Sp4rk Discussion Thread

[Ezen Baklattan]

@cookie @Rorschach @4815162342 @Ethan Hunt @YourMother the Edgelord @Slambros @Reddroast

 

I did want to let you know that I did make a few changes to one of the character's arcs. Very small details/dialogue, but if you just Ctrl+F

 

For pages I changed: (Generally a little bit of dialogue or paragraphs). Nothing big at all.

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21-22, 24, 41, 47, 57, 60

 

For what I changed:

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Some stuff about Kozar's arc wasn't quite sitting right with me. I wanted to establish him as a loyal, passionate force to back Alex, but looking back, I felt like I framed things in a bit of a cringeworthy way. (i.e. Kozar being jealous of Alex's powers) which kinda felt out of character. Shifting towards the new version, he's more racked with guilt, especially in the context of Ezen and Katherine's death, and his ample loyalty, kindness, and compassion gets a bit more of a sad undercurrent.

 

 

[Ezen Baklattan]

I will even go through and comment out what changed. Ultimately, it's pretty minimal, and most of the major effects/outcomes are the same.

 

Remember that one iffy line that made it into the final cut of NFTO? These changes are more in line with making adjustments like that rather than changing the plot substantially. 95% of what I changed was just dialogue, to that point.

 

Expect more of a detailed summary tonight.

[cookie]

1 hour ago, Spaghetti HATED TS4 said:

Remember that one iffy line that made it into the final cut of NFTO? 

Which one was that? I've read the final version twice in full (three times with the OG draft) and I don't remember any line that stood out as particularly iffy.

Edited June 25, 2019 by cookie

[Ezen Baklattan]

22 minutes ago, cookie said:

Which one was that? I've read the final version twice in full (three times with the OG draft) and I don't remember any line that stood out as particularly iffy.

It was about Meg discussing that she could be cured - I remember hearing that it can be kinda dicey to bring up related to depression and anxiety.

[Ezen Baklattan]

@4815162342 @Slambros @cookie @Reddroast @Rorschach @YourMother the Edgelord @Ethan Hunt

 

Here's what got tweaked. Luckily, it's all very minor. Nothing past the three-quarters point got changed.

 

Spoiler

PAGE 22: (After Altren berates Alex for defying her orders) - Dialogue between Alex and Kozar changed.

Kozar's dialogue kinda came off in a way that didn't sit right with me. I kinda reframed their exchange (and the following paragraph) to center more on Kozar's guilt and uncertainty.

 

PAGE 24: (At the ship wide celebration) - Dialogue between Alex and Kozar changed.

Kinda similar ground to the above change.

 

PAGE 41: (Before Alex and Kozar set up their wedding) - Paragraph before dialogue break change

Kinda similar ground to the above changes, but also fitting in a bit more foreshadowing a bit more succinctly.

 

PAGE 47: (Tarek finds the gang as the Presidio gets destroyed) - Dialogue between Kozar and Tarek changed.

I fit Tarek's speech to be more in line with Kozar's insecurities, while allowing him to dig the knife into our heroes further. Makes what happens to him later on all the more satisfying.

 

PAGE 57: (Xevarre holds Kozar "hostage") - Dialogue between Kozar and Xevarre changed.

Again, tweaking a bit to fit more thematically.

 

PAGE 60: (Alex and Kozar reunite) - Dialogue between Kozar and Alex changed.

Notice a trend here? Also, since the "antagonist" was right there, I tried to shorten the dialogue a bit.

 

From here on out, the film is 100% locked in. Not one more thing is going to change, and you can hold me to it.

[YM!]

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I see @Spaghetti has stopped stealing from the MCU but Disney live action remakes as well.

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Seriously I can’t be the only one who thought of this when Tarek died.

 

 

 

Edited July 13, 2019 by YourMother the Edgelord

[Ezen Baklattan]

49 minutes ago, YourMother the Edgelord said:

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I see @Spaghetti has stopped stealing from the MCU but Disney live action remakes as well.

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Seriously I can’t be the only one who thought of this when Tarek died.

 

 

 

 

Being ripped apart by a lethal species thought to be goofy? After killing the protagonist's "father"? I see it.

 

Although I'd love TLK even more if Ed dropped the F-bomb before it went down.

