Disney+ MCU: The Falcon & The Winter Soldier | Featuring Captain Ughmerica and Battlestar Galactica

[Madhuvan]

This is a video I wanna share which touches some details about covid affecting this shows. Don't know how reputable or credible this is. But remember that WV also got changes in storyline due to covid-19.

Contains spoilers of first 4 episodes. 

 

Spoiler

 

 

[grey ghost]

I'm not sure how a person can view WandaVision as the supervisor show.

 

The show's highlights like Zemo, John Walker, Bucky, Isiah Bradley, Valentina, Wakanda, and the badass action scenes put above Legion-lite imo.

Edited April 17, 2021 by grey ghost

[Menor the Destroyer]

4 hours ago, TwoMisfits said:

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One more thing about the montage, which to me is as bad as the "Martha" moment was for DC for ridiculousness...Sam was EASILY throwing the shield around with Bucky FIVE MINUTES before in the episode, bouncing it off 3 trees and playing back and forth catch...and now, he can't catch it in one bounce...really???  Now, if I was on the production team, I'd say they stole the epilogue episode 6 scene and shoved it in to this one and hoped we wouldn't notice...sorry, we did...bad plotting and pacing in a nutshell...

 

Sorry, but sometimes there are moments that are just so bad, they torch even the goodness that was there...

Spoiler

In that scene, Sam throws it casually off a tree once and catches it. He throws it again, it bounces off 3 trees, and Bucky catches it. In the montage, he is throwing it at higher speeds and trying to catch it while in motion. Not the same maneuvers whatsoever. 

 

Edited April 17, 2021 by Menor

[Valonqar]

2 hours ago, grey ghost said:

I'm not sure how a person can view WandaVision as the supervisor show.

 

 

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The show's highlights like Zemo, John Walker, Bucky, Isiah Bradley, Valentina, Wakanda, and the badass action scenes put above Legion-lite imo.

 

because highlights don't equal coherence. Quite a few of these highlights didn't really gel. They are nice in a vacuum but no so much all together. My opinion, of course. I would lose a few that really weren't essential but more like fan service. 

 

Let me put it this way. I feel that his show or season (is there going to be more?) have at least 2 seasons rolled in one. Season 1 - Sam becomes the rightful Cap while Walker falls from grace. Season 2 - Flagsmashers and teaming up with Zemo to take them down. But these "seasons" together created a disjoined, meandering whole, IMO. Either way, JLD will win Emmy for the Actress in a Guest Role. 

[cax16]

Always interesting to read all the different perspectives on these shows.

 

I’ve enjoyed this show a lot, looking forward to the next episode. 

[grey ghost]

12 hours ago, Valonqar said:

 

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because highlights don't equal coherence. Quite a few of these highlights didn't really gel. They are nice in a vacuum but no so much all together. My opinion, of course. I would lose a few that really weren't essential but more like fan service. 

 

 

Let me put it this way. I feel that his show or season (is there going to be more?) have at least 2 seasons rolled in one. Season 1 - Sam becomes the rightful Cap while Walker falls from grace. Season 2 - Flagsmashers and teaming up with Zemo to take them down. But these "seasons" together created a disjoined, meandering whole, IMO. Either way, JLD will win Emmy for the Actress in a Guest Role. 

 

 

I don't have a problem following two story lines especially when they're interconnected. 

[Daxtreme]

I really liked how this episode focused on more personal stuff instead of throwing action at us relentlessly. This is what TV is best used for.

 

That being said, I have many issues with this show overall, and this episode didn't really help fix any of them.

 

Spoiler

They have one episode to undo this power broker crap on Sharon, else her character is officially ruined. No way that Peggy's niece with a background of being such a righteous person in previous movies (siding with Cap every single time) would go and undo all of this for no apparent reason. I really hope they have something in store here, anything that redeems this.

