maybe even a lot of them. But, yeah, you could read a lot into a lot of movies, especially horror. People just generally choose not to... Acting is pretty much great from everyone, especially Lupita. Seeing the list she was given to watch kind of pains me. Almost all of which are more focused, fleshed out... Better movies. Movies with deadly doubles that I prefer would be Halloween 3, Possession, Enemy, Body Snatchers '56 & '78, Suture. I'm sure there are more... Wish he did more with the "puppetry." Did love the fight choreographed to 5 On It. Edited March 24, 2019 by JohnnyGossamer 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