[Ezen Baklattan]

@cookie @4815162342 @Ethan Hunt @SLAM! @YourMother the Edgelord @Reddroast @Xillix

 

I saw that in your reviews, a few criticisms popped up across the board. While I'm very happy with the reception so far, I wanted to explain what was going on a bit more in one spot:

 

IF YOU HAVE NOT READ THE MOVIE YET, MASSIVE SPOILERS BELOW:

 

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Okay, so I'm gonna address these bit by bit:

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On it being pretty long and overstuffed:

 

Okay....willing to admit that I kinda got carried away here. I wanted to create a huge, sprawling epic that was large in scope, story, and so on. I figured this send-off would be a fun way to carry out that project. I also wanted to showcase something that, even if the focus was one a few characters, spanned the entire universe and connected so many souls (many moments in this, like the oscillator sequence, reinforce this notion). There's a lot going on, but that said...I think it feels justified in the plot.

 

That the film spends a bit too much time on these smaller elements and kinda distract from the main characters is a fair criticism, but I will admit that for most of them, they develop towards a solid conclusion in and of itself.  The climax was also a bit of a creative gamble, showing different stages with various moving parts. The Soltarans *not* being the technical final boss of the movie I actually wanted to try as a bit of a creative risk. Furthermore, I do think that both of these aspects also speak to one of the main themes of the movie, which I'll get to later.

 

On Altren, Dhagom, and how they fit into things:

 

Given the sudden shift of cosmic scale, it would make sense that Alex and her ilk come across all kinds of new characters. I wanted to call out Dhaghom and Altren especially:

• As we opened the cosmic scale, I wanted to showcase different infinite from their galaxy, veering from the good (Alex and Mevino) to the....less so. Altren is a capable leader, but she was always in it not to eliminate this hierarchy of power but to keep it all to herself. Within the hierarcy and order she sets up even within the Presidio of Infinity, these elements build until the finale, and also tie into the ending pretty well.
• Dhagom was cited as kinda superfluous, and while he's basically there as a hired gun for Altren, I again like the idea of showcasing an infinite from another galaxy who was truly awful and vile. I basically include him in the plot not for who the character is, but honestly what they represent. (Plus David Tennant in patchwork makeup is cool as fuck, don't tell me otherwise)

Altren and Dhagom feel essential to the world building and ultimate thematic conclusion of this movie, as well as Kozar and Aera tbh. Kozar is maybe one of the kindest and most empathic characters in the franchise, and his problems stem from his inability to accept his own limits and worry if he is doing enough, stemming from a somewhat troubled childhood. Kozar and Aera have stood by Alex's side from the start, staying by her even without her powers. It's almost part of what makes the ending so emotional to me and almost builds the two as foils, namely Altren and Kozar (powerful, seemingly kind leaders with different goals and perspectives) and Dhagom and Aera (two weird and wacky, yet powerful heroes)

 

Frankly, I think the most extraneous character might be Iphanya. I felt the need to add more Soltaran characters as we build out the world, but she's basically a Dheamus clone. Props to @YourMother the Edgelord for being the one to point this out, lol.

 

I could have done more with Kozar, to be honest, but his good-heartedness has always been his defining character, and it affects all those around him, from Alex to Xevarre.

 

Either way, they tie into the ending which stands as a bit of a metaphor for destroying social hierarchies and building new worlds based on inclusive diversity, equality of power, and being able to move forward as a community - whether on a local or cosmic scale. All that had been taken could not be fixed easily (i.e. the purification) but all might not be lost.

 

This is also why I understand the main-stay criticism but also think that while the heroic actions of a few are important, this is a story much, much bigger than a group of heroes. It's about how, at its core, life is worth fighting for and supporting each other, and we must strive to create a world of equality, empathy, justice, and hope. I didn't want to create an ending that would just showcase the heroes all going home, maybe with a few casualties but ultimately with little in the world changing.