 

The antagonists seem to come straight out of a CW show to be honest. They are, quite simply, atrocious. Karli is a cringy, unbelievably bad, unrelatable, bland character played by an equally poor actress with no screen presence whatsoever, it's hilariously bad in fact. I can't believe they thought she would make a good antagonist against badasses like Sam and Bucky. I'm still not convinced that she's 100% an antagonist because they are trying to portray her as sympathetic somewhat (and they're failing at that because she's killing left and right). Like when she killed Lemar and suddenly grew a conscience? She literally blew up a GRC building the episode before killing several people. She's a killer and doesn't care. Gosh what a bad character, so poorly thought-out.

 

I like that they're tackling racism in the US head-on, loving this development so far, quite surprising too. Let's see where it goes. The directing still feels uninspired to me though.

 

Bucky and Sam together are what make this show. Every time it cuts to something else the show suffers for it. Except maybe John Walker, who is actually getting better and better as a character as the show progresses. 

 

Lastly, Batroc speaks French, people answer him in English which is fine. Sharon could answer in French easily as Emily VanCamp is fully fluent in French, but that's all right, I don't mind. But then, this one time that someone replies in French, they decide to pick the one person in this show who can't speak French to save their lives: Karli, played by an English actress. Her French accent was so thick I couldn't understand what she was saying, and I'm a native speaker. I was watching with 2 people and we all went "wait what the hell?" and laughed it off. Luckily they hard-subbed the French parts lol

 

On the subject of WandaVision vs this show, Elizabeth Olsen and Paul Bettany's performances are so much more brilliant and impactful. Elizabeth's range in particular was astonishing. However, narrative-wise WV had major problems near the end so it's not that much better. Still way more interesting to me. But on the acting front? lmao is all I'm gonna say

 

Edited April 18, 2021 by Daxtreme

[grey ghost]

WandaVision had brilliant acting?

 

 

[filmlover]

Spoiler

Casting Legends Kathryn Hahn and Julia Louis-Dreyfus as villains...

...is all the proof we need that the MCU knows how to give The People exactly what they want better than anyone else.

[Valonqar]

5 hours ago, grey ghost said:

I don't have a problem following two story lines especially when they're interconnected. 

I don't have a problem either. I just think it's overstuffed and therefore none of those ideas gets to breathe and develop.

 

That said, to me, the best thing about this show, which is why it's a worthy addition warts and all, is showing us what it's like to have Cap who isn't a Steve Rogers type like Steve and Sam. That's really interesting aspect of the show. A flawed Cap who shouldn't be Cap but is Cap temporarily. Much better than lets say have Steve/Sam meet an edgy alternate universe self or get possessed by Venom or have a 30 seconds vision like Rey Palpatine. 

 

 

 

@Daxtreme Well said!

Edited April 18, 2021 by Valonqar

[Wormow]

This episode proved that Sam as a character has so much to give, but I really do feel like the show has failed in shining a light and truly spotlighting the character. He's felt more like a secondary character after the first episode, taking a back seat to Bucky and Zemo. I wanted to see so much more Sam to turn his character into one truly deserving of taking on the mantle of the shield. He has a really interesting arc and even the Isaiah Bradley stuff is so juicy, but instead so much of the show is about the Flag Smashers which is just okay?? but nothing really innovative or new. John Walker has the best arc in the show though (but I feel like he's going to pull an Agatha and go cliché, cheesy villain by the end of this)

 

I also like the idea that the symbol of the shield isn't as heroic or "good" as people perk it up to be. I wish that leaned in on that more. Dismantle what we consider the norm or popular view.

 

Also, despite being six episodes, I feel like the run time isn't being used very wisely. There's so much unnecessary padding and filler, in both this show and WV (which I still loved) - like you're being given extra run time to truly flesh out the characters and story, use that time! Both shows feel like a movie that's just had added fluff into the story that could easily be condensed into a 2-3 hour movie.

 

 

Edited April 19, 2021 by Wormow

[Madhuvan]

20 minutes ago, Wormow said:

This episode proved that Sam as a character has so much to give, but I really do feel like the show has failed in shining a light and truly spotlighting the character. He's felt more like a secondary character after the first episode, taking a back seat to Bucky and Zemo. I wanted to see so much more Sam to turn his character into one truly deserving of taking on the mantle of the shield. He has a really interesting arc and even the Isaiah Bradley stuff is so juicy, but instead so much of the show is about the Flag Smashers which is just okay?? but nothing really innovative or new. John Walker has the best arc in the show though (but I feel like he's going to pull an Agatha and go cliché, cheesy villain by the end of this)

 

I also like the idea that the symbol of the shield isn't as heroic or "good" as people perk it up to be. I wish that leaned in on that more. Dismantle what we consider the norm or popular view.

 

Also, despite being six episodes, I feel like the run time isn't being used very wisely. There's so much unnecessary padding and filler, in both this show and WV (which I still loved) - like you're being given extra run time to truly flesh out the characters and story, use that time! Both shows feel like a movie that's just had added fluff into the story that could easily be condensed into a 2-3 hour movie.

 

 

I think slowly and with experience MCU TV shows will get better and better. Loki looks twice as promising both these shows already. 

 

[Liiviig 1998]

6 hours ago, Wormow said:

This episode proved that Sam as a character has so much to give, but I really do feel like the show has failed in shining a light and truly spotlighting the character. He's felt more like a secondary character after the first episode, taking a back seat to Bucky and Zemo. I wanted to see so much more Sam to turn his character into one truly deserving of taking on the mantle of the shield. He has a really interesting arc and even the Isaiah Bradley stuff is so juicy, but instead so much of the show is about the Flag Smashers which is just okay?? but nothing really innovative or new. John Walker has the best arc in the show though (but I feel like he's going to pull an Agatha and go cliché, cheesy villain by the end of this)

 

I also like the idea that the symbol of the shield isn't as heroic or "good" as people perk it up to be. I wish that leaned in on that more. Dismantle what we consider the norm or popular view.

 

Also, despite being six episodes, I feel like the run time isn't being used very wisely. There's so much unnecessary padding and filler, in both this show and WV (which I still loved) - like you're being given extra run time to truly flesh out the characters and story, use that time! Both shows feel like a movie that's just had added fluff into the story that could easily be condensed into a 2-3 hour movie.

 

 

Episode 5 did basically what I wanted from the show . More time with bucky and sam and adding more to walker character . This political stuff is just dragging the show down .

Mcu should play to it's strength which is giving us fun and relatable characters with a decent dose of nuance  and  some good action. 

 

Sheild has been over politicized for nothing tbh . It was always about man behind the sheild and not the sheild itself.

 

Walker was chosen because he was a decorated soldier which is the misconception today where poeple are chosen on outward competence with out major consideration for basic  moral values . The gov't choosing him made enough inferable sense in the story.

 

If there was political reasons behind them choosing give walker the sheild ,the show did nothing much  to put it forth. All it gave us was just some dialogue btn sam and isaiah which lasted 10mins over the entire fucking show. I understand it's juicy for some and works for them which is fine.

But as I had said earlier this comes off shallow. Show don't tell.

 

This episode showed why sam is worthy of the mantle and Sam shined all through this episode which I can't say for the previous episodes where he was just overshadowed and did nothing for his development.

 

This whole  racial lens theme of this  show is held  together by sam giving up the shield for the reason we were not shown but just told in one episode in this series. If he held onto the sheild probably giving it to walker would have never happened.

 

Episode 5 for the most part was good and a welcome episode in a sea of mediocrity and exposition.

 

 

Edited April 19, 2021 by Liiviig 1998

[Valonqar]

5 hours ago, Wormow said:

This episode proved that Sam as a character has so much to give, but I really do feel like the show has failed in shining a light and truly spotlighting the character.