 

Naryani's heel-face turn:

 

Naryani was a bit of a trickier character to write, since a common criticism was that she made her heel-face turn really quickly. I honestly kind of disagree with this for a few reasons:

• A lot of the groundwork for this change is carried over from Beyond the Sky. Her evil actions in Rising are reframed when we find out she was trying to save her own galaxy. By the time she finds herself once again, realizing that she had failed and destroyed her own galaxy indirectly, she falls into a despair that begins at the conclusion of Beyond the Sky and into the start of A Hero's Promise. The penultimate film ultimately sets her up as a tragic villain, but the circumstances force her to be a hero.
• Alex (and eventually Kozar) play a major role in helping her to open up again so she can join the resistance and regain her heroic status. She starts to do so during the first Soltaran blitz of the film, having hid herself away in depression and shame prior. You could argue that Alex is kind of pushing her, but Naryani soon finds a spot of hope and goodness by the time the second half is over, a bit like how Nebula becomes a heroine during Infinity War, and she's desparate to cling onto it and escape her past.
• The scene with Alex and Naryani after the resistance based in destroyed is a major arc of development for her, imo. She refuses to fall into despair again. She had learned from Alex that the past doesn't have to shape her - they need to move forward and set things right.

As with Kozar, it does take a bit of time for people to forgive Naryani, even with the circumstances, but her actions and desperation to be on the right side once again define her arc and let her have a powerful conclusion. To that point, she the only survivor of the four main adults (Katherine, Ezen, Everett, Naryani) in the saga and feels more obligated to take on a caring, almost motherly role for Alex. Their relationship has become based on mutual trust and genuine care for each other.

 

I got a Rockwell:

 

While I'm more able to defend Naryani (and to a slightly lesser extent Altren and Dhagom's development), I will admit...Everett is a bit harder for me. And I have a reason for this. Kind of a silly one, but I'm going to be fully transparent.

 

Everett was never really a character I felt satisfied with, and I kept shifting direction on how I wanted to take him, even between sequels. Given Homeward, I was almost ready to never mention his name ever again, but with Beyond the Sky, I thought I had a cool idea to develop his plot further (and shape an interesting wrinkle into the plot.)

 

I had a lot of ideas for Everett in this, but a lot of them had to get shut down because of how awkwardly they'd fit into the plot or how it would end up contradicting a lot of what was established in the prior films. And given the post-credits scene of BTS, I knew he *HAD* to be in this movie. The core of what I gave him is far from perfect, but I think it's sufficient. Like Naryani, he's ridden with guilt and tries to run away from his problems. However, unlike how she eventually warms up to embrace her inner heroine, Everett tries to run away and skulk out the rest of his life in shame. He clearly owed Alex (and the audience) an explanation of what happened in Homeward, but it's clear he was racked with shame and guilt, maybe even moreso than Naryani.

 

I tried to frame his exposition dump to Alex in a bit more of a heartbreaking manner, however. Recall this line he tells Alex after giving her the infodump:

 

I rehearsed this meeting for maybe years on end. I always intended for it to be our first and final reunion.

 

With this, I kind of made a darker implication here....Everett had waited for Alex to finally see him. He doesn't beg for forgiveness, but he gives her the info she needs and sends her on her way. He had done enough to forgive himself in this mortal world, and he was ready to let himself die alone on that asteroid.

 

Even when he does agree to come, notice how he takes off Zero's saddle just before the scene ends.

 

He was ready to join Alex in battle...and he was fully prepared to die for doing so. However, notice his actions in the finale. He mainly does two things in the final battle: He takes out the man who killed his wife and closest friend while joining Naryani in fighting Dhagom. He puts himself in danger's way for his own revenge, but also tries to clear the air with Naryani before they separate. He's deliberately trying to enter a position where he can die a hero.

 

However, remember that he manages to fight and dispatch Dhagom. He feels life again. Forgiveness. He might be able to go back to living a good, kind life. If Naryani could, maybe he could as well. This adds a cruel irony to his death when Dhagom ends up shooting him in the back anyway. However, he still finds himself at peace and gains closure with his daughter, but perhaps forgave himself far too late.

 

 

Whether or not these points would have been better conveyed in a trilogy is unfortunately outside my control right now, but I wanted to take this chance to kind of explain some of the main gripes people had with this movie in the hope that you might see things in a new light. I know most of you really liked the movie, and I am truly grateful for that, but thinking about it, I am truly proud of this film (and also it'll likely be in my Top 5 of the year just to be fully transparent )

 

I don't expect these to solve every single problem, but I did want to explain my headspace a bit more, and I thank you for giving me the chance.

 

 

Edited October 6, 2019 by Spaghetti