Yep and it tends to happen when the lead is surrounded by much more interesting characters who then take audience attention away from the lead. And that's also something that writers (should) know but do nothing about. I mean, you don't have to be a genius to know that, if you give your lead bathroom break scenes such as bank loan, while your supporting character gets an insta meme snarl when he decapitates a terrorist with the Cap shield, that audience will be more interested in and talk about the latter rather than the former. It's writing 101. 

 

I mean, when TFA script was written and re-written, they noticed that Luke, who was originally Rey's companion, completely overshadowed Rey. So they shelved Luke and replaced him with Finn, who was so (deliberately) inferior to Rey in every way, that she easily popped. Not that she was an interesting character or well written but juxtaposed to much worse character, she looked like million $$$ (cute as a button, badass, smartest girl in the room, power puff, everything that he was not). So Falcon writers should have noticed that Bucky/Zemo/Walker were written in a way that would get fans talking and buzzed because they were in the spotlight but didn't expend the same courtesy to Sam. Cause the trick isn't to make the rest of characters worse (see TFA example) but that the lead is interesting enough to sustain the onslaught of interesting supporting characters and shines despite the competition. 

Edited April 19, 2021 by Valonqar

[Menor the Destroyer]

3 hours ago, Liiviig 1998 said:

Episode 5 did basically what I wanted from the show . More time with bucky and sam and adding more to walker character . This political stuff is just dragging the show down .

Mcu should play to it's strength which is giving us fun and relatable characters with a decent dose of nuance  and  some good action. 

 

Sheild has been over politicized for nothing tbh . It was always about man behind the sheild and not the sheild itself.

 

Walker was chosen because he was a decorated soldier which is the misconception today where poeple are chosen on outward competence with out major consideration for basic  moral values . The gov't choosing him made enough inferable sense in the story.

 

If there was political reasons behind them choosing give walker the sheild ,the show did nothing much  to put it forth. All it gave us was just some dialogue btn sam and isaiah which lasted 10mins over the entire fucking show. I understand it's juicy for some and works for them which is fine.

But as I had said earlier this comes off shallow. Show don't tell.

 

This episode showed why sam is worthy of the mantle and Sam shined all through this episode which I can't say for the previous episodes where he was just overshadowed and did nothing for his development.

 

Cap wasn't exactly chosen either. After receiving the serum and it being lost ,he was resigned to just being an amusement to audience poster boy until he decided to rescue the soldiers from red skull and sacrificing himself in the end. Steve willed himself to the mantle of cap america. .

 

This whole  racial lens theme of this  show is held  together by sam giving up the shield for the reason we were not shown but just told in one episode in this series. If he held onto the sheild probably giving it to walker would have never happened.

Apology btn bucky and sam just doesn't work for me the more I think about because of how shallow the racial lens reasoning is.

 

Only one  major theme has been put forth is the man within (sam vs walker) which I wished was focused more on instead of this flagsmasher stuff and abrupt racial lens that honestly doesn't need to be there.

 

 

Episode 5 for the most part was good and a welcome episode in a sea of mediocrity and exposition.

 

Will Reduce it from 8.2 to 7.5/10

 

I also think that the moral contrast between Sam and Walker is better written than the racial themes, but I think the racial storyline is also decent enough for this kind of show. I also feel like the focus has been more on the idea that Sam's moral strength makes him the most worthy to be Captain America, though. The racial aspect just adds an extra dimension. 

1 hour ago, Valonqar said:

Yep and it tends to happen when the lead is surrounded by much more interesting characters who then take audience attention away from the lead. And that's also something that writers (should) know but do nothing about. I mean, you don't have to be a genius to know that, if you give your lead bathroom break scenes such as bank loan, while your supporting character gets an insta meme snarl when he decapitates a terrorist with the Cap shield, that audience will be more interested in and talk about the latter rather than the former. It's writing 101. 

 

I mean, when TFA script was written and re-written, they noticed that Luke, who was originally Rey's companion, completely overshadowed Rey. So they shelved Luke and replaced him with Finn, who was so (deliberately) inferior to Rey in every way, that she easily popped. Not that she was an interesting character or well written but juxtaposed to much worse character, she looked like million $$$ (cute as a button, badass, smartest girl in the room, power puff, everything that he was not). So Falcon writers should have noticed that Bucky/Zemo/Walker were written in a way that would get fans talking and buzzed because they were in the spotlight but didn't expend the same courtesy to Sam. Cause the trick isn't to make the rest of characters worse (see TFA example) but that the lead is interesting enough to sustain the onslaught of interesting supporting characters and shines despite the competition. 

The only way I think Sam has been underserved in this series is so many action scenes taking place on the ground instead of in the air. He deserves more chances to show off those wings. Other than that, I don't think he needs "flashy" moments, since that " flashy" moment with Walker you mention shows exactly why Walker shouldn't be Captain America. I also thought both Rey and Finn were interesting enough characters after TFA (though I didn't like their storylines in subsequent films) so I don't agree with your characterization of that example, either. 

Edited April 19, 2021 by Menor

[filmlover]

I don't think Sam/Mackie has been underserved at all by the show, but I do feel like the writing has let him down as a character in a few ways. This show has mostly fallen flat in its attempts at social commentary tbh.

 

We'll see what the payoff is but I feel like there's a possible decent version of this without the Flag-Smashers at all, since everything with them just grinds things to a halt. Doesn't help that Karli is so bland and Erin Kellyman is a really lousy actress - doesn't bode well for that upcoming Willow reboot if one of their leads is completely devoid of screen presence.

[Valonqar]

21 minutes ago, filmlover said:

I don't think Sam/Mackie has been underserved at all by the show, but I do feel like the writing has let him down as a character in a few ways. This show has mostly fallen flat in its attempts at social commentary tbh.

 

We'll see what the payoff is but I feel like there's a possible decent version of this without the Flag-Smashers at all, since everything with them just grinds things to a halt. Doesn't help that Karli is so bland and Erin Kellyman is a really lousy actress - doesn't bode well for that upcoming Willow reboot if one of their leads is completely devoid of screen presence.

Yeah Disney's infatuation with Kellyman is baffling. I expect her to be on Lando since it's the same timeline as Solo. Here's hoping that Ellie Bamber (who is excellent on The Serpent) is the real lead on Willow. I think Kellyman has a contract with Disney to do ________ number of shows so that explains why they put her in everything (figuratively).

Edited April 19, 2021 by Valonqar

[Valonqar]

So as expected, this will have seasons and Disney will campaign it in Drama for the Emmy's. That way they avoid competition with WV in Limited. Neither can win the series (Drama = The Crown, Limited = The Queen's Gambit + Anya in Limited Actress). WV will get in for Limited Series, Actress, Supporting Actress (Hahn), maybe Actor. F&WS could get in for series if 8 spots instead of 5, JLD is winning Guest, possible Support nom for Bruhl (likelier) or Russell (less so).  Not sure if Loki will be eligible for Emmy's this year. For next year, Miss Marvel is going to be their big play in Drama or Comedy (it's a series not Limited right?). 

[filmlover]

I honestly highly doubt the Emmys will go for this at all other other than techs (maybe). WandaVision should do well with them though since it had to recreate iconic sitcoms across multiple decades. 

[Valonqar]

2 minutes ago, filmlover said:

I honestly highly doubt the Emmys will go for this at all other other than techs (maybe). WandaVision should do well with them though since it had to recreate iconic sitcoms across multiple decades. 

Techs are guaranteed but higher nominations are possible in categories that aren't stacked or have more than 5. Though WV is current Top 3 in Limited Series, Actress in Limited and Supporting Actress in Limited. It also got DGA nom (the winner was The Queen's Gambit) so that bodes well for possible Director nomination. But as far as wins go, JLD in Guest Actor is an almost lock